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RE: WACO YMF - 8/26/2007 9:42 PM

Stickbuilder

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Right colors, wrong pattern.....I'm thinking about a scollopped trim scheme, somewhat as you did yours, but just a little different. I have been looking at some of the pictures that can be found, and although I hate to do something that is not true to scale, I just may have to to that on this one. I wish that I had a picture of the one that my Grandfather owned. I would do that one, but as far as I know, no photo exists of that one. After he passed on, the airplanes were sold, and went to different parts of the country. The Monocoupe went to Ohio, and I have since met the (now) owner of that one. I'm the oldest living person in that family, so there is no one else to ask. I think that the WACO went west, but I have not a clue as to where. The Cub is still in Tennessee, and is now on floats. Two out of three ain't bad.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/26/2007 10:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Right colors, wrong pattern.....I'm thinking about a scollopped trim scheme, somewhat as you did yours, but just a little different. I have been looking at some of the pictures that can be found, and although I hate to do something that is not true to scale, I just may have to to that on this one. I wish that I had a picture of the one that my Grandfather owned. I would do that one, but as far as I know, no photo exists of that one. After he passed on, the airplanes were sold, and went to different parts of the country. The Monocoupe went to Ohio, and I have since met the (now) owner of that one. I'm the oldest living person in that family, so there is no one else to ask. I think that the WACO went west, but I have not a clue as to where. The Cub is still in Tennessee, and is now on floats. Two out of three ain't bad.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Masterchief --
You probably already know this, but if you know the Waco's "N" number, you can try to look it up on the FAA's website. If it's still registered under that number, it'll be on there....

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/27/2007 12:49 AM

khodges

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

and although I hate to do something that is not true to scale, I just may have to to that on this one.

Man, do I understand where you're coming from; I looked at paint schemes 'til I was cross-eyed, before seeing the one I liked. I know there are patterns that are more or less popular to one type or another, but I don't think there really IS one that isn't 'true to scale'. The scallops on wings , cowl and wheel pants/gear fairings vary a bunch from one plane to another. Some are scalloped top and bottom on the wings, some on top only; the scallops vary in width and depth, and some don't have scallops at all. Some have the double stripe down the fuse side, some have a wider, single stripe, some have a panel of a different color. Unless you planned to compete in Scale Masters or Top Gun, where you were modeling a specific tail#, I don't think you could be "faulted" for whatever variation on some pattern you've seen somewhere. I even saw a pic of a YMF with a sunburst pattern (like a Pitts or Decathalon), and the pic looked like it was from back in the '50s or early '60s, given the dress of the people and some of the cars in the photo.

I chose my scheme maybe more for its departure from what you see in most photos than for any other reason. I didn't copy it exactly (I didn't reproduce the scallops on the wing undersides), but I can still say that this was representative of the type for the era. You can take a lot of liberty with a variation on any number of schemes and still be correct. Just don't try to make it look like a Cessna

Hey, Waco Joe, what say you regarding Waco paint scheme authenticity; you out there, Bro?

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/27/2007 3:14 AM

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Mobyal,

I don't know the N-number of the WACO My Grandfather died when I was 10 years old. The WACO left soon after, and the way I found the Monocoupe was purely by accident. I saw one at a fly-in and found the owner. We got to talking, and I told him about the one that Grandfather had. Turns out that he knew the history of his, and it happened to be the one. The Cub has been close to home the entire time, so that one wasn't a problem.

Ken,

I think that I will do the scallops on top and bottom of both wings, the V-stab, the H-stab, gear legs, and wheel pants. I'm not sure how I'll do the cowl, but with all the other scallops, the cowl may look a tad busy with additional scallops.

I got the cowl ring cut and installed and blended today. That doesn't sound like much, but it's a pretty fierce job. Final sanding on the fuse, and it's covering time....

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/27/2007 4:41 AM

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Bill,

Here are a few of the colour schemes from the Fly In (The YMF (NC14081) is not pictured here, plenty in previous posts). They may help you design your scallops and other items for the paint scheme.

1. UPF-7 (NC 29303) White with Dark Blue (not quite Navy Blue) trim and gold pinstripe. Large scallops with loonngg points between.
2. UBA (NC 13041) Green on Dark Green, Red pinstripe, Silver wings. Small scallops on leading edge of landing gear fairings and rudder. Black wing numbers with red pinstripe outline. Black interplane struts. Another view of the same plane Ken showed.
3. UPF-7 (NC 39727) Green and Yellow, gold Pinstripes. No scallops. Note the metal surfaces are darker than the fabric. Jerry said the paint on the fabric faded (same paint and system)
4. UPF-7 (NC 32158) Brown and Yellow Cream with Copper pinstripes. Medium scallops
5. QCF (NC 9220J) Lt. Cream with Dark Red trim and black pinstripe separation line. Medium scallops. Note side stripe is a Hawks Beak start instead of the Horseshoe Crab. Also note wing tip taper on underside of wing.
6. UBF-2 (NC 2091K) Lt Cream with Brown and Red pinstripe, similar side stripe to QCF, medium scallops. Also note the back of the prop is painted flat black. (HARM A/C, can get more pictures if needed).
7. UBF-7 (NC 155Y) Texaco, Red with White trim, Black pinstripes. Unique paint job for advertising, one of a kind test plane for fuel. Small scallops on the Cowl, Rudder and Wheel Pants, no scallops on wings. (HARM A/C)
8. UBF-7 (NC 39748 – Waco Joe’s) Santa Fe Red Daytona White Trim with Gold pinstripes. Medium scallops, short point. Thanks to Joe for the exact colour info.

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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 8/28/2007 7:36 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/27/2007 4:10 PM

Stickbuilder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Okay, Here is the roster to date.

WACO BROTHERHOOD MEMBERSHIP:

#1 stickbuilder
#2 Hughes500
#3 Jim Henley
#4 mmattockx
#5 CTflyboy
#6 michaelj2k
#7 Ronj10
#8 gwulle
#9 jim schroer
#10 Skinny Bob
#11 Bart5495
#12 Pimmnz
#13 HarryJ
No. 14 Old Git
#15 ChrisMH
#16 Nerevar
#17 Ricatic
#18 Clay H.
#19 Tripp2Loo
#20 KHodges
#21 Bill Hogue (WACO One)
#22 Mangolo (Waldo)
#23 av8ter
#24 yel914
#25 damifino
#26 skylarkmk1
#27 Jacque
#28 Edwin
#29 AROPLANE
#30 CubNut (Anthony)
#31 BQuartucy (Bob Q)
#32 AERORON
#33 funkymusic
#34 Live Wire (Larry)
#35 obo (Bob)
#36 Jackk36 (Jack)
#37 fatherrooster (Jim)
#38 Ilikebipes
#39 Kestrel0222
#40 CROWMAN17 (Marc)
#41 redcesar
#42 S. Christensen (Scott)
#43 Bill Deidrich
#44 Mike Barbee
#45 mrdhud (Dan Hudson)
#46 SoCalSal
#47 Todd (NightStalker)
#48 argon (Bob Gonzalez)
#49 mango 12 (Scott)
#50 skyjet 1
#51 ZIG
#52 Didg
#53 MarvinE255 (DOC)
#54 Joe Norris (Full Scale WACO Pilot)
#55 vasek
#56 SuperCub Man (Jim)
#57 Black Drape (Ron)
#58 aminiet (Angel Minet)
#59 Snowball
#60 doc zinger
#61 jagnweiner (Scott)
#62 Meesh (Bob)
#63 BigBoy99 (Bernie)
#64 stifts (Steve)

#66 Mobyal

#69 trlambsr

#77 tomcraig

#100 nine o nine (Mitch Epstein)

WACO Sisterhood Roster:

S-1 Janelle (Lady Stickbuilder)
S-2 Sissy Nightstalker
S-3 Barb Barbee
S-4 LadyMango (Lynda)

Bill, AMA 4720
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it's update time

< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 9/5/2007 12:18 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/28/2007 6:49 PM

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Bill,

Another thought is to go to the National Waco Club site http://www.nationalwacoclub.com/ and look at the "F3F5" photo album. Most pictures are black and white, with a few color pictures, quite a few picture are different views of the same A/C. With out direct information, the colors would be an educated guess or WAG. Thats what happened to Ken, he took a WAG and painted his Cream and Red (looks good as painted Ken) and later found out it was actually White and Dark Blue. You could do the same plane Ken did, NC 14132, only in one of its other color schemes such as yellow with red trim. Or do NC 86 Y, it had a color scheme pattern similar to the UBF "Texaco" above.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 8/28/2007 7:33 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/28/2007 7:18 PM

Stickbuilder

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I've been to that site and went again. The closest thing to what I want, is the scheme that khodges is currently using. This is a black and white photo, so the dark color could be anything...

. I do kind of like the 1940 UPF (NC29328), but It's still not there.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/28/2007 7:24 PM

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Ken (khodges) and others,

Take a look at the National Waco Clubs 2007 Reunion Photos. Many of the Wacos at the American Waco Club Fly In the week before were also there. I saw Rich's 1929 ASO (Black and Silver), Dave's 1930 ASO (#26), Bill's YKS (Sat. Breakfast Site), Phill's UBA (Green on Green), The UKC, UEC, the Grey/Blue YKS-6 and maybe another one or 2. One UPF-7 had a color scheme very similar to to Jerry's Green and Yellow, but this one had scallops where Jerry did not. Compare this shot of Jerry's to the one (NC 29328) on the NWC site. Some good pictures.

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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 8/28/2007 7:40 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/28/2007 8:08 PM

skylarkmk1

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Bill,

During the AWC Fly In, Ken and I had the opportunity to talk with Andy Heins, who owns most of the B/W pictures on the NWC site. He said that NC 14132 was at his field, was waiting restoration (currently un-flyable) and that the colors were actually White with Dark Blue. You could attempt to WAG the colors to get it painted right away. Or you could try to track down the owners and see what the colors were (FAA inquiry, write a letter to listed owner, etc.), but that could take some time. With a combined total of only about 36 of UMFs and YMFs built during the 1930s, your chances have been reduced on finding the authentic color scheme you want. The Waco Classic Aircraft Company has built quite a few more of the newer YMFs (35-39 Classics and 80+ Supers), so that may be another source for a color scheme. (Remember the Supers are longer and wider than the Originals and Classics for scale fidelity).

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/28/2007 8:18 PM

Stickbuilder

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All that, and the fact that they were often repainted, and re-covered and repainted over the years. Who knows what is correct and what is not. I may just SWAG the color and go with the one that I like.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 1:09 AM

khodges

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Skylark, and others--check this out. Here's a story of the DH-4's trip to OshKosh, on Poplar Grove Airport's website.

www.poplargroveairmotive.com/Happenings/Pictures/Index.html

Lots of pictures and a detailed story. Click on the "Great Air Trips" where the pic of the DH-4 tail is.

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< Message edited by khodges -- 8/29/2007 1:49 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 1:55 AM

khodges

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

All that, and the fact that they were often repainted, and re-covered and repainted over the years. Who knows what is correct and what is not. I may just SWAG the color and go with the one that I like.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Bill, this is kind of what I was getting at. I saw a picture a while back, another B&W, of a similar scheme to mine, but can't seem to locate it again. I'll keep looking, though. It's got some similar scallops, but it's not the run-of-the-mill Waco patterns that most modelers use. There is a nice picture of a navy blue and pastel blue Waco on the website Skylark mentioned, the colors look nice together.

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 3:59 AM

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Original ? 1933 Crashed and killed Pilot in Oklahoma.

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 4:07 AM

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I haven't been able to locate the post - but it was just a few days ago (I think) - and it mentioned the quality of the FG cowl and wheel pants from Precision FG Products for the 1/5th Scale Waco. The posts said they had quite a few "pin holes" as well as the pants being a little too wide for the scale. Is there another place to order these items? Since I will be ordering three of each I would like to make sure I'm getting a good product! I hate ordering for other people as I know I will feel guilty if the product is not up to snuff!!
Still pounding out the corrugated aluminum aileron panels. Boy they look good. Also had a chance to crawl all over (figure of speach) my subject Waco today. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera with me as it was a last minute invitation. But it showed me a lot of things that I had only seen in this thread. For example, all the screws on this aircraft were philips head and I didn't know the rear cockpit had leather padding sewn around the cockpit combing (spelling?) This is going to be a lot of fun!! From now on I carry my camera with me at all times!!

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 4:16 AM

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Post #3375 stick. I haven't heard of Fiberglass Specialist's though

I have heard that about Precision. All that old blue polyester resin.

http://www.precision-fiberglass-prod.com/

At Fiberglass Specialties that will never happen. All West Systems Epoxy glass parts. I have dozens of the epoxy glass parts. No holes. The width is right on compared to Pica parts.

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/

Cheers, John

< Message edited by JoeAverage -- 8/29/2007 4:22 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 4:19 AM

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Ken,

Thanks for the link to the article of the DH-4 written by Don Parsons. I had had the brief story from Glenn, the article is good and expands on what Glenn told me.

The Waco with a similar paint job to yours can be found in the F-2 Album on the NWC site. See pictures 185 (B/W) and 188 (color, White with Orange/Red trim) of UBF-2 NC 13446.

Also see pictures 91-97 of QCF-2 NC 12428 (pictured flying above with the DH-4) in a different paint job. It was the Grand Champion at Oshkosh this year and has come a long way from the way it was pictured in picts 96-97.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 8/29/2007 4:38 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 5:17 AM

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Jim Henley
Since you were here I have not touched the Waco but I am going to try to have it in the air before the 15 & 16 of Sept. SMAA fun fly. Not all the fine thing that a full scale hase but close

Just wnt to make sure it fly's

And to all other brothers I will keep you posted

O yes I am going to have to put the old girl on the scales to see how fat she got

Then see if i have horse anough to pull her

< Message edited by RC Outlaw -- 8/29/2007 5:26 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 6:59 AM

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Ken,

Also take a look at the RNF, INF ... Album. Two RNFs, NC 631Y (page 3) has a similar fuselage trim and NC 139Y (page 2) has a similar pattern and an inverted pattern (the scallop pattern tapers up on the fuselage instead of down like yours).

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 8/29/2007 7:00 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 7:07 AM

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Jim,

The post that mentioned the cowl and wheel pants referred to those supplied by Fiberglass Specialists. I cut a little over 1/4" out of the wheel pants, and reglassed them together. Before they allowed about 3/8" clearance on each side of the tire (Sullivan 4" skylites) and now they are closer to 1/8" They still have an issue with pin holes and voids, but auto body putty takes care of this. Stan's FiberTech parts are much smoother, but as with those from F/S, the cowls are all for the UMF variant.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 7:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeAverage

http://www.precision-fiberglass-prod.com/

At Fiberglass Specialties that will never happen. All West Systems Epoxy glass parts. I have dozens of the epoxy glass parts. No holes. The width is right on compared to Pica parts.

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/

Cheers, John

John - Thanks for that. I thought the post was about FG Specialties. I am relieved to see it wasn't and that their quality is excellent.

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 3:42 PM

Stickbuilder

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SCM,

If you would like, I can send you the parts that were removed from the wheel pants from their part #70 wheel pants. You can judge for yourself if they have voids or pin holes.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 4:19 PM

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Thanks very much for that Bill, but since they are the only game in town, I guess I'll be going their way.

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 5:36 PM

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Just get some auto body putty (the tan stuff) it dries quickly, and sands out very well. You will like it. The Pica pants (built up wood) are the same width as those from F/S, but they are not scale, and you nnned to section them to look right. They appear chubby on the plane. I guess they made them this way to accomodate the old Veco or Trexler airwheels. The old perfect wheels would have been better. The Slykight aluminum hub wheels from Sullivan are more scale in width. I use the 4" version on all of mine.

On the cowling, the only one that they offer is for the UMF (uses the paired blisters). If you need one for the YMF, you need to either find an old one from PICA, or build your own.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/29/2007 7:47 PM

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Well that's a bummer!! I actually had a pix of the FG Spec. cowl (below) and didn't notice the blister arrangement. Now we'll have to think this through again! There's no way I would be able to create my own FG cowl. So maybe I can't model the local Waco and will only be able to use it for detail. Hmmmm! I see compromises ahead!!

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Jim, MAAC #5343
WACO Brotherhood #56

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(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 3400

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