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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 5:15 AM   
JoeAverage



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Hello John,

You're right about the triangle. Because of it's sporty appearance I thought "Texaco" but the ownership didn't jive. It could have been, and would make sense that the triangle and enclosed cockpit may be a Civil Air Patrol role. ??? Another example shown.
I'm sure someone will know for sure and advise.

John

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< Message edited by JoeAverage -- 11/20/2007 5:20 AM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 5:36 AM   
skylarkmk1



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John,

The Civil Air Patrol emblem is a good possibility with the Dark Blue background (looks Black in the B&W photo). Since the registration was cancelled in 1945, I feel the chances of conformation is slim to none.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 11/20/2007 5:37 AM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 5:57 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

John,

The Civil Air Patrol emblem is a good possibility with the Dark Blue background (looks Black in the B&W photo). Since the registration was cancelled in 1945, I feel the chances of conformation is slim to none.

The Civil Air Patrol gets it's marching orders out of Scott AFB. Maybe someone there has info, If that fails, the CAP museum is at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery AL. Chances are they would have information on all CAP aircraft, especially those that were used as patrol aircraft during WWII.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 6:38 AM   
Hughes500E



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Thanks Jim, I'll look into that.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 6:41 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Bill,

Thanks for the CAP info, I'll start digging. I felt and still feel that voluntary conformation is doubtful, but with the info you have provided, there is a good chance that a record exits that may prove that UMF NC14687 was a member of the CAP.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 1:52 PM   
Stickbuilder



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There were hundreds of civilian owned airplanes that were used for patrol aircraft during WW II. One was credited with sinking a U-Boat off the Atlantic coast. Who knows how many other ships were scared-off because of them. They pretty much provided our coast lines with anti-submarine patrols for the entire war. Heck, they dang near sank one of ours.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 4:24 PM   
mango12


 

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I live about two hours from Maxwell AFB. If they do have any records of a Waco being used by the CAP, I'll be glad to make the drive for more research, if it is any help.
Scott


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 4:36 PM   
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Hi Skylark1

See http://history.nhq.cap.gov/historical_civil_air_patrol_airc.htm regarding General Memorandum-29, May 25 1942. "...now required the removal of the red three bladed propellor from the CAP aircraft emblem on all airfraft assigned [to Costal Patrol]. The official CP insignia now consisted of a blue circle with white isosceles triangle was the only authorized insignia for CAP-CP aircraft. This was in keeping with the current practice of the AAF to avoid confusion with Japanese emblem. This directive and practice remained in effect until the Costal Patrol units were disbanded in 1945."

Red 1
[formerly LtC, Historian, Maryland Wing, Civil Air Patrol]

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 5:44 PM   
red1


 

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Hi JoeAverage,

See my post above. Also, the caption on your photo reads as follows: "NC14000 is a 1937 Waco YKC mc/n that is owned by Byron and Jeannie Hight of San Jose. As this plane was once used by the Civil Air Patrol to patrol for enemy submarines, Byron has recently added CAP [Costal Patrol ] markings and is looking for a shackle, for his dummy bomb."

I have forwarded this photo to Col. Leonard Blascovich, CAP National Historian, asking if he knows of any CAP CP AC registration list.

Red 1 [aka Don Borton]
AMA IMAA
Waco Brotherhood #72


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 9:15 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Don,

Thanks for the link to the CAP emblem information. As I read it, my interpretation is that only the Coastal Patrol Aircraft had the Red Propeller deleted and all other aircraft flying missions in the interior of the US retained the red propeller.

If Col. Blascovich does have a listing of CAP A/C used during the war and there is a link, could you please post it? My search so far has found links to current activities, State Wings and other stuff, but not to historical info (except for the history on the CAP Museum pages) such as aircraft and/or personnel listings.

Also ask Col. Blascovich about 1935 Waco UMF, NC 14687, s/n 4215. Its registry was cancelled on Jan 16, 1945, no reason given.

As you were the Historian for the Maryland CAP Wing, you may have connections to info that is hard to come by for those not connected with CAP. Thanks for any info you can provide.


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 10:15 PM   
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So everyone knows :
Aircraft Modelers Research is bringing back the most famous 33% and 40% Waco kits. Shipping to start in February 2008, ready to take your order now. The new owner is particulary proud of its new product : lighter then the previous and more fiberglass parts.


Michel Normandin

Waco Brotherhood #78

< Message edited by michou41a -- 11/20/2007 10:18 PM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 10:33 PM   
red1


 

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Skylarkmk1





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RE: WACO YMF - 11/20/2007 10:34 PM   
red1


 

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Skylarkmk1,

Let's try that again. Wilco.

Red 1

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 12:05 AM   
Tony V.


 

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Damifino,
Did you ever come up with paint masks for the cowl...

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 12:06 AM   
BigBoy99


 

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Hi Guys,
does anybody have files in the format .svg = scalable vector graphics, for the decals of a YMF-5?
I have one in the .dwg format , but I cannot convert them. Also possible is jpeg. They must be compatible with Corel Draw.

Regards
Bernie

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 12:32 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Bernie,

Check back on page 175, post # 4357 and go to the website posted. After you click on the down load button for the Waco logo, another page comes up that has Corel Draw listed. If Corel can open an .EPS file (Encapsulated Postscript file) you are good to go. On pages 175-176 the are more logos listed and posted. If any I have posted can be of use (.jpg format) send me a PM.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 1:36 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeAverage


WacoJoe,

Sorry I can't post the photo as it can't be downloaded but the Waco Club has a beautiful 1935 UMF-5 NC14687 posted on their site with a first rate canopy conversion done to it. (I took a photo of it off my monitor though) It looks like an old photo so maybe the factory had something to do with it. Originally sold to Ms. Hope Noyes Aviation. C.C. Hicksville, L.I. N.Y. I don't know what the C.C. means in the production record unless it has something to do with Custom Canopy.

Edit This looks like one of Texaco's AC at one time as well. It's c/n is 4215. It looks like it met it's end on or before 1945. It has not been redesignated. Records show c/n 4214 is a YMF-5 and still Airworthy.

Would you know if Waco had it's own factory in Ft. Erie, Ontario, Canada or if someone like Fleet was building them under licence? I was surprised to find out recently that there were Canadian built Wacos. The upper right corner of the one cover shows that this Waco was built in Fort Erie, Ontario. The other cover cuts off the name of Canadian City with Waco plant.



Hi John,

Waco was all about building aircraft to customer specifications, so they did a lot of custom and one-off stuff. That being the case, it's very possible that they did the canopy installation on the YMF-5 that you're referring to. I've just never seen any documentation of it is all. That certainly doesn't hold a lot of water because there are several folks who are much more well versed on the history of Waco than I am. But if the factory did it, it's a pretty well kept secret!!

I have no knowledge of Waco building aircraft in Ontario Canada, but again that is not a guarantee that it didn't happen. My guess is that it may have been a license agreement situation. I'll have to see what I can find out about that. Someone on the National Waco Club forum will have the scoop.

Cheers!

Joe
WB #54


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 2:29 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBoy99

Hi Guys,
does anybody have files in the format .svg = scalable vector graphics, for the decals of a YMF-5?
I have one in the .dwg format , but I cannot convert them. Also possible is jpeg. They must be compatible with Corel Draw.

Regards
Bernie


Bernie,

I just sent as set for the 1/5th scale version to damifino. He is looking into getting them scanned for reproduction. It should be simple for them to enlarge them to 25% size.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 5:09 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Okay, Here is the roster to date.

WACO BROTHERHOOD MEMBERSHIP:

#1 stickbuilder
#2 Hughes500
#3 Jim Henley
#4 mmattockx
#5 CTflyboy
#6 michaelj2k
#7 Ronj10
#8 gwulle
#9 jim schroer
#10 Skinny Bob
#11 Bart5495
#12 Pimmnz
#13 HarryJ
No. 14 Old Git
#15 ChrisMH
#16 Nerevar
#17 Ricatic
#18 Clay H.
#19 Tripp2Loo
#20 KHodges
#21 Bill Hogue (WACO One)
#22 Mangolo (Waldo)
#23 av8ter
#24 yel914
#25 damifino
#26 skylarkmk1
#27 Jacque
#28 Edwin
#29 AROPLANE
#30 CubNut (Anthony)
#31 BQuartucy (Bob Q)
#32 AERORON
#33 funkymusic
#34 Live Wire (Larry)
#35 obo (Bob)
#36 Jackk36 (Jack)
#37 fatherrooster (Jim)
#38 Ilikebipes
#39 Kestrel0222
#40 CROWMAN17 (Marc)
#41 redcesar
#42 S. Christensen (Scott)
#43 Bill Deidrich
#44 Mike Barbee
#45 mrdhud (Dan Hudson)
#46 SoCalSal
#47 Todd (NightStalker)
#48 argon (Bob Gonzalez)
#49 mango 12 (Scott)
#50 skyjet 1
#51 ZIG
#52 Didg
#53 MarvinE255 (DOC)
#54 Joe Norris (Full Scale WACO Pilot)
#55 vasek
#56 SuperCub Man (Jim)
#57 Black Drape (Ron)
#58 aminiet (Angel Minet)
#59 Snowball
#60 doc zinger
#61 jagnweiner (Scott)
#62 Meesh (Bob)
#63 BigBoy99 (Bernie)
#64 stifts (Steve)
#65 RCWalker (Wallace)
#66 Mobyal
#67 lazyace
#68 bladerunner1955 (Don)
#69 trlambsr
#70 Big Bird (Ken)
#71 Tony V (Tony)
#72 red 1
#73 412t1 (Sean)
#74 Mr Lucky (Ben Warner)
#75 RICKSTUBBZ (Rick Stubblefield)
#76 ffdg (Fred)
#77 tomcraig
#78 Michou41a Michel
#79 Watzscale (Dick Watz)
#80 Devens
#81 msilvestro (Mark)
#82 Cheechukranch (Lewis)
#83 kruzin55

#100 nine o nine (Mitch Epstein)



WACO Sisterhood Roster:

S-1 Janelle (Lady Stickbuilder)
S-2 Sissy Nightstalker
S-3 Barb Barbee
S-4 LadyMango (Lynda)


Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1








< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 11/27/2007 4:48 PM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 5:10 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hughes500E



Anyone know of a "for looks" option that would be acceptable?



Hughes, I used a silver elastic cord, probably the same "beading cord" that Jim used on his. It's maybe 0.10 inch diameter unstretched, and a foot long piece will stretch to almost 2 feet. Works very well, from three feet away you can't tell it's not flat, and if you need something easy to remove for assembly/disassembly at the field, it's perfect.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 5:44 AM   
JoeAverage



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quote:

ORIGINAL: WacoJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeAverage


WacoJoe,

Sorry I can't post the photo as it can't be downloaded but the Waco Club has a beautiful 1935 UMF-5 NC14687 posted on their site with a first rate canopy conversion done to it. (I took a photo of it off my monitor though) It looks like an old photo so maybe the factory had something to do with it. Originally sold to Ms. Hope Noyes Aviation. C.C. Hicksville, L.I. N.Y. I don't know what the C.C. means in the production record unless it has something to do with Custom Canopy.

Edit This looks like one of Texaco's AC at one time as well. It's c/n is 4215. It looks like it met it's end on or before 1945. It has not been redesignated. Records show c/n 4214 is a YMF-5 and still Airworthy.

Would you know if Waco had it's own factory in Ft. Erie, Ontario, Canada or if someone like Fleet was building them under licence? I was surprised to find out recently that there were Canadian built Wacos. The upper right corner of the one cover shows that this Waco was built in Fort Erie, Ontario. The other cover cuts off the name of Canadian City with Waco plant.



Hi John,

Waco was all about building aircraft to customer specifications, so they did a lot of custom and one-off stuff. That being the case, it's very possible that they did the canopy installation on the YMF-5 that you're referring to. I've just never seen any documentation of it is all. That certainly doesn't hold a lot of water because there are several folks who are much more well versed on the history of Waco than I am. But if the factory did it, it's a pretty well kept secret!!

I have no knowledge of Waco building aircraft in Ontario Canada, but again that is not a guarantee that it didn't happen. My guess is that it may have been a license agreement situation. I'll have to see what I can find out about that. Someone on the National Waco Club forum will have the scoop.

Cheers!

Joe
WB #54



WacoJoe,

I should have posted the other 2 pics along with the enclosed UMF-5 in post 4474 seperately. The UMF-5 diverted attention from the Waco News pages that mention the Canadian Waco's.

They aree news letter pics I took off eBay. While I was keenly interested I left those items for "Real" Waco guys.

NC 14687 would make a great model subject for someone. Skylark made note of several modifications that eluded me. Given the relatively short life of Waco I would, if I were a betting man, wager that Waco did the work before it left the factory. My production records show that it was also the last UMF-5 produced. c/n 4215.

I'll check to see if there were any U/YMF-3/5 with a higher c/n.

EDIT: There is no original UMF or YMF models listed by the FAA with a serial number exceeding 4215. YMF-5 c/n 4214 N14607 is still airworthy. c/n 4213 N14128 still airworthy. YMF-5 c/n 4212 has been deregistered.

Cheers, John


< Message edited by JoeAverage -- 11/21/2007 6:11 AM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 6:37 AM   
JoeAverage



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quote:

ORIGINAL: red1

Hi JoeAverage,

See my post above. Also, the caption on your photo reads as follows: "NC14000 is a 1937 Waco YKC mc/n that is owned by Byron and Jeannie Hight of San Jose. As this plane was once used by the Civil Air Patrol to patrol for enemy submarines, Byron has recently added CAP [Costal Patrol ] markings and is looking for a shackle, for his dummy bomb."

I have forwarded this photo to Col. Leonard Blascovich, CAP National Historian, asking if he knows of any CAP CP AC registration list.

Red 1 [aka Don Borton]
AMA IMAA
Waco Brotherhood #72



Don,

Thank you for your efforts on our behalf to find out more. I was responding to another members query. I still spent 5 hours on the Google this morning going through CAP related material. While there was a shortage of pictures there were several Waco designations mentioned that I had never heard of before. I couldn't believe the amount of info on the topic.

The history is a fascinating component of the modelling for every member I've read. These objects that inspire us make us "Renaissance Men" for sure. It will take a mountain of paper records and a fellow like Col. Leonard Blascovich to enlighten further if possible. With the number of volunteers that Bill said there were, we may never know.

I'd love to know story of c/n 4215. Maybe Andy Heins may know. Any Waco Club members out there that may get his assistance? I have already asked him my share of questions.

Thanks, John

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 7:19 AM   
JoeAverage



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Make scale rigging
Model Airplane News, Apr 2002 by Ziroli, Nick Sr
HOW TO:

Easy non-functional flying wires

It isn't difficult to make scale rigging and flying wires for biplanes. The method described here is for nonstructural use and is only to improve the model's appearance. Once installed, the rigging takes just a few minutes to assemble or disassemble and is very realistic looking.

BOY SCOUTS TO THE RESCUE
If you were a Boy Scout, you are probably familiar with the rigging material that I used; it's called "plastic lace" and is available at most craft stores. It is the same flat, plastic material as we wove into lanyards, key chains and other novelty items when earning our Scouting badges (I've also heard the material referred to as "boondoggle" and "gimp"). Modelers will appreciate its realistic streamlined shape, low cost and the many colors it comes in. I used silver and bright silver chrome to make my rigging
The material is about 3/32 inch wide and about 1/32 inch thick-just about the right size for most 1/6- to 1/4-scale models. I used it on my 22.5-percent-scale, 87-inch-span Stearman PT-17, and it looks great.
HARDWARE
For sport scale, standard 2-56 devises make good-looking rigging connectors. Robart clevis links, however, are more realistic. These come packaged with Robart's swivelball control-horn sets and are secured into place with a small screw and locknut. Though they look more scale than the others, Robart devises, with their screws and nuts, take a bit more time to assemble and disassemble. To get the realism and ease of assembly that I wanted, I used a combination of these clevis types. I put the standard ones under the top wing where they aren't easily seen and the Robart clevises on top of the bottom wing, where they are always in clear view. To take the model apart, I simply disconnect the clevises from the upper wing and leave the Robart ones permanently attached to the bottom wing panels
MAKING RIGGING
It's very simple to make any length of flying and landing wire that you want. First, cut the rigging slightly oversize and then trim the front and rear edges of one end at a slight angle-about 1/4 inch long-and leave the end about 1/16 inch wide (see Figure 1). Hold the plastic with a pair of pliers, and screw the clevis over the end (don't use solder links). The tapered end allows the material to be threaded into the link; the threads bite into the material and make the connection stronger (it may help to squeeze the end of the lace with pliers to make it a little narrower).
Position the rigging so that its flat surface is parallel with the clevises' flat surfaces. Carefully fill the clevis body with thick Zap, and be sure to fill the space on each side of the plastic lacing. Use just enough glue to avoid having any excess run out the other side. The threads and CA make a very strong bond with the plastic lacing. I have attempted to pull the lacing out of the clevis, but it only stretches. The final length of the flying wires must be determined when the rigging is in place on the model.
Metal landing-gear straps make good attachment points for the rigging. Bend them in the middle to the proper angle and screw one end to a plywood plate in the wing, stabilizer, or fuselage side. The clevises can then be attached to the protruding tab. Attach the rigging to one of the tabs, and hold the other end to the opposite tab. The second clevis should be attached to the plastic lacing so that the final rigging length is shorter than needed. This allows you to stretch the rigging when both ends are connected. As a tightness guide, I have found that for rigging about 18 inches long, you should aim to make it 1/2 inch shorter. For a 24-inch rigging, make it about 3/4 inch shorter. Cut the lacing so that when it's stretched, it will fit inside the body of the second clevis.

PERMANENT RIGGING
Crimp-on electrical wiring lugs can also be used for permanent rigging such as that on a stabilizer or on cabane struts. RadioShack sells many lugs that are ideal for model use. The catalog number for the Solderless Ring Tongue set is 64-3030A. Use the 22-gauge wire lugs for no. 4 or no. 6 screw holes. Big homeimprovement stores also carry these lugs. They aren't threaded, so the lacing must be forced into the body and glued securely. Wire lugs are smaller than the clevis links and look better for permanent installations. Just be sure to include a hard point where they're attached to the model so you can screw them securely into place.
The next time you think your biplane needs a little something extra, add some rigging wires. I've built a number of models that went without rigging because it was just too much trouble. This method makes fabrication as well as field assembly and disassembly fast and easy. Give it a try; you'll love the results.
Pacer Technology, 9420 Santa Anita Ave., Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730; (800) 538-3091; fax (909) 987-0497; www.pacertechnology.com.
Robart Mfg., P.O. Box 1247, 625 N. 12th St., St. Charles, IL 60174; (630) 584-7616; fax (630) 584-3712; www.robart.com.
Copyright Air Age Publishing Apr 2002

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 7:55 AM   
JoeAverage



Posts: 187
Score: 100
Joined: 6/8/2007
Last Login: 9/2/2012
From: Georgian Bluffs, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
In My search for the overall diameter of of the Jacobs L-4 this is the only material I came across. The L-4 is 1118mm O.A. or 44" The rest may be of some use.

Common Waco engines


Waco Engine Code U
R-670, Continental W-670
Type: R-670-8 (W-670-17)
Year: Country: USA
Configuration: Seven-cylinder air-cooled radial, direct drive.
Cylinders: Bore: 120mm Stroke: 117.5mm Capacity: 10.94 l
Compression: 5.4 to 1
Length: 868.4mm Diameter: 1079.5mm
Weight:
Power: 220hp
Waco Engine Code V
240hp Continental W-670-M
Revolutions: 2075rpm
Consumption: SFC:
Waco Engine Code H
R-680, Lycoming
Type: R-680-E3A
Year: Country: USA
Configuration: Nine-cylinder air-cooled radial engine. Ungeared.
Cylinders: Bore: 117mm Stroke: 114mm Capacity: 11.15 l
Compression: 7 to 1
Length: 953.1mm Diameter: 1104.9mm
Weight: 223.9kg
Power: 300hp
Revolutions: 2300rpm
Consumption: SFC:
Waco Engine Code Y
R-755, Jacobs L-4
The radial engines of Jacobs were conservative designs, designed for
simplicity and robustness. They were widely used in trainers, and
proved to be very reliable.
Type: R-755A1 (L-4MB)
Year: Country: USA
Configuration: Seven-cylinder air-cooled radial, unsupercharged and
ungeared.
Cylinders: Bore: 133mm Stroke: 127mm Capacity: 12.4 l
Length: 1020mm Diameter: 1118mm
Weight: 229kg
Power: 225hp, cruising 175hp
Revolutions: 2000rpm
Consumption: SFC:
Waco Engine Code E
Wright R-760-E2
350hp
R-760, Wright Whirlwind 7
The Whirlwind was built in seven-cylinder (R-760) and nin-cylinder
(R-975) versions. The Whirlwind series powered many aircraft and also
some tanks.
Waco Engine Code D
Type: R-760-E1
Year: Country: USA
Configuration: Seven-cylinder, air-cooled radial, supercharged.
Cylinders: Bore: 127mm Stroke: 140mm Capacity: 12.4 l
Compression: 6.1 to 1
Length: Diameter: 1143mm
Weight: 259kg
Power: 300hp, 285hp normal
Revolutions: 2250rpm
Consumption: SFC:
R-830, Jacobs L-5
Waco Engine Code A
R-915, Jacobs L-6
Basically a larger, reinforced development of the R-755.
Type: R-915A1 (L-6MB)
Year: Country: USA
Configuration: Seven-cylinder air-cooled radial, unsupercharged and
ungeared.
Cylinders: Bore: 139.7mm Stroke: 139.7mm Capacity: 14.97 l
Compression: 6 to 1
Length: 1030mm Diameter: 1160mm
Weight: 252kg
Power: 330hp, cruise 220hp
Revolutions: 2200rpm
Consumption: SFC: 0.24 kg/hp/hr
R-975, Wright Whirlwind 9
The Whirlwind was built in seven-cylinder (R-760) and nin-cylinder
(R-975) versions. The Whirlwind series powered many aircraft and also
some tanks.
Waco Engine Code W
Type: R-975-E3
Year: Country: USA
Configuration: Nine-cylinder, air-cooled radial, supercharged.
Cylinders: Bore: 127mm Stroke: 140mm Capacity: 15.9 l
Compression: 6.3 to 1
Length: Diameter: 1143mm
Weight: 306kg
Power: 450hp, 412hp normal
Revolutions: 2250rpm
Consumption: SFC:
Waco Engine code S
R-985, Pratt & Whitney Wasp Jr
Type: R-985-T1B3
Year: Country: USA
Configuration: Nine-cylinder air-cooled radial, supercharged, ungeared.
Cylinders: Bore: 131.76mm Stroke: 13176mm Capacity: 16.14 l
Compression: 6 to 1
Length: Diameter: 1170mm
Weight: 303kg dry
Power: 450 hp
Revolutions: 2300rpm
Consumption: SFC:
R-1300, Wright Cyclone 7
A seven-cylinder version of the R-1820 Cyclone 9.

From Janes Military Publications

< Message edited by JoeAverage -- 11/21/2007 9:05 AM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/21/2007 12:54 PM   
Mr. Lucky



Posts: 34
Score: 100
Joined: 10/24/2007
Last Login: 10/28/2008
From: Shoreline, WA, USA
Status: offline
Guys,

I may be jumping in too prematurely here but I have some info on the Canopy versions. I am currently obtaining full scale construction plans to scratch build a UPF-7 with the custom canopy and modified turtle deck. With the L-5 275 hp Jake radial this will basically give me a modern ZPF-7. My drawings and information come from a long time Waco restorer who has been restoring full scale Waco's for 39 years. I will try to be brief because my information is second hand and I have an incredible respect for John so I would not want to quote him poorly or incorrectly. His knowledge is incredible and the depth is amazing. Almost all of the following information is quoted from John. Some has been slightly modified for length and content to get the info included from numerous conversations. If there are any mistakes then they are from me trying to condense the info to better fit into this posting, not Johns.

John obtained the drawings from the Smithsonian from the original F-6's and eventually developed a drawing package for the "Coupe Top" with turtle deck modifications for other Waco club members who wished to add a coupe top to their former stock UPF-7's. There are now several versions but John feels that one of the best conversions is the ZPF-7 that Skylark posted in a reply to me back around page 163 to 165 or there abouts. I'm leaving out names since no one has actually given me permission to be dropping real Waco owners names.

Now here is the actual info, quoted as correctly as possible but somwhat condensed; back in 1936 Waco first introduced the "Coupe Top" modification as standard equipment on F-6 models primarily because their market was the flying sportsman and the flying business executive who wanted speed and comfort in year-round flying. Only when the wartime training role loomed did Waco revert the UPF-7 back to a OPEN rear cockpit as standard equipment. There are apparently a number of owners who are now wanting to incorporate the factory approved change replacing the open rear cockpit with the racier looking optional coupe top with a sliding canopy over the rear seat and a removable tonneau cover or hatch over the front seat. This gives them in a sense the more exotic beauty of the ZPF-6 and 7 combined with the structural improvements of the UPF-7. This would be the wider landing gear to eliminate the groundlooping problem, the flat upper wing, and the easier front cockpit access. This last change was a government required modification for better egress for the instructor to be able to bail out if required. The change in designations from UPF to YPF or ZPF is not actually from the coupe top modifications it is actually because of the engine changes from the Continental to the Jake. There were 3 options the L-4 with 225 hp (Waco code Y) the L-5 with 285 hp (Waco code Z) and the L-6 with 330 hp (Waco code A). See JoeAverage's post for a very complete listing of Waco engine and model code designations.

With my natural desire for bigger must be better I figured, cool, I'll get the 330 hp Jake and go like a raped ape. I've been informed that Waco stressed the aircraft to + or - 7.5 G's with a maximum safe hp at 320 hp. Waco evidently never used the L-6 for this reason. I was informed that the version was fondly referred to as the "Time Bomb" and so I have elected to go with the present ever popular L-5 with 275 hp. Evidently the FAA does not recognize all of this and designates these Waco's as UPF-7's. The owners however wish to designate their models with proper Waco designations regardless of what the FAA feels.

I have a ton of planning and preparations before I can actually start my full scale UPF-7/ZPF-7 modification build but have promised Number 1 that I will be posting my build progress pictures here on the thread since Bill is the one who got me in touch with the right people who eventually placed me with John. As a Waco Brotherhood member I am pretty much twitching to begin my build but I want to strive for complete perfection so I am doing everything correctly and in their proper sequence.

I hope this answers some or most of the questions on the canopy versons.

Ben
Mr. Lucky
Waco Brotherhood #74


_____________________________

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings

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