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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 6:02 PM   
SuperCub Man



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From: St. Catharines, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Regarding the gear from Century as in the photo, how does one cover it? With balsa sheet, or F/G skins or plastic?

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 6:13 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I think that I would build a wooden sub frame (ribs etc) and then build a set of fiberglass skins to cover the framework. Remember, you will need to do it in different pieces, since the bottom section will need to telescope in and out of the upper portion. It will take a little engineering to accomplish, but should be worth the effort.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 6:51 PM   
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I agree with Bill, build the gear fairings in 3 or 4 parts for either Sierra or Century. An inner Main Strut fairing with a streamlined cross section fixed to the upper main strut (lower strut floats inside fairing), the large triangular fairing that fits over the main strut fairing and finally the wheel pant fairing that is able to move over the main strut fairing with the action of the spring loaded lower strut. Here a few pictures to help visualize from YMF Classic NC 14081.

P1 Inner side of wheel pants and gear fairings, note cut out for inner strut, stainless wear strips, tow point and slit in wheel pant to gear fairing.

P2 Different angle of inner side showing clearance gap on pant fairing and tow point.

P3 Top outer view of wheel pant to gear fairing, again note gap around strut fairing and wear strips.

P4 Front view pf gear, notice that the wheel pant fairing has a "neck" that fits over the main strut fairing to give the length needed to allow for movement as the lower strut "moves".


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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 12/15/2007 8:50 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 8:02 PM   
Skinny Bob



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

SCM,

I agree with Bill, build the gear fairings in 3 or 4 parts for either Sierra or Century. An inner Main Strut fairing with a streamlined cross section fixed to the upper main strut (lower strut floats inside fairing), the large triangular fairing that fits over the main strut fairing and finally the wheel pant fairing that is able to move over the main strut fairing with the action of the spring loaded lower strut. Here a few pictures to help visualize from YMF Classic NC 14081.

P1 Inner side of wheel pants and gear fairings, note cut out for inner strut, stainless wear strips, tow point and slit in wheel pant to gear fairing.

P2 Different angle of inner side showing clearance gap on pant fairing and tow point.

P3 Top outer view of wheel pant to gear fairing, again note gap around strut fairing and wear strips.


John, what would we do without you!

Thanks again


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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 8:35 PM   
SuperCub Man



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Status: offline 		Thanks Bill and John. I appreciate your advise. I notice that there are what appears to be wooden spars under the center of the top wing. Some aircraft have two of them and I think I've seen one with four. What is their use? Are they just varnished wood?

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 9:14 PM   
RICKSTUBBZ



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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

I'm at it again. I tore into the tail surfaces last night, and re-cut all the edges. I am in the process of rebuilding all of them with tubing for the edges. I got tired of never seeing a leading or trailing edge that looks right. So, here I go again. Somebody Stop ME! At this rate, this will be the worlds smallest Scale YMF ever built. There's gotta be a stopping place, I just don't have it in sight yet.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


Bill,
Without a doubt, you are taking this one to the next level. It is going to be one sweet WACO! Oh, I want try to stop you. Want to see how far you will go.... If I can build one half as nice it should be pretty darn good.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 9:30 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Jim (SCM),

The wooden strips (either varnished or painted) are part of the fuel tank support system. The lower center wing surface is plywood (I belive 1/4" ) and the upper center wing surface is the fuel tank top itself on the YMF Classic NC 14081. The center section is covered and painted and then the strips are screwed in place from the inside and/or also bolted. The tank is then installed and covering is completed if needed. Original YMFs had the tank buried under the covering which then had to be removed and replaced to service the tank. You are correct in your observations that some Wacos had more than two wood strips.

P1 YMF Classic, NC 14081. 2 wooden tank support strips. Notice the relief cuts in the plywood tank compartment floor to allow for the tank fittings and fuel guage

P2 HARMs UBF-2, NC 2091K. Note the 5 wooden strips with no visible screws except for a bolt at each end of the center strip. Note the rib extensions at the rear of the tank compartment.

P3 Cabin Wacos have the wood strips too. Bill Harter’s YKS-7 NC 17474, Note the 3 strips under the tank. That is Bill and his wife in front and his dad in the rear seat.

P4 Tank compartment on the upper wing of a YKS under restoration. Note the 3 lines of screws for the wood strips and rib extensions on the aft side.

P5 Upper Tank fittings on UBF-2 NC 12002 with fabric covered tank. Note neoprene washer around fill cap neck and vents and 2 extra layers of fabric reinforcement around the vent tubes. Bolt on metal center strip passes thru the wing to the center wood strip below.

P6 Top of tank on YMF Classic NC 14081. The wing surface is the tank upper section. Similar fittings.


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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 12/15/2007 10:00 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 9:50 PM   
SuperCub Man



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Status: offline 		Terrific John - that's all the info I need!! I notice the connections in the top wing for the gas lines. I'm thinking they could be simulated with some RCA jacks, and with the wire acting as gas lines, could bring the wing tip light circuits down to the fuse. That would make for easy connect/disconnecting assembly at the field! Lots of thoughts here!

Thanks

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/15/2007 11:58 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Y'all are going to hate me for saying this, but I was just finishing up the lawn mowing this afternoon, and was raking the grass cluppings, when I heard a Jacobs Radial. I just had to look up, and sure enough, there was the Yellow YMF with the red trim (it looks like the Cox fifth scale ARF, and may be the one that they modelled). he flew a couple of circles over my place, and headed for home. He lives in a flying community about 6 miles North of me, and Lordy does it shine.....Sounds purty too. Oh, and about cutting the yard, Well the St. Augustine grass does require mowing year-round, and it's only 83 degrees here today. Sunny, with a light breeze. It's terrible to have to live this way, but someone has to do it.

Bill, WACO Brother #1

< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 12/15/2007 11:59 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 12:04 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

I'm at it again. I tore into the tail surfaces last night, and re-cut all the edges. I am in the process of rebuilding all of them with tubing for the edges. I got tired of never seeing a leading or trailing edge that looks right. So, here I go again. Somebody Stop ME! At this rate, this will be the worlds smallest Scale YMF ever built. There's gotta be a stopping place, I just don't have it in sight yet.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


Bill,
Without a doubt, you are taking this one to the next level. It is going to be one sweet WACO! Oh, I want try to stop you. Want to see how far you will go.... If I can build one half as nice it should be pretty darn good.


I have one of the elevators completed and covered. The tubing made all the difference in the world. I used 1/8" K&S aluminum tubing. It requires a splice, so you would need a short piece of aluminum tubing that will just slide into the 1/8 th tube. It is easy to form with your hands. I also made the stub shaft that carries the outboard hinge too. The strap part of the hinge will be a short piece of sheet aluminum, through bolted to the horizontal stabilizer.

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 2:44 AM   
Black Drape



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I feel sorry for you, having to stay home and mow the lawn. It was 28 degrees here today, so we all went flying. You put a set of skis on that Waco and bring it up to Montana, and I'll take you flyen. Forget that lawnmower!
Ron

Waco Brother #57

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 7:31 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Black Drape

Stickbuilder

I feel sorry for you, having to stay home and mow the lawn. It was 28 degrees here today, so we all went flying. You put a set of skis on that Waco and bring it up to Montana, and I'll take you flyen. Forget that lawnmower!
Ron

Waco Brother #57


If you catch me North of Ocala Florida in December, I won't need a set of skis, I need an invitation to Chatahoochie. (that is the facility for the insane here in Florida) If it gets colder than it is right here, right now, I'm looking for a southbound lane. You guys have your snow and ice. We have our Hurricaines. We had first choice.

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 7:43 AM   
ctflyboy


 

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Status: offline 		Charlie (lazyace)
we got hit with 11 inches of the white stuff on Thursday,and now we got a Nor" Easter coming in tonight the weather guy is calling for snow, sleet, freezing rain, and alot of wind, everything but the kitchen sink


George
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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 6:06 PM   
Stickbuilder



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ORIGINAL: ctflyboy

Charlie (lazyace)
we got hit with 11 inches of the white stuff on Thursday,and now we got a Nor" Easter coming in tonight the weather guy is calling for snow, sleet, freezing rain, and alot of wind, everything but the kitchen sink


George
Waco Brotherhood # 5


I don't know what I'd do with 11 inches of white sand.....Maybe sell it to the City of Daytona?????

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 9:46 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I'm going to need to use a removable joiner for the elevators. I will need to be able to remove them in halves so that I can do the same thing with the horizontal stab, should it require maintenance. Guess I'll use a piece of brass tubing and drill it and the dowells to accept a couple of bolts. anyone have a better idea? 2 servo's won't get it. I'm out of room .

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 10:41 PM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		May I suggest a square joiner instead of round tubing and bolt installation, that way you avoid elongation of the bolt holes from the use of the elevator going up and down.

If it gets too cold for you there in sunny Florida, you can go to that island down south from Key West, It is always warm down there. You may have visited there when you were in the navy.

Angel
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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 11:03 PM   
Stickbuilder



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ORIGINAL: aminiet

May I suggest a square joiner instead of round tubing and bolt installation, that way you avoid elongation of the bolt holes from the use of the elevator going up and down.

If it gets too cold for you there in sunny Florida, you can go to that island down south from Key West, It is always warm down there. You may have visited there when you were in the navy.

Angel
B 58


A square joiner sounds doable, and makes sense as well. I visited several Islands both while in the Navy and afterward on my boat. I suspect that you are talking about the one where we can only go to a small part of the island, while the rest has been considered off limits for some years now.

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/16/2007 11:32 PM   
Tony V.


 

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Status: offline 		Bill,
K&S has Sq. alum. tubing of many sizes. Tower has them....Maybe that will work and be lite at the back....

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/17/2007 12:17 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I'm thinking that I will need the wall strength of the brass square tube. It only needs to be 1 1/2" long.

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/17/2007 12:45 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Bill,

You could do the square tube in tube joiner (I would use brass as it is a bit harder) and then camouflage it with a piece of round aluminum tubing that the larger square tube just fits inside epoxied over it.

On hinging the elevators and rudders, I think the Robart Large hinges (without a fixed pin) could work and be made to look scale as well. Slip a square/rectangular shaped washer (thin brass or aluminum strip) over the front part of the hinge and set it only as deep as the sq. washer contacts the trailing edge of the stabilizer. Set the rear part of the hinge so the pivot is centered in the middle of the elevator leading edge tubing. A piece of soft wire wrapped around the front hinge blades and epoxied to holes in the washer will simulate the “U” bolts with nuts epoxied in the ends. A common long wire hinge pin would make the elevator removable from the stab. The other alternative is to make the hinges from G-10 or circuit board material.

P1 Elevator hinge on YMF Classic NC 14081
P2 Elevator hinge on UBF-2 NC 2091K (different angle)
P3 Rudder hinge on UBF-2 NC 2091K


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RE: WACO YMF - 12/17/2007 3:07 AM   
RICKSTUBBZ



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

I'm going to need to use a removable joiner for the elevators. I will need to be able to remove them in halves so that I can do the same thing with the horizontal stab, should it require maintenance. Guess I'll use a piece of brass tubing and drill it and the dowells to accept a couple of bolts. anyone have a better idea? 2 servo's won't get it. I'm out of room .

Bill, WACO Brother #1

Bill,
Another Idea in a different direction.
Many post ago someone showed how they bolted on the tail feathers. (Sorry I don't rememeber who it was). I think they accessed the screws from the bottom of the fuse. Anyway, What if you made the horizontal stab and elevators in on solid peice, opposed to seperating them like a wing. Then use a removeable verticle stab/rudder set up to be able to get to the horizontal parts and remove them. All of the simulated aluminum skin in the "fillet" area would be attached to the verticle stab. Then all you would have to do is hide the access holes in the bottom of the fuse. This would also give good access for some of the controlable horizontal stab incidence peices.
Good luck. Hope to see some pic's on the progress.

< Message edited by RICKSTUBBZ -- 12/17/2007 3:22 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/17/2007 3:11 AM   
RICKSTUBBZ



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ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Bill,

You could do the square tube in tube joiner (I would use brass as it is a bit harder) and then camouflage it with a piece of round aluminum tubing that the larger square tube just fits inside epoxied over it.

On hinging the elevators and rudders, I think the Robart Large hinges (without a fixed pin) could work and be made to look scale as well. Slip a square/rectangular shaped washer (thin brass or aluminum strip) over the front part of the hinge and set it only as deep as the sq. washer contacts the trailing edge of the stabilizer. Set the rear part of the hinge so the pivot is centered in the middle of the elevator leading edge tubing. A piece of soft wire wrapped around the front hinge blades and epoxied to holes in the washer will simulate the “U” bolts with nuts epoxied in the ends. A common long wire hinge pin would make the elevator removable from the stab. The other alternative is to make the hinges from G-10 or circuit board material.

P1 Elevator hinge on YMF Classic NC 14081
P2 Elevator hinge on UBF-2 NC 2091K (different angle)
P3 Rudder hinge on UBF-2 NC 2091K



John,
I like this idea of yours, on how to simulate the scale hinges.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/17/2007 3:14 AM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		Bill.

What trouble did I get you into?

One more idea on that square joiner. Thread both top and bottom surfaces and use a srew to adjust the angle on the vertical stab. from the ground through a hole at the bottom of the fuse, or install a bell crank at the bottom and drive it with a servo via a link rod.

Yes that was the island I was referring to. I used to live there.

Angel
B 58

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/17/2007 5:03 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		The adjustable Horizontal stab is, and has been in place since early in the framing sequence. The horizontal stab uses a couple of joiner tubes that are bolted to one side of the stab, and permenantly fixed to the other side. It uses a bell crank and servo to adjust the incidence. The elevators must be able to separate in order to service the stab, should it become necessary. The fillet will attach to the vertical stab and the fuselage. The horizontal stab only contacts the fuselage via the joiner tubes, which act as a pivot in the rear, and the adjustment beam in the front. It's pretty complicated, and yet simple at the same time.

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/18/2007 1:48 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I have decided to go with the Brass round tubing, and through-bolt the joiners through the tube. I'm trying for it not to be so visible.

Bill, WACO Brother #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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