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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 4:04 PM   
RICKSTUBBZ



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quote:

ORIGINAL: khodges

quote:

ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ

Ken (Khodges) Were you able to finish up the shop?


.... but here's the basic setup. Building table in the foreground is 4 x 7 feet, lots of shelves with space to park a few models. Another couple of tables in back against the wall, for working on smaller pieces, engines, etc. I'm going to hang a couple more fluorescent lights to brighten up the big table. I brought my bandsaw and scrollsaw up from the barn, I have room for them now, and they were getting rusty and grungy in the barn.

...


Ken,
Without a doubt you have some room to work. I like the touch of the rubber powered free flighter taking center stage. I know what you mean about the saws getting trashed being in the barn. I am dealing with that same issue for all of my junk and tools. But that is a huge project for another day. I don't see any of your birds hanging? I use to hang all of mine. Albiet they were 40 and 60 size birds. I Made saddles out of shoe strings to wrap under the fuse and wings. Kept them safe and out of the way.
By the way, Have you decided on which project to do next?

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 6:11 PM   
Skinny Bob



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Status: offline 		Anthony, I am going to build my UBF that way. I am in the process of drawing all the parts in CorelDraw. When complete Laser Lizard will cut them for me using the .cdr file format. I am considering doing the bottom wing that way also. My plan is to construct the plane very similar to the Genesis Waco. As I draw parts I export them into SolidWorks, this lets me see a 3D view of the assemblies. I spend as mush time learning SW and correcting mistakes as I do drawing. But I'll get there someday!.

< Message edited by Skinny Bob -- 12/30/2007 6:18 PM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 6:39 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I am going to place an order with Sig for some balsa in a week or so. They sell the aluminum wing jouners that come with the Spacewalker. I am going to go ahead and order the joiner and see if I can make that fit the bill for the Waco.
I do work in a machine shop so if it doesn't fit I can always manufacture one the correct size .
Anthony

< Message edited by CubNut -- 12/30/2007 6:40 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 6:51 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Bob,
Looking at the plans and some full scale photo's I see a real advantage to building the bottom wing 3 pieces also. This would allow you to run the fuse stringers below the bottom wing for a more scale profile as well as build a better wing fillet. This is all very interesting and I will have to look into if further. I believe the wings can be made 3 piece without too much trouble. I have a Ziroli 87" Stearman all framed up and it has 3 piece wings also. I will see if I can just copy that method to the Waco.
Anthony

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 7:12 PM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RICKSTUBBZ

I like the touch of the rubber powered free flighter taking center stage.
By the way, Have you decided on which project to do next?


I thought about scaling up the R-P FF to about 500% and using a truck-tire inner tube for power . I could probably use a 4x6 timber for the fuse, that's all the wood I'd need. I figure the inner tube might spin a warped piece of 1x6 deck planking for a prop. My other planes are all out in my horse trailer right now (fully enclosed and insulated, so I'm not worried about weather), to give me room to work. Hanging them seems to be the only option I'll have except for the top shelf on a couple of racks. At least the ceiling in the garage is 11 feet, just a matter of locating attic joists for hooks.

Actually, my next project is sitting in the box which is laying on the building table; L-19/0-1 BirdDog. 1/4 scale Vaillancourt plans, and I got the kit laser cut by Precision Cut Kits. 108 inch wingspan, which is why I needed the larger building table. I have a ZDZ-50NG for the motive power.

Of my next six planned projects after the L-19, the shortest wing in them is six feet, which is the UPF Waco. Danged if I know where I'll store four 1/4 scale and two 1/5 scale biplanes, plus the L-19. My ceiling would look like the Air and Space Museum in D.C.

I want to do a build thread on the BirdDog; do you think I should do it on the Vintage/Antiques forum, or RC Scale Warbirds, or ?

< Message edited by khodges -- 12/30/2007 7:29 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 7:27 PM   
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Status: offline 		Anthony, keep us posted. I'd like to see your work on this project. ( With Pictures )


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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 8:14 PM   
mango12


 

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Status: offline 		Anthony,
I am building the Pepino YMF. I built both wings in three pieces, for ease of set-up at the field and for storage purposes. I plan on leaving the outboard wing panels assembled during transport with a false inner strut to keep them stable. I have seen this done on a giant Stearman and it seemed to work great. Make sure the bottom center section is removable for fusealge access. All I will have to do at the field is attatch the outboard panels, tighten four bolts, and connect the flying wires and servo leads. Hope this helps.


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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 9:31 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I am sure I will pursue the 3 piece wing idea,
Just got home from doing a little shopping with the wife and swung by Sears and picked up a new 16" scroll saw. I had always borrowed one in the past so now Iam all set for kit cutting. I have a band saw,disc/belt sander and drill press as well, everything needed to cut some kits
Anthony

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 9:42 PM   
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Glad you brought up the fillets. There seems to be differences between the original YMFs and the new YMF Classics and Supers. The original fillets appear longer and about one stringer lower at the rear on the fuselage. The new fillets are shorter and higher on the fuselage and appear fatter with a more pronounced upsweep to the underside trailing edge. See the National Waco Club site, F3-F5 album for original photos. Photos 11 (NC 14041), 30 (NC 14067), 42 (NC 14134) and 67 (Cuban #26) all show the longer, lower fillet as compared to the one below.

P1 Fillet on YMF Classic NC 14081, from below
P2 Fillet on YMF Classic NC 14081, from the side. The trailing edge on the original would attach one stringer lower and further back.
P3 Fillet on YMF Classic NC 14081, from the other side.


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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 12/30/2007 9:50 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 10:34 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		John,
Thanks for the pics, I am starting to collect a folder of Waco pics. I am also very curious to the dimensions of the streamlined flying wires. Nelson's Hobby's carries streamlined flying wires that are 1/8" wide. I think these may be a little large for 1/5 scale. I have a good solution for scale aileron connections for the top to the bottom wing but I need some good pics of all the flying wire connections if you have them on file .
I am going to draw up some scale clevis ends and have my brother turn them out for me on one of his CNC lathes. Once I get this drawn up and talk him into doing it I will have him run off several extra sets. They will be a bit more tedious to hook up at the field but the WOW factor will more than make up for it.
Antony
ps. BTW this is rapidly becoming a sickness for me, can't stop searching the web for Waco stuff and I am trying to rush through everything else I need to get done so I can start on the Waco

< Message edited by CubNut -- 12/30/2007 10:36 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 11:22 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Anthony,

I was just to CCA yesterday measuring the struts, aileron spar taper point and taking more pictures of different Wacos, but dam* it, forgot to measure the flying wires. If memory serves me correctly, 1/8th width would be a bit small as I believe the wire to be 1" wide or maybe a bit more. I will stop in next weekend and measure them for sure (weather permitting) and get the measurements.

There is a Canadian dealer that imports the wires from Europe that are custom made for your aircraft (you supply the measurements) that are available in different sizes (width) with scale fittings. Being custom, they are expensive (like $30 for a set of 2 18"ers ). When I find the link again I'll pass it on.

I know how you feel about the info gathering process, that is why I did the list on the House of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 12/30/2007 11:26 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/30/2007 11:29 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		I used to have the link for the flying wires you are talking about, way too expensive. They have nice scale fittings but I figured it would cost over $250 just for the flying wires on my 87" Stearman .
Anthony

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 12:33 AM   
red 1a


 

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Hi John found this on a post in another form. Thought you might be interested. While this is for 1/6 scale, one could scale up to 1/5th. Don Borton (aka red 1)

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Status: offline Interesting - I went to Nelsonhobby.com as suggested above and discovered that the wing wires for the Waco are different sizes depending on their function.
-
Function----------------Full Scale ----------------1/6 Scale
Front Flying Wire-----.439" ---------------------.073"
Rear Flying Wire------.450"----------------------.075"
Front Landing Wire---.439"----------------------.073"
Rear Landing Wire----.439"----------------------.073"
Stabilizer Wire---------.351"----------------------.059"
-
Looks like 1/14" diameter wire would be closer to scale for my 1/6 scale Waco , but close enough to the 1/16" weed whacker line. I plan to dye the white line silver. I also plan to CA (or crimp) the line into a 2-56 thread coupler and screw the coupler into a 1" turnbuckel which attaches to a brass fastner on the wing.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 12:49 AM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		Just as I thought the 1/8" wire would be too large even for the 1/5 scale. It would work fine for my 87" stearman so I may go ahead and order some just to see how it looks on the Stearman.
Antony

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 2:04 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Okay, Here is the roster to date.

WACO BROTHERHOOD MEMBERSHIP:

#1 stickbuilder
#2 Hughes500
#3 Jim Henley
#4 mmattockx
#5 CTflyboy
#6 michaelj2k
#7 Ronj10
#8 gwulle
#9 jim schroer
#10 Skinny Bob
#11 Bart5495
#12 Pimmnz
#13 HarryJ
No. 14 Old Git
#15 ChrisMH
#16 Nerevar
#17 Ricatic
#18 Clay H.
#19 Tripp2Loo
#20 KHodges
#21 Bill Hogue (WACO One)
#22 Mangolo (Waldo)
#23 av8ter
#24 yel914 (Rick)
#25 damifino
#26 skylarkmk1
#27 Jacque
#28 Edwin
#29 AROPLANE
#30 CubNut (Anthony)
#31 BQuartucy (Bob Q)
#32 AERORON
#33 funkymusic
#34 Live Wire (Larry)
#35 obo (Bob)
#36 Jackk36 (Jack)
#37 fatherrooster (Jim)
#38 Ilikebipes
#39 Kestrel0222
#40 CROWMAN17 (Marc)
#41 redcesar
#42 S. Christensen (Scott)
#43 Bill Deidrich
#44 Mike Barbee
#45 mrdhud (Dan Hudson)
#46 SoCalSal
#47 Todd (NightStalker)
#48 argon (Bob Gonzalez)
#49 mango 12 (Scott)
#50 skyjet 1
#51 ZIG
#52 Didg
#53 MarvinE255 (DOC)
#54 Joe Norris (Full Scale WACO Pilot)
#55 vasek
#56 SuperCub Man (Jim)
#57 Black Drape (Ron)
#58 aminiet (Angel Minet)
#59 Snowball
#60 doc zinger
#61 jagnweiner (Scott)
#62 Meesh (Bob)
#63 BigBoy99 (Bernie)
#64 stifts (Steve)
#65 RCWalker (Wallace)
#66 Mobyal
#67 lazyace
#68 bladerunner1955 (Don)
#69 trlambsr
#70 Big Bird (Ken)
#71 Tony V (Tony)
#72 red 1
#73 412t1 (Sean)
#74 Mr Lucky (Ben Warner)
#75 RICKSTUBBZ (Rick Stubblefield)
#76 ffdg (Fred)
#77 tomcraig
#78 Michou41a Michel
#79 Watzscale (Dick Watz)
#80 Devens
#81 msilvestro (Mark)
#82 Cheechukranch (Lewis)
#83 kruzin55 (Chris)
#84 lynchr (Ron)
#85 airplanegeek
#86 Mainer Jim
#87 Garthwood (Charles)
#88 RCBOATMANIAC (Dave)
#89 Thomas B
#90 George Werber

#100 nine o nine (Mitch Epstein)



WACO Sisterhood Roster:

S-1 Janelle (Lady Stickbuilder)
S-2 Sissy Nightstalker
S-3 Barb Barbee
S-4 LadyMango (Lynda)
S-5 BUMBLE GEE BEE (Gabi)

Bill, AMA 4720
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< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 1/11/2008 1:55 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 2:12 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: CubNut

Has anyone thought of making the top wing in 3 pieces?? That would allow you to leave the top center section attached to the cabanes at all times and just remove the outer panels. I would still leave the bottom wing as one piece but I would think this would make it easier to transport and setup at the field. Another advantage to doing this is that you could detail out the cabane area better if you made the top center setion a permenate mount.
Any thoughts here??
Anthony

Well,

You have let the cat out of the bag. I have plans to do this one that way, but I am planning to do the bottom wing in 3 sections as well. Remember, the root ribs on mine will be from 1/4" aircraft ply, and that means that you will need to cut 8 root ribs. I am going to use a socket head bolt that I can access with a ball driver, and put it under an access circle. I have to make the electrical hookup self aligning for the Aileron servos, the navigation lights, and the landing light and it's servo.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 2:14 AM   
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Status: offline 		Don, Antony,

You guys have got me going now on the wires. I will have to go to CCA next Saturday just to satisfy my curiosity. Like the struts and Dons post above, I now suspect they will also vary, depending on function and plane. I will pass what I find out to every one.

I did manage to measure the strut tubes and they varied in width on different planes. According to Terry, the Chief of Waco restorations at CCA for the HARM, the cross section is symmetrical, not tear drop like the K&S aluminum tubing and does vary. Terry also is a modeler and mentioned that K&S does have brass symmetrical tubing (found 1 piece in the rack at the LHS) that is ¼” wide, thin wall, but could not find it listed on their web site.

P1 Center strut on UBF-2 NC 155Y, side view, approx 2-1/2” wide (1/2” w @ 1/5th)
P2 Center strut on UBF-2 NC 155Y, front view, approx 1” thick (.2” t @ 1/5th)
P3 Center strut on QCF-2, NC 12428, side view, approx 2” wide. (.4 w @ 1/5th)

The Pica YMF 1/5th plans call for 9/16” (.558”) wide x 5/16” (.31”) thick bass wood. The GTM http://www.flygtm.com/web/pages/alu-struts.htm ¼ scale streamline struts for the Hanriot (p/n 2001) would be close (visually at scale judging distance, 4’) at .690 x .260.


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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 2:39 AM   
lynchr


 

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Status: offline 		I don’t say a lot (kind of quite and shy) but read all the posts and have learned a great deal. I already feel as if I know a lot of you. Thanks to everyone that takes the time and trouble to share information, especially the full size pictures and history.

Bill – If you brought home a 572 and then discovered it wouldn’t fit in a Waco I’ll take it off your hands. My 65 Bel Air only has a 502 I built and 500+ HP has become a little boring. Hope you have the 720 HP model.

In reading all the posts about landing gear and landing hop (seems to be more of a problem on paved runways), I remembered that when I took a rent-a-ride in one back it the 70’s, the pilot did not use the paved runway at all. He used the grass parallel to the runway. That flight was one of the most memorable hours of my 60+ years.

I have finally stopped working on the Cox Waco after fussing with it for four months and about 120 hours. Not bad for an ARF. I think I could have built one from scratch with a little more time invested and had a nicer plane. Due to family issues, I am not able to get to the field to fly anything for the time being, so I just started on a Pilot quarter scale Decathlon. I bought it at a swap meet in the early 90’s. The fuselage had been framed and the rest (I though) was still in the box. I now see why it was sold. The guy was way over his head. Nor only did he mess up the work he did, he used wood at random (and wrong) so now I am faced with finding, or cutting, metric size lumber. This project should keep me out of trouble for a long time.

Ken – I know you have a Decathlon and have two questions for you (or anyone else) that can offer some advice. Since I have discovered that the top half of the cowl is not in the box, I need to buy a fiberglass one. Who offers the best quality? Also, the kit specifies a 10 to 35 cc engine. I have an OS FT120; FT160 (in the Waco); FT300; and a 180 Moki on the shelf. I have checked the Moki and the whole cylinder head would have to stick out of the cowl. I’m not sure the 120 would be enough to do scale aerobatics, and the 300 would be gross overkill for a 13 pound plane with 1,500 sq in of wing. What are you using?

Ron

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 2:45 AM   
skylarkmk1



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I also managed to get a couple of shots of the wing tip from the rear and measured from the outer end of the aileron spar back to the start of the taper along the bottom. The top starts to taper about 7-1/4” from the end (P4).

P1 Rear view of the upper wing tip on UBA, NC 12245. Note the aileron stops just a little short of the spar end.
P2 End view of the lower wing tip on UBA NC 12245
P3 Front view of the aileron of an YKS under restoration. Note the taper starts at a little less than 29” from the tip.
P4 Rear view of the aileron spar of the same YKS.

For those of you that are not aware of it, Waco used the same aileron on many of its different models such as the YMF/UMF, UBF-2, UPF-7, QCF-2 and UBA and that is why you will see different airplanes used to illistrate various parts. Waco also used similar layouts for instrument panels.


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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 12/31/2007 2:53 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 4:14 AM   
RCBOATMANIAC



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hughes500E

Excellent, I won't worry too much about it then.
I remember flying the 1/6th Dave Platt YMF, little bit of power on final as well

This was my first YMF, it was the scarf that got me hooked



yeap yeap 17 years ago that was exactly what got my attention when I seen my first waco ymf in action was the scarf wrapped around the pilots neck, and I just knew I had to have my own. Here soon it will be a reality. Dave

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 4:20 AM   
WacoNut



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


quote:

ORIGINAL: CubNut

Has anyone thought of making the top wing in 3 pieces?? That would allow you to leave the top center section attached to the cabanes at all times and just remove the outer panels. I would still leave the bottom wing as one piece but I would think this would make it easier to transport and setup at the field. Another advantage to doing this is that you could detail out the cabane area better if you made the top center setion a permenate mount.
Any thoughts here??
Anthony

Well,

You have let the cat out of the bag. I have plans to do this one that way, but I am planning to do the bottom wing in 3 sections as well. Remember, the root ribs on mine will be from 1/4" aircraft ply, and that means that you will need to cut 8 root ribs. I am going to use a socket head bolt that I can access with a ball driver, and put it under an access circle. I have to make the electrical hookup self aligning for the Aileron servos, the navigation lights, and the landing light and it's servo.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


Sorry
I will be basically doing the same thing, it will be interesting to see how differently or the same that we tackle the different mods.
Anthony

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WACO Brother #30 Cub Brother #17
It''s not the hours you put in It''s what you put into the hours.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 5:13 AM   
WacoNut



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From: Blanchester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		John,
Looking through some of the pics you posted and trying to get a good look at the Cabane and N-Strut attach points. By the looks of the cabane attach points on the top of the fuse if you made them scale on the model the flying wires would have to be fully functional. I think that could be accomplished without too much trouble(it's all fun). Since you have full access to a Waco can you get the spacing on the rivets on the foreward fuse and on the cowling?
I am also going to try and come up with a material list to post here so everyone will know what stock they need to order to frame up the plane. Once I get my list nailed down to place my order I will post it here.
Anthony

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It''s not the hours you put in It''s what you put into the hours.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 5:32 AM   
TexasSkyPilot



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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Just a quick comment on why I like Zenoahs for good, inexpensive gassers. Now I have not bought one in a while, but when I used to buy them the reason I preferred them over the Quadras and some others is that the Zenoahs all had ball bearings, making them much smoother running and they idled better. Forgive me if that is old information, things might have changed in the past ten years..

Jim

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 6:15 AM   
RCBOATMANIAC



Posts: 289
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From: Lowville, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Okie Dokie, well I just happen to be looking through Ebay and found me a complete set of plans for a 1/6 scale YMF-3 comes with 4 sheets of plans and instruction manual. I just couldn't pass up the price $24.99 plus 4.00 S/H not to bad of a deal. Now I need to get the plans for the 1/5 scale and I'll be all set to go. Dave

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Happiness: Smell of burnt nitro in the air linked to a high speed boat.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/31/2007 6:47 AM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lynchr

.

I have finally stopped working on the Cox Waco after fussing with it for four months and about 120 hours. Not bad for an ARF. I think I could have built one from scratch with a little more time invested and had a nicer plane........so I just started on a Pilot quarter scale Decathlon. This project should keep me out of trouble for a long time.

Ken – I know you have a Decathlon and have two questions for you (or anyone else) that can offer some advice. Since I have discovered that the top half of the cowl is not in the box, I need to buy a fiberglass one. Who offers the best quality? Also, the kit specifies a 10 to 35 cc engine. I have an OS FT120; FT160 (in the Waco); FT300; and a 180 Moki on the shelf. I have checked the Moki and the whole cylinder head would have to stick out of the cowl. I’m not sure the 120 would be enough to do scale aerobatics, and the 300 would be gross overkill for a 13 pound plane with 1,500 sq in of wing. What are you using?

Ron


Only 120 hours?, Gee, you're just getting into the thick of it, why stop now? I have about 400 in mine, not counting re-doing the landing gear and repairing wingtips from ground loops. I sometimes bash Cox for the way they could have made the plane much more scale with no additional effort, but it IS a pretty nice ARF. I also agree that a good kit could be built almost (maybe more) easily than revamping this ARF.

Now......about the Decathlon. Unfortunately, the operative word is, had. I wrapped it up about three weeks ago, only thing untouched is the tail from the trailing edge of the wings back. It's rebuildable, if I had a set of plans and the desire. If you're interested in what I have left of it, let's talk. The wings got dinged on the leading edges, but can be uncovered and repaired. Sorry the cowl isn't part of the remains, and I don't know who might make a replacement, unless Fiberglass Specialties or Stan's Fibertech has one.

I had a BT32EI Fuji in mine, it fit the cowl perfectly. The spark plug just barely touched the bottom of the cowl, but no extra holes needed. It was plenty of power, even though I couldn't get it to run at full boogie (kept leaning out at high rpm's), it would do everything the full scale was capable of. The weight was also perfect for balance, with the batteries under the rear seat. I'm still thinking about what happened; I think it was in a stall and not enough wind over the tail. I had just gone vertical, and fell over in a loop. When I started down, I had power back, and got no elevator response to level out. I'm thinking now that if I'd added power, the prop wash over the tail would have given enough authority to level out. It did a turn and a half roll straight into the ground from about 200 feet. When I messed with the wreckage, the elevator and rudder worked fine. I was using a 2.4GHz radio and the batteries were fully charged, I had flown it a half dozen times before with no problems. ......Who knows?

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Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

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