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RE: WACO YMF - 11/12/2006 4:32 PM   
Jim Henley


 

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Status: offline 		But of course!! The more the merrier !! I am attaching a couple of shots of my rebuilt stab mount. I was able to bring the push rod housing out at the plan location. (Only after investing in an 18 inch drill bit) There is some slope to the housing but it does not bind the push rod. Thanks to you and H-500 for the tip on using dowels to locate the h-stab and v-stab. I will incorporate those ideas as I move ahead.
Jim

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/12/2006 7:58 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Looks as if you've got it going your way. Consider reinforcing the last former, and mounting a 1/2A or electric nose wheel bracket there for the tailwheel. It lools better and more scale mounted there than does using the kit supplied hardware.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 11/13/2006 1:57 AM   
Jim Henley


 

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Status: offline 		Bill,
The fellow who started this kit has the kit bracket screwed to the hardwood of the tail post. Then he modified the block on the bottom of the fuse to cover the bracket so all you can see is the part where the tail wheel wire goes through. I guess I don't understand which former to mount the tail wheel wire to, did you move yours forward of the tail block?
Thx

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/13/2006 4:05 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		No, but the scale tailwheel would be mounted to the last former. You could make a ply sandwich and use the nose wheel from a small 1/2A model and have a great scale tailwheel. I intend to do that on the next one. I had forgotten about doing it on this one until it was too late.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/13/2006 4:50 AM   
Jim Henley


 

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Status: offline 		Bill,
Just so happens that I have a 1/2 A nose wheel strut that I was going to use for the tail wheel. So if I understand, the scale tail wheel would be located behind former 14-B. I could mount the strut bearing to a doubler behind 14-B use the nose wheel control arm and run a push rod off the rudder, forward to the tail wheel assembly. The little fairing as shown on the plan would work just moved ahead to the new position. Add a little caster to the tail wheel wire and the wheel would be just ahead of the hinge line for the rudder. Is this how you would do it?
Thanks!!


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/13/2006 5:28 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Jim, that puts the tailwheel in the scale location, and that's exactly how I did it before. Getting old sucks. We tend to forget more than we remember.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/14/2006 3:29 AM   
evdo


 

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Status: offline 		Bill - Thanks for the dimensions on the 160 twin mount, it looks like it's just the right size to be annoying with the way the original builder decided to install the hardwood rails up to the firewall (which are tapped & have blind nuts for whatever original engine mount). One fairly simple approach which may work is if I cut a new 5/8" plywood firewall (smaller then the entire firewall), install blind-nuts on it, and then sandwich it up against w/ epoxy & bolts to the existing ply firewall, which has to be about 5/8" already--- otherwise i'd have to replace the entire firewall, rails, etc -- the sheeting is already on as well so i'd hate to have to try and cut the firewall out.

Any drawbacks to this type of an approach other then additional weight of the "extra" firewall? Maybe i'll try and get some pics.

-Tom

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/14/2006 3:43 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I pinned and epoxied mine to the original F-1 and bolted, and etc. The framework will follow the engine, if given half a chance. I think you'll be good with that setup.

Bill, AMA 4720WACO Brotherhood #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/14/2006 3:46 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Cut it to fit within the balsa radius parts and you should be fine. The nose will be a little long, but the model will probably balance better that way, so it's a plus.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 2:52 AM   
Jim Henley


 

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Status: offline 		Bill, H-500,
It's been a couple of days since I had anything to post, so here it is! The tail wheel strut in the scale location. There are still stringers to replace, the bottom block to hollow out and push rod housings to install, not to mention the 10 thousand adjustments to get it all to work correctly.
Jim

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< Message edited by Jim Henley -- 11/17/2006 2:56 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 4:23 AM   
Scalenut-RCU


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Stickbuilder,

Thanks for cluing me in on this thread. Good to see so much WACO building going on. I have not been down this road, but all the ones I have seen are great flying aircraft. Come on over to rcscalebuilder. com and check all the build threads going on there if you haven't.

Forest

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 4:31 AM   
Hughes500E



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Status: offline 		Hi Jim,
Coming along nicely, all your effort is sure to turn that into a great flyer. Keep us up to date, love it!

Welcome Forest, are you starting a Waco or just thinking about it

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 5:09 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scalenut-RCU

Hey Stickbuilder,

Thanks for cluing me in on this thread. Good to see so much WACO building going on. I have not been down this road, but all the ones I have seen are great flying aircraft. Come on over to rcscalebuilder. com and check all the build threads going on there if you haven't.

Forest


Forest,

Uhhh, I have a build thread going on over at RCScalebuilder as well. It requires resizing all the pics though, and often the site kicks me off for no appearant reason. I still hit the site often though.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 6:23 AM   
mmattockx


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Stickbuilder and others,

I would be one of the Waco fanatics mentioned previously. I will be following this thread in anticipation of one day finding a kit or plans set (preferably plans) to build my own from. If anything comes of the scanned parts, I would love a copy of those files to start things off.

Maybe one day one of the laser cutters will wake up and turn out a beautiful laser cut version of this fantastic aircraft...



Mark

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 6:27 AM   
Hughes500E



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Status: offline 		Hi Mark, welcome

If you are serious about picking up a set of plans and templates as I have done, email me through my profile!

Have I got a contact for you

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 2:14 PM   
Stickbuilder



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ORIGINAL: mmattockx

Hey Stickbuilder and others,

I would be one of the Waco fanatics mentioned previously. I will be following this thread in anticipation of one day finding a kit or plans set (preferably plans) to build my own from. If anything comes of the scanned parts, I would love a copy of those files to start things off.

Maybe one day one of the laser cutters will wake up and turn out a beautiful laser cut version of this fantastic aircraft...



Mark


And maybe, just maybe, somewhere in the hills of Kentucky is a pig that can really whistle. The scans will happen over the winter, and they are going to be free to whomever wants to download them. If someone needs the plans and the manual, I can get them copied, but I would have to charge for that (a pass along for whatever the cost to me is. I'm not going to try to turn a profit on this.

I'm also going to enlarge one for me at about 1/4 scale.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 7:15 PM   
mmattockx


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Bill,

Let me know when you find that whistling pig, I want to see that!

Anyhoo, back to the model... I have e-mailed Hughes500E and got his contact for the plans set and templates and will see where that takes me. I may be back for your scanned parts set, you never know.

I would like to use a gas engine for mine, is a G-26 enough for the 1/5 scale version? If I come in at 15lb, the 26 just seems small. But I am used to aerobatics models with very high thrust to weight ratios. This is not the same thing at all in that respect.

In the mean time, I am going to sit back and watch this thread to get all of the experience and knowledge I can before the day comes to build my own. Good thing I'm not in a hurry...


Thanks,
Mark

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 9:16 PM   
Stickbuilder



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ORIGINAL: mmattockx

Hey Bill,

Let me know when you find that whistling pig, I want to see that!

Anyhoo, back to the model... I have e-mailed Hughes500E and got his contact for the plans set and templates and will see where that takes me. I may be back for your scanned parts set, you never know.

I would like to use a gas engine for mine, is a G-26 enough for the 1/5 scale version? If I come in at 15lb, the 26 just seems small. But I am used to aerobatics models with very high thrust to weight ratios. This is not the same thing at all in that respect.

In the mean time, I am going to sit back and watch this thread to get all of the experience and knowledge I can before the day comes to build my own. Good thing I'm not in a hurry...


Thanks,
Mark


It's virtually impossible to get a gasser to fit without having to butcher the cowl.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 9:35 PM   
mmattockx


 

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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder
It's virtually impossible to get a gasser to fit without having to butcher the cowl.

Bill, AMA 4720
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What is the cowl diameter?


Mark

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 11:02 PM   
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Status: offline 		Mark,
Seems to me you are going around this from the wrong end... The UPF on p8 is 25%, 90" and weighs just under 16lb. Uses a fully articulated, sprung u/c etc, etc... and flies with good aerobatics on a ST G2300 and Bolly 19x8. At 20% you should be aiming for a flying weight of around 10-12lb. With a similar size/power model engine it would almost do unlimited vertical. Re-visit the drawings you have, find some fullsize structural drawings and the start removing that which is un-necessary. If it ain't there it won't weigh anything, and can't break. Those full size designers have done all the hard work for you and just copying them really does work. The UPF space frame is 1/4 sq balsa, and the model has been flying for six years now. Durability is not a problem.
Evan.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/17/2006 11:23 PM   
mmattockx


 

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Mark,
Seems to me you are going around this from the wrong end... The UPF on p8 is 25%, 90" and weighs just under 16lb. Uses a fully articulated, sprung u/c etc, etc... and flies with good aerobatics on a ST G2300 and Bolly 19x8. At 20% you should be aiming for a flying weight of around 10-12lb. With a similar size/power model engine it would almost do unlimited vertical. Re-visit the drawings you have, find some fullsize structural drawings and the start removing that which is un-necessary. If it ain't there it won't weigh anything, and can't break. Those full size designers have done all the hard work for you and just copying them really does work. The UPF space frame is 1/4 sq balsa, and the model has been flying for six years now. Durability is not a problem.
Evan.


I don't have any drawings (yet), I am going from the weight mentioned by Stickbuilder. I am not too concerned with aerobatics, this will be a scale project to use for relaxed flying and some scale aerobatics such as big loops, rolls, a spin or two, etc. The wilder stuff can be done with other planes... I have always been a light builder, so it won't be a tank, but I am more concerned with the look and easy flying for this one.


Mark

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/18/2006 1:36 AM   
mmattockx


 

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At 20% you should be aiming for a flying weight of around 10-12lb.
Evan.


Evan,

I think your numbers are a tad off for this. The 1/5 scale gives a 72" span with around 1500sqin of wing (area according to Stickbuilder). That is bigger than current 2M pattern ships and on par with smaller IMAC stuff. The pattern guys struggle mightily to stay under 11lb with light construction and light equipment. The IMAC guys all think an 80" span Extra should weigh 15lb with a 50cc engine, on around 1200sqin of wing. I can't imagine a scale detailed, dope and fabric covered old time biplane is going to come in lighter than these aircraft. I agree that it is possible to build a 72" span bipe to under 12lb, but it is not going to look like a Pica 1/5 Waco does.

I will know more when I see the plans and can look them over. It may be possible to take a bunch of weight out, but the detailing always adds up. Your UPF is very well done to be that light.


Mark

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/18/2006 3:09 AM   
pimmnz


 

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Status: offline 		Mark,
Not really far off, the Waco has a 25% Pfalz D12 stable mate, been around now for over 10 years, all balsa fuselage, 84" with a 120 four stroke, 10.5 lb AUW. I was reckoning on the 20% Waco falling somewhere between the two. I am not a particularly light builder, but a careful designer... The 25% Monocoupe is as old as the Pfalz, 9.5lb with Saito .80 GK. You see, as you remove weight, then you can use lighter structure, which means lower stresses, which means lighter structure, which means... the old ever decreasing weight spiral. The UPF ended up a bit heavy cause of the Koverall, dope and two pot finish, still the U/C soaks up my bad landings...
Evan.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/18/2006 4:02 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mmattockx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder
It's virtually impossible to get a gasser to fit without having to butcher the cowl.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1



What is the cowl diameter?

I should have the cowl off this weekend to start painting the trim, and I will post the diameter. I will tell you that an OS 160 twin fits inside the cowl with about 3/8th" clearance on each side. I did get a maloney 125 inside the cowl several years ago, but that is a very small engine as well. I saw the new gasser installed in the COX WACO, and as with most gassers the cowl was hacked to pieces on the bottom. To me, if it don't look right, it ain't right.

Bill, AMA 4720
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Mark



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RE: WACO YMF - 11/18/2006 4:12 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Evan,

Good to have you in here. I have built several of these 20% Pica based, and Pica Kitted YMF's, and never had one come in under 14 pounds. Sure, you can eliminate some ribs, and perhaps even a former or so, and you can cut holes in the tail group. You will not eliminate that much weight and keep the structural integrity in this plane. The open framework in this one is also 1/4 square balsa. There is just a lot of wood in this one, and all formers ahead of the wing saddle are ply as well. The wings could be modified to a round leading edge rather than the D-tube wing that is called for, and that would eliminate some weight as well. You could substitute 1/16" sheeting for the heavier sheeting that is called for with the PICA. You could also go and purchase the COX ARF version that is significantly lighter (which tells me that the parts count is lower as is the balsa thickness) and have it residing in the trash bin much more quickly.

Bill, AMA 4720
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