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RE: WACO YMF - 5/22/2007 6:41 PM   
Nightstalker



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ORIGINAL: ronj10

The reason I edited out my post is on hindsite I realized it was inappropriate.
It was only up for a few minutes. Have you ever said something you wanted to take back?
I apologize for letting my emotions get the best of me.
Discretion is the better part of valor.

Anyway, this is how a faired my wing into the fuse on the bottom. The pica kit did not really have any method for doing this. I also added an extra dowel in front. The one per plan may be enough, I dunno, Its not something I wanted to find out during a loop. I built lots of sixty size ships with two dowels, I was a little nervous when I saw that this bigger airplane had only one.
Also, I now wish I had added ply blocks in the wing on the T.E. for the wing screw hold down areas. The balsa is too soft, the big heads of the plastic screws have already made deep impressions in the soft balsa after taking the wing on and off a bunch of times.


Ron - Sorry I high sided as well... that hindsight thing gets me now and again too.

Your wing looks great, by the way. You should consider becoming an Engineer ... (I'm one too.. and that's what really scares me when I build models )

Todd
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/22/2007 7:01 PM   
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Status: offline 		Ron - regarding the problem with your screw heads digging into the balsa, try drilling out the existing thru holes to the dia of your screwheads and then epoxy in hard wood dowels of the appropriate thickness, drill your screw clearance holes thru the dowels and it should beef it up and won't show indentations. You could model it in Solidworks first if you want . If the dowels should ever fail, you've probably got bigger issues at hand. Just a thought.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/22/2007 7:52 PM   
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Status: offline 		That is a good idea that will work even now that it is already covered with film. I had toyed with the idea of major surgery installing ply squares in place of the sheeting, but that dowel idea is a very simple fix.
thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

Ron - regarding the problem with your screw heads digging into the balsa, try drilling out the existing thru holes to the dia of your screwheads and then epoxy in hard wood dowels of the appropriate thickness, drill your screw clearance holes thru the dowels and it should beef it up and won't show indentations. You could model it in Solidworks first if you want . If the dowels should ever fail, you've probably got bigger issues at hand. Just a thought.

Todd
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/22/2007 8:25 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hey All. Can someone show me a simple line drawing of a Waco YMF wingtip? I just want to make sure I get it right. A front view will do, thanks.
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/22/2007 9:10 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronj10

That is a good idea that will work even now that it is already covered with film. I had toyed with the idea of major surgery installing ply squares in place of the sheeting, but that dowel idea is a very simple fix.
thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

Ron - regarding the problem with your screw heads digging into the balsa, try drilling out the existing thru holes to the dia of your screwheads and then epoxy in hard wood dowels of the appropriate thickness, drill your screw clearance holes thru the dowels and it should beef it up and won't show indentations. You could model it in Solidworks first if you want . If the dowels should ever fail, you've probably got bigger issues at hand. Just a thought.

Todd
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Hey no sweat Ron, glad to help out. Can't remember where I saw this or read about it, but I didn't think it up originally. Should work and will be quick and easy compared to surgery.

And who says that Damn Nightstalker never posts on topic I might get used to this on topic stuff... but don't hold me to it... I'm an incureable wise a$$

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:07 AM   
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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

To All:

...This is a Brotherhood. ... If you have a problem with this, why not start your own thread? ...Impose rules for membership. Look in the mirror and breathe deeply 5 times before you post something that is guarenteed to start a fight. This is all I will say on this subject.

Bill, AMa 4720
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WOW! brotherhood? or dictatorship! >you think a post like this won't ruffle some feathers?

I didn't realize someone "owned" this thread up until now.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:16 AM   
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Status: online 		Bill, i forgot... if you "own" the brotherhood as well would you take me (#55) and Vrtulka (#55) off the list pls.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:21 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vasek


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

To All:

...This is a Brotherhood. ... If you have a problem with this, why not start your own thread? ...Impose rules for membership. Look in the mirror and breathe deeply 5 times before you post something that is guarenteed to start a fight. This is all I will say on this subject.

Bill, AMa 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


WOW! brotherhood? or dictatorship! >you think a post like this won't ruffle some feathers?

I didn't realize someone "owned" this thread up until now.



If there's any "ownership" to this thread, it should belong to Stickbuilder, he started it and has long been its prime mover and shaker. That plus the kind of person he is should give him the right to say whatever the hell he wants here. I've watched and read and listened to all this ankle nipping and haven't said anything til now. If you don't like what you see here, go somewhere else. The rest of us will all be better for it.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		Bill. Your words of wisdom was followed by me a few day's ago. I'm glad I took a deep breath and relaxed. LIfe must be very good for all of us to be able to spend time on this thread and play with our model aircraft.

Thanks for leading and keeping us on the right track.

Doug
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< Message edited by bart5495 -- 5/23/2007 12:25 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:28 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vasek

Bill, i forgot... if you "own" the brotherhood as well would you take me (#55) and Vrtulka (#55) off the list pls.

Thank you,
Vasek


Vasek,

No one owns this thread (except RCU). However, someone must keep the peace. I am simply stating that this is a free wheeling thread, but the antics of the last few days will tear the whole thing apart. If I must, I will (as the originator of the thread) ask for the thread to be closed. This thread is too much fun to have ruined. Hope you see things the same way. Please go and look in the mirror, take 5 deep breaths and see if you feel the same way. I will do whatever you wish, regarding your membership.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 5/23/2007 12:29 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:31 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: vasek


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

To All:

...This is a Brotherhood. ... If you have a problem with this, why not start your own thread? ...Impose rules for membership. Look in the mirror and breathe deeply 5 times before you post something that is guarenteed to start a fight. This is all I will say on this subject.

Bill, AMa 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


WOW! brotherhood? or dictatorship! >you think a post like this won't ruffle some feathers?

I didn't realize someone "owned" this thread up until now.


If you are going to quote what I said, please make the quote complete, and not out of context.

Bill, AMa 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:39 AM   
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khodges


I have been looking at your tail wheel set up and am impressed. Is this set up on the plans or is it something you or some one else has designed? I will be getting my plans from AMA soon and trying to do my home work. Thanks and please keep the pics coming they are priceless to me as this will be my first build from plans only.


Dan, the tailwheel is all my design, except the wheel and hub which is a Klett tailwheel. I scratchbuilt the legs from brass tubing and piano wire, based on measurements I made of closeups rom the 'net. I had originally had it fitting into the mount included with the ARF, but it had no shock absorption; it came apart on me the other day at a spot I had feared was weak. I also had no isolation between it and the servo to prevent shock damage to the servo, which also drives the rudder; the Master Chief had some good suggestions as well as Jay, or John, can't remember who posted it, about using nose gear nylon mounts. After I got to playing with things, I mocked up something similar to what you saw, it seemed to work, so I made the one you see in the most recent posts.

The spring linkage at the servo works really well to isolate shock loads transmitted from the tailwheel via the control rod. The spring loading on the tailwheel is a compromise, though. It will give under vertical loads (to the tailwheel shaft), but real-life loads have a vector more at 45-60 degrees to the shaft because the plane is moving forward. The full-scale tailwheel is sprung so that it gives rearward and pivots about a horizontal axis. Mine is susceptible to shear loads that the full scale avoids. Here is a picture of the scale assembly for either the Genesis or Barth (can't remember which), which is the same basic design as the full scale. I am happy to post pics of how I made the forks for mine, if you like.

When I pulled up the pic, my caption says "Palmer tailwheel"

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:40 AM   
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Status: offline 		On a lighter note:
two polish guys from Brooklyn hired a piolet to fly them to Canada to hunt moose. They bagged six. As they were loading the plane for the trip home, the piolet told them they could only take three moose. The two guys objected strongly, stating " last year we shot six moose and the piolet let us take all six on the airplane, and it was the same type of plane as yours".
Reluctantly, the piolet agreed and all six moose were loaded on the plane. Unfortunatly, even at full power, the plane couldn't handle the load and crashed shortly after take-off. Climbing out of the wreck, one of the brothers asked where they were at. " I think we are close to where we crashed last year" his brother told him.


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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 12:59 AM   
khodges


 

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ORIGINAL: mango12

Hey All. Can someone show me a simple line drawing of a Waco YMF wingtip? I just want to make sure I get it right. A front view will do, thanks.
Bro 49


Surely someone will have something more "formal" than this, such as a plans drawing or some such, but do these help? Remember, this is an ARF wing, so the structure may not look like yours. The tip design is mine, done from photo blowups and careful proportional measurements. I reused the lit-ply "D" shaped ring on the wingtip, but re-angled it and relocated it on the end rib. The braces out to the tip are 1/16 in carbon fiber strips with a balsa wedge to brace them. Everything is slightly recessed except the last rib, so nothing but the rib shows when covered. I feel like they are as close to the prototype's tips as any model's.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 1:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks Ken!! That clears up alot for me. Unfortunatly, it means reconstruction time. I don't know what mine turned out looking like, but they ain't right!! I'll have to saw off the two outermost ribs but think it"ll be a quick correction.


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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 1:50 AM   
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Status: offline 		mango,

I don't have any YMF photos yet, but these are a YKS wing tips (both wings from the same plane). Not the exact view you are looking for. If you look close the wings are constructed a little different from each other, but the end result is the same. I'll be back up to CCA on 2 June and can get the head on views you need (of the YKS, UPF-7, UBA or others). NC 155Y, Texaco 17, a UBF-2, shows the wing tip curving up towards the high point from the last full rib (lower wing). NC 173E (Blue UPF-7), the upper wing shows the upward taper (sorry about the glare). The UMF/YMF were the forerunners to the UPF-7.

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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 5/23/2007 1:55 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 1:52 AM   
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Status: offline 		Here is what I have The taper starts further in on the wing as I see it
TR
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< Message edited by trlambsr -- 5/23/2007 2:15 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 2:26 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yea, it looks like it starts on about the third rib in. Luckily I only boobooed the last two..........I think. Thanks for all the help guys.
B-49


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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 5:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		Okay guys. More pictures as promised.

Having the Master Airscrew Balsa Stripper attached to the table lets you feed the balsa through it much like using a table saw. Much easier than trying to hold the wood and the stripper at the same time.

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< Message edited by damifino -- 5/23/2007 5:36 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 5:40 AM   
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Status: offline 		Welcome SoCalSal!! Glad you are here! Beautiful bird, too.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 6:01 AM   
Nightstalker



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Status: offline 		Awesome pics! "Will the REAL Engineer please stand up..." (Yeah, that would be you Jay ) Thanks for sharing those.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 6:10 AM   
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Status: offline 		SoCalSal---As soon as I quit slobbering while looking at your plane, I'll say how good it looks. Has someone recently (within 6 months or so) posted a video of it putting on an impromptu airshow? I saw one a while back, the plane had a radial and seems like it was the color of yours. It was in Southern Cal from the background landscape. heck of a show. Welcome to the 'Hood.

Well, it flies. (Mine that is) I went to the field this evening, took the UMF, my Bristol M-1, and my DR-1. Warmed up on the Bristol, then the Fokker. Decided it was do or die, I didn't build no hangar queen. I gassed up the WACO, warmed it up and taxied to the runway, turned into the wind and rolled on the power. It came off the ground in about 75 feet, I looked like a newbie with an Avistar, jerking it around until I got a feel for the throws (too much elevator, too much aileron, too much rudder) I had programmed in a bunch of expo, and it saved me from overcontrolling into the ground. After the first lap, I got settled down, just flew around making standard turns, playing with flying speeds,, got it trimmed (four clicks down elevator and a couple clicks right aileron, no rudder changes) and I went high and stalled it a couple of times to see what it did. Stalls are straight ahead, and you really got to slow it down or use a lot of elevator to make it happen. Even at 18 pounds, it didn't want to quit flying when I came in to land. My throttle needs adjustment, most of the butterfly movement is in the first half of the stick, so I don't have as much stick for fine control at low throttle settings. I wanted to make a wheel landing, but the difference between flying it in at 1/4 throttle and idle was about two clicks on the stick, and I got slowed down and three pointed it. That was okay, but it was a bit bouncy. I flew for about ten or twelve minutes, didn't use half of a tank.

One of our club members was there with his camera (he shoots races for NASCAR) and he made some great shots. As soon as he e-mails them to me, I'll post them. One of the guys watching said after I landed that he wished somebody had stuck a lump of coal up my backside before I took off, we'd all be rich now Ahhh, the power of pucker.

< Message edited by khodges -- 5/23/2007 6:13 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 6:18 AM   
Nightstalker



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Congrats, Sir!!! I take back that "Chicken s**t" jab . I bet you sleep like a baby tonight (err, Air Force Officer). All that adrenaline is good for deep, sound sleep. Can't wait to see the flight shots. What's the Air Force term for BRAVO ZULU?

Out Here
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 6:29 AM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mango12

Yea, it looks like it starts on about the third rib in. Luckily I only boobooed the last two..........I think. Thanks for all the help guys.
B-49


Scott, You and triambsr are probably correct, the taper does start further in than I have it. I sanded the bottom of the last rib in the wing structure through the cap strip (3/32) and tried to start the taper further in than I did, but with that part of the wing already built (ARF, you know) I was limited with what I could do unless I took more of the wing down. It took me an entire weekend to get the tips like I wanted (and I mean the WHOLE weekend, 4 hours Fri night and 8 or 10 hours Sat, about 5 hours Sunday) Take a look at the tips as they come on the ARF, they're nowhere near correct:

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/23/2007 7:11 AM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks N'stalker. I've said it before, this scratchbuilding thing is really great. For me it's a great fit. I do similar work for my real job everyday, except that it's on race cars.

I now have a vacuum pump (a discarded de-humidifer compressor) that will fill the bill for vacuum bagging some hatch doors, CORRUGATED CONTROL SURFACES, and odds and ends.

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