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RE: WACO YMF - 5/30/2007 8:56 PM   
Nightstalker



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quote:

ORIGINAL: RC Outlaw


Gets to the point that the brighter the shine the heavier the PLANE The reason we use cloth is to see that it is cloth you want to see the weave and the seams.
Larry


When I was a kid (yeah I know Bill... I'm still a kid ) I used to slop on um-teen coats of paint with minimal if any sanding between coats because I didn't know better. I even remember my Dad sarcastically telling me he could have painted 10 airplanes with the amount of paint I would brush on. 12 year olds don't understand the concept of less means lighter. Same thing with adhesives - 3 tubes of ambroid for a 1/2A Ringmaster???... well they flew believe it or not.

The reason I requested some details on how you guys finish your planes is for both shine and lightness. I think that you can have a lightweight finish that is both shiney and shows the texture of the fabric. Shine shouldn't affect the AUW if you know how to get light coats buffed out and waxed properly - not one of my fortes - yet

Thanks
Todd
WACO Brotherhood #47




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RE: WACO YMF - 5/30/2007 9:53 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Todd, It requires a light touch with the sanding, combined with a very fine grit paper. As with any good finish, You should be able to apply a uniform, light coating to begin, followed by enough sanding with Wet paper to completely flatten the finish, followed by a compounding and waxing to restore the shine. The weave of the fabric needs to remain lightly visible, while the areas that replicate a solid panel should eliminate the weave to replicate painted aluminum. It is quite a trick, but once mastered is well worth the effort.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 1:54 AM   
flyguy888



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I complained about off topic 75 threads ago. Not since.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Nightstalker...

Stickbuilder has been very busy for the past few days, and by the time that we close, the Puter repair geeks have all gone home (or to wherever the geeks go). I have been paying attention at work to what is happening on the thread, but I haven't had much time to respond. Did I see where you posted that you have been called down for posting off topic??? Who dares to do that? This is a Brotherhood, and not some dry insert tab A into slot B thread. Tell them to get a life the next time that happens. I think I know who might be the culprit there. The puter parts are on the way, and I will have to take the tower to the shop to get the new hard drive installed, and the interface hooked up to the old hard drive (so I don't lose everything). Should be done by the first of the week. I'm also fighting with my homeowners and auto insurance company. Seems as though they don't want to do business in Florida any longer. I have never filed a claim against them, but they say that they have too many customers in this state, so they are not going to renew mine. Looks as if they have forgotten what a risk is. Isn't that the premise of an insurance company??? So much for that.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1



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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 2:11 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: online 		Guys,

To those of you building the 1/6th version from the PDF plans (see http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ ) note that the dihedral supports (W-11B on the 1/5th plan) are not shown for the front spars (upper and lower) on either the top or bottom wing. I will be making all the W-11 supports for my 1/6th wings about 7-8" long to span from inside the last W-1 Rib to the outside of the 2nd W-5 Rib from either 3/32" or 1/8" plywood (not lite ply). It may seem like overkill to some, but I would not want a wing failure from lack of structure.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 5/31/2007 2:13 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 2:16 AM   
kestrel0222



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From: Milford, MI, USA
Status: offline 		skylarkmk1,

Thanks for the update!! I am in the process of building the 1/6th version from the PDF plans that you mentioned. I'll be sure to add the supports as you have described them.

Thanks,

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 2:53 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I butted mine together with a lap over joiner in the center, and extended them out to the 3rd rib in the wing. The original version is a guarenteed wing failure.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 2:54 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Ron,

Do you work for an insurance company? or were you talking about the off topic thing????? I was not referring to you in my post.

Bill, AMa 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 3:23 AM   
flyguy888



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From: coon rapids, MN, USA
Status: offline 		no, I was responding to the off topic thing. I always read the posts, even though much of it does'nt teach me much. But the forum is a good place for people to socialize and feel connected. I just breeze by the conversations and look for the hard info. I'm not much of a conversationalist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Ron,

Do you work for an insurance company? or were you talking about the off topic thing????? I was not referring to you in my post.

Bill, AMa 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1



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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 4:34 AM   
Hughes500E



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Status: offline 		I'm just too embarrassed to post after the wing incidence thing but it wasn't me doing the PM'ing either

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 4:49 AM   
damifino



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From: Winston Salem, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I double checked my recieved payments (MO's and PayPal) for the WACO tees. Unless I mis-posted someone's name in my spreedsheet the posted list is correct. Here is a link to the page containing post #2645 on page 106 of our thread.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4058627/mpage_106/key_/tm.htm

If you have a concern about your payment not being posted please send me a Private Message ASAP. Please include your real name and city in your PM.

Thank you,
Jay

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 5:16 AM   
tomcraig



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Status: offline 		Funny you mentioned buying a scroll saw because i just went out and bought a 12 band saw to use when I can get started. Does anyone have an idea of how many 10 packs of 5/32 balsa is needed

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 6:06 AM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		I bought 20 3" X 36" sheets to get started with and it may be enough.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 12:07 PM   
old git


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: damifino

I bought 20 3" X 36" sheets to get started with and it may be enough.


I'm glad to see that you are able to get on with modeling after all your hard work on our much appreciated T shirts.

And yes, I too miss STICKBUILDER. When my PC confuser collapsed and died I bought an Apple Mac Power Book. After about a year the hard drive on the Apple died and some data was saved by transferring it to the new hard drive (Techies did it for me). I also bought (at my son's recommendation) a big capacity standalone hard drive to save all my data. I was saving about a year of eBay engine pictures and prices when that drive failed. My son hadn't gone through the procedure of using the back up facility to make a DVD copy, I'm too old and stupid to get these new ideas into my thick skull. I wish him better luck.

I recently went through the agonies of the failure of my BMW - ($900), the failure and resulting flood from a house radiator check valve - ($infinate) and the failure of my cable TV - ($???), numerous hospital visits and tests resulting in a diagnosis of (?????).

Life gits tedious don't it.

I have been enjoying BOTH the technical and the off subject posts despite not following all the service jargon (I served two years in the Merchant Marine and four years in the Royal Air Force), gives me something interesting to think about. More power to the Brotherhood.

WACO Brotherhood No. 14.

old git - - - - - aka John L.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 5:00 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Ron,

Wish you would join in more often. You are a great source of information too. We need all our Brothers to contribute. Good to hear from you.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 5:02 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		2 packs will give you plenty. You may want to consider doing the sheeting out of 1/8" instead of the 5/32. It does finish easier. You iwll probably end up with less than 1/8" thickness at any rate.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 6:06 PM   
ag4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Bill,

As Nighstalker said, I too would love a play by play recap of how you paint your planes. I just started covering my Hog Bipe, and I think I am understanding how to get the Koverall on it decently. (Still need to figure out the trailing edge detail where it comes to a thin surface and the inside corners at the ailerons.) I am sure I put way to much dope on the airframe prior to starting covering, but heck this is an experimental plane anyways, and the Hog Bipe should fly fine even if it is too heavy.

As for insurance, I was told a few years back it is the ONLY industry where you are guaranteed a profit. If you lose money this year, you just raise the premiums next year to make it back. The only proble for them is when the government keeps them from raising their rates and excluding the damages they actually have to pay out on, so they in turn just decide to not do busines in the staes that actually try to protect the consumer. Texas had the same problem recently where Farmers and a couple other companies sent notices out to their insurred complaining about unfair treatment by the state so they were not goign to renew any homeowner policies in Texas. I felt so sorry for them that i cancelled all my policies with them and found a different insurer. They can take your money for many years with no claims, but the first time you actually expect them to be there for you, they up and vanish. Crooks I tell ya, crooks. It is so bad now that our deductible on the commercial construction builder's risk policy is $10,000 per incident just to get the premium down to affordable rates. That is sad that you can have a few $10,000 deductable charges to a project and it is still cheaper than the insurance rates for a cheaper deductable.

Damifino,

Any news on the increased shipping rates? Let me know if you need some supplemental shipping funds.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 6:35 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I normally cover the wings in one piece, starting with the bottom trailing edge, and letting the material cover the last 1/2" or so, I adhere the fabric to the bottom and wrap it over the top and back to the trailing edge (this allows a 1/2" lap. I then dope the trailing edge down, and trim all the excess off. After all the perimeters have been adhered, and the fabric has been shrunk, I apply full strength dope to all the edges (2 coats) and after the dope has dried, sand the fuzz off with 400 wet or dry (dry). This way, you can't find the seams and as you add the 50/50 mixture of dope and thinner, and sand between the coats, the seam becomes completely invisible. Just don't get carried away with the sanding, and you should be okay.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 6:47 PM   
flyguy888



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From: coon rapids, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I have not had much to say because of all the mods I am making to my waco due to the threads of a couple months ago. I am adding cabling to my tail feathers as well as redoing the wing saddle to bring it into alignment with the crutch. I built it per plan without really looking at it at the time (stupid). It is alot of work redoing the wing saddle. The top wing is easy, it was very close to parallel to the crutch already. Just a thin washer to shim it on two upper struts.
Oh, and by the way, I aint tearing my plane apart to redo the center spar joints, that is just way too much work. I used alot of epoxy when I did them. I will redo them after it folds up in flight .
My flying skills are low speed flight with the occasional loop and roll. The steel flying wires I am adding on my wings will have to compensate for any weakness in the center wing spar joints.
Oh, and I am adding rubber baby buggy bumbers to my wing tips for those low speed take offs when it p-factors into the weeds .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Ron,

Wish you would join in more often. You are a great source of information too. We need all our Brothers to contribute. Good to hear from you.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1



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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 7:00 PM   
Nightstalker



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronj10

Oh, and I am adding rubber baby buggy bumbers to my wing tips for those low speed take offs when it p-factors into the weeds .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Ron,

Wish you would join in more often. You are a great source of information too. We need all our Brothers to contribute. Good to hear from you.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1




Ditto Stickbuilder, Ron - Glad to see you posting here more frequently . Looking back through this thread, you had some really good posts - and you're a CAD savvy Engineer (but I won't hold that against you... like some might ) Oh, and you might want to draw up a set of those rubber baby buggy bumpers for a certain former Air Force Lt. ... Just kidding Ken!

Hey did you get a chance to try that dowel / wing screw trick? Let us know how that works.

Todd
WACO Brotherhood #47

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 7:05 PM   
mango12


 

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From: duncanville, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys, I need some help. Without going all the way through what has now become this online book , can someone tell me the best type of hinges to use on the ailerons, and suggest how to install "invisible " control horns on said control surface? Please remember mine is the 1/4 scale version. Thanks


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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 7:28 PM   
skylarkmk1



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From: Festus, MO, USA
Status: online 		Mango,

The full size Wacos use top hinge ailerons (piano hinge) and the control horns on the lower ailerons are ball links. The full size control rod is totally exposed from th bellcrank to the control horn. The upper ailerons are driven by the aileron conecting rod attached near the trailing edge of the ailerons.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 9:20 PM   
ag4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Bill,

Do you make sure every inch is covered with fabric?

I have a couple spots where it would be impossible to cove the entire wing with one piece. These are the corners of the aileron pockets where I had to slit the fabric to allow it to wrap around the trailing edge of the hinge surface and still extend down to the knife edge portion of the trailing edge. I was thinking about either leaving them without fabric or just doping on a bit of scrap fabric to cover these areas.

Either way, the top wing really is starting to look like something now that it has fabric on it.

I plan to start the bottom wing tonight using some of the knowledge I got from doing the top wing to change how I apply the fabric.

The main difference is I plan to finish the trailing edge of the bottom of the wing with a finished edge then wrap the fabric aroud the front and back to the trailing edge and do the lap joint then. On the top I just tacked it down to the top surface of the trailing edge and then wrapped the wing and tacked it down to the bottom surface which meant I had to do both final trailing edge wraps at the same time which was not fun triming and sticking the fabric down like that.

Robert

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/31/2007 11:39 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		That will work as well. On the aileron pocket, I do cover the pocket first with a seperate piece, and seal to the edge with the main covering. (forgot that part )

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/1/2007 1:40 AM   
mrdhud



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From: Bartow, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hello all

I'm making an order for balsa. Question the main wing spars should they be balsa or hard wood. Can't find any thing on plans that say.

Bill

I read your post on using 1/8 sheeting insted of 5/32 Good for me I read all the posts thanks I will use the 1/8

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/1/2007 1:51 AM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

Oh, and you might want to draw up a set of those rubber baby buggy bumpers for a certain former Air Force Lt.




I resemble that remark . the only other "fix" I could come up with was to do a "Jimmy Franklin" to it, and mount a jet engine between the wheels.

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Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

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