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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 4:38 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Thanks to ChrisMH, the Supplimental Web Site, House of Moy http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ , has been updated with an updated Plans, Kits and Documentation List (more stuff) and a partial Index to this site (and more). The Index is still being cataloged and updated as I get time. The first column is the subject, 2nd - author, 3rd - Initial post #, 4th - page #, 5th - more info about the subject and/or the location of the subject if not on this thread. And yes, I have noticed some mistakes (after posting) that I will be correcting. Hope this will help you find things that have been posted on this monster thread.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 6:44 AM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		Ken- Couldn't make it today. I had enough time to fly my Super Skybolt 3 times though. Sorry about your crash. Do you know about the 8th annual IMAA Fly-in near Salisbury NC next weekend (June 9 &10)? I'm planning on going down for one of the days. Oh, I forgot, you are going to Ohio, right? Tell Ernie and some of those guys about it. Have you ever been to it? For those who have not been to it the facility is fantastic; a private grass airfield used for this Fly-in every year. The Statesville Model Flyers put on the event.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 6:06 PM   
old git


 

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ORIGINAL: khodges

Building with animal hair conjures up images I don't even want to think about, especially given the connotations of beaver fur in other context



Could you be referring to my Ikon'N West Beaver? I don't think so, too many vacuum formed moldings.

Sorry you lost your model but you missed the main advantage, not only do you have the machinery for another model going begging but you also have room in the hangar for more, probably the most important advantage.



WACO Brotherhood No. 14.

old git - - - - - - aka John L.


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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 7:24 PM   
mrdhud



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I am laying out the 1/8" ply dihedral wing braces they will be 12" long from center extending out three wing ribs. Using my protractor set at 2 degrees this gives me 13/16" clearance at the end of spar. Does this sound right?? I hate to muff this part up.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 7:26 PM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		I read about the event in the AMA Calendar. I'd like to go, depends on what the wife already has planned. I don't fly out to Creve Couer til the following Thursday. I'll certainly pass the word, I'm sure Ernie or some others might make it. Do you have a link to directions from Statesville, either I-40 or I-77?

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 7:37 PM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: old git

but you missed the main advantage, not only do you have the machinery for another model going begging but you also have room in the hangar for more, probably the most important advantage.




Funny you mention that. My storage was at the point that I have to keep one plane on the worktable, and then move them around like one of those little puzzles until I got the one I needed on the table to work on it. What I'd really like is a bigger shop.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 7:46 PM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		Ken- Take I-77 to Statesville Exit 49-A. Go east on Hwy 70 to Rowan Co. Line (about 8 miles). Field is on the left behind Shaver Wood Products. Watch for signs. Let me know what day you might go.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/3/2007 9:12 PM   
Michaelj2k



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Status: offline 		Dope and fabric covering. Here's what I do.

1. After the part is covered, spray two coats of nitrate in a 70% thinner, 30% dope mix. This allows the dope to penetrate and encapuslate the fibers. Note: For synthetic fabrics (Stits, Coverall, Ceconite) unless sprayed (or rolled or brushed) really thin, the dope will sit on top of the fabric surface and not penetrate the fibers. I literally peeled the dope finish from a PT-19 rudder that was not done correctly. With natural fabrics (silk, cotton) the dope will be absorbed very quickly. Natural fabrics will fill much faster than synthetic fabrics.

2. Spray two coats of butyrate clear to the same ratios as above. You still need the dope to penetrate the synthetic fabrics and lock it to the fibers. Natural fabrics will start to fill.

3. Spray two or three coats of silver butyrate buildup dope. This stuff has fine aluminum powder added to help prevent the fabric from absorbing UV light which can degrade the covering over time. LIGHTLY wet sand off one coat of the silver dope using 320 paper or higher and try not to sand on the ribs. Thoroughly wash down the part and allow to dry When sanding, dump in a bit of hand dish washing soap into your water bucket. It acts as a "lubricant" for the sandpaper. Spray one more coat of silver to cover and protect the fabric. Silver is used to prevent that opaque look to doped finishes. It may be nice to have that "see through" look on a vintage R/C assist free flight but not a scale model!

4. Spray two coats of white. White acts as a base coat for all pigmented color dopes. Sand if needed, same procedure as above but use 400 or 600 paper.

5. Spray your pigmented colors, lighter colors first then dark. Use several light coats, not one heavy coat.

6. Allow the part to "cure" for at least 72 hours then spray a batch of dope, thinner, retarter in @ a 40%, 30%, 30% mix. Note that this will be super thin so try to spray a light, wet coat and keep the part as flat as possible to prevent sags. Allow to cure for at least a week then rub with fine rubbing compound and add a coat of wax. The end result should be a nice shiny finish (Nightstalker would be proud) with enough dope that allows the fabric weave to be seen.

Note: When using silk or cotton, use a taughtening nitrate and butyrate dope. Synthetic fabrics should use a non-taughtening dope. Try to use products from the same manufacturer. Brodak is Randolph dope, Sig is a different formula.

Of course, when using the Stits process fill the fabric according to the manufacturers instructions. The same for the polyurethane, water based or other finishing systems.

FMI: http://www.conaircraft.com/

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/4/2007 2:57 AM   
Jim Henley


 

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Status: offline 		Today, started brushing nitrate on the fuse, and tail feathers. I'll let that sit and cure a while and then see if it needs more dope to fill or if I can start with the primer. Wow! I fogot how strong dope fumes are, this is the first dope job I've done in years. Once I get the fuse and tail feathers sealed with the nitrate I'll start the wings. With any luck, I'll get this thing finished by Labor Day...


< Message edited by Jim Henley -- 6/4/2007 2:59 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/4/2007 4:38 AM   
skylarkmk1



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In the long manual for the 1/5th WACO, for the top wing on page 9, step 1 and 2 are the steps for the wing dihedral brace/spar assembly. At the last W-6 RIB (outer most), the manual state 7/8" is equal to 2°. If you draw the center spar flat, at W-3/W-4 measure out the distance to the last W-6 and measure up 7/8" and that will be the 2° angle.

For the bottom wing on page 16, step 2 has the measurement at 3/4" for 2°, but the bottom wing is a little shorter from W-3/W-4 to W-6.

Check the measurements from w-3/W-4 to W-6 and adjust accordingly. On the 1/6 WACO this works out to be just under 11/16" (.7291) for the top wing and 5/8" (.625) for the bottom.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/4/2007 6:21 AM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		Worked on all the 'T' formers today. Cut all from 3" X 36" X 5/32" Sig balsa and used Forstner bits for the lightening holes. From start to finish these took 2 hrs and 45 minutes.

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< Message edited by damifino -- 6/4/2007 6:23 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/4/2007 12:04 PM   
Hughes500E



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Status: offline 		I remember when I started cutting out all the parts for my Waco, what a job. Today I finished covering the fuselage and my wife says," I remember when you first started cutting pieces". Too funny, we're both enjoying the many stages of scratchbuilding. An even more enjoyable experience, we left our two young boys to fend for themselves and we headed off to a Float Fly. After visiting for awhile we found ourselves admiring a 1/5th kit built YMF on floats. Who'd of known we would run into this. We thought mine would be the only one around for miles!


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RE: WACO YMF - 6/4/2007 6:38 PM   
Nightstalker



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Status: offline 		Michael - Thanks for the info on your covering and finishing methods. I am studying as many techniques as I can, and will probably use the information to come up with my own "Doggie" methods . Hey speaking of purdy, shiney aero'chines - how are those new fangled Chinooks going up there at Boeing? You guys are up to F and G models I read. Wow - I started in Super Chucks (C models with L-712 engines) then D's / MH-Ds (I crewed one of the first original MH-D models with aerial refueling probe - tail# 342 at Ft. Campbell) and then got out right before the 160th got their first Echo models. Man I'm feeling old - Thanks again for the tips on finishing.

Todd
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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 12:43 AM   
mrdhud



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Thanks for the info sounds easy enough. MAN !!! I have a new found APPRECIATION for you scratch builders. I spent most of the weekend cutting out wing ribs had about 1/2 done and threw every one in the trash. To much double sided tape, saw not cutting square, and trying to use a drum sander on my drill press. But fear not this is only a set back.

Think I need to do some adjusting on my scroll saw and look into buying some kind of sander ( any suggestions ) I only lost about six pc of 5/32 balsa so I dont feel to bad I ordered 30 pc. At lest I learn from my mistakes. Back to the drawing board. Keep up all the good work your doing.

Thanks


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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 2:48 AM   
Michaelj2k



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

Michael - Thanks for the info on your covering and finishing methods. I am studying as many techniques as I can, and will probably use the information to come up with my own "Doggie" methods . Hey speaking of purdy, shiney aero'chines - how are those new fangled Chinooks going up there at Boeing? You guys are up to F and G models I read. Wow - I started in Super Chucks (C models with L-712 engines) then D's / MH-Ds (I crewed one of the first original MH-D models with aerial refueling probe - tail# 342 at Ft. Campbell) and then got out right before the 160th got their first Echo models. Man I'm feeling old - Thanks again for the tips on finishing.

Todd
WACO Brotherhood #47



Crankin' em out! We're trying to get them delivered ASAP cause some good guys need them now and are working them hard. Right now I'm messing with the V-22 Osprey at NAS Pax River, MD. doin' things the Navy/Marine way. Jeez, I have an airshow everyday!

A couple of things I forgot about doping.....use a good filter mask so you don't breathe in the dope. Spray in the hot sun as this will help the cure process. And, those nasty little gnats and bugs will be drawn to your work just by the smell. They especially like yellow because it's bright and smells so nice. If you get blushing in the initial coats, don't worry because you will be using retarter in your final coats.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 2:50 AM   
Jim Henley


 

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I have an elementry question, how do you know when you have the fabric filled with sufficiant Nitrate? I have two coats brushed on reduced with thinner 50 / 50, just like the instructions say to. I only have the fuselage and tail feathers doped out, I want to make sure I am getting the dope on correctly before tackling the wings. ( I will also want to check the incidence one last time in case I need to tweak things before covering them in dope.
Thanks!

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 3:22 AM   
skylarkmk1



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The manual and the plans say all the ribs are 1/8" stock not 5/32". Save some weight and $$$. Suggest making a good accurate template of the parts (1/16" to 1/8" ply, light aluminum, etc.) and use this to cut you ribs out. You can save the template to make another plane or as patterns for repairs.

On your saw, square it up if you can, place a square against the blade and table. A simple way of checking is to take a piece of thicker stock, make a cut and flip one of the pieces over top to bottom (180°) and push them back together. If it is square, the pieces will fit, if not you will have a gap and will need to adjust your saw accordingly.

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 4:34 AM   
Nightstalker



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michaelj2k


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightstalker

Michael - Thanks for the info on your covering and finishing methods. I am studying as many techniques as I can, and will probably use the information to come up with my own "Doggie" methods . Hey speaking of purdy, shiney aero'chines - how are those new fangled Chinooks going up there at Boeing? You guys are up to F and G models I read. Wow - I started in Super Chucks (C models with L-712 engines) then D's / MH-Ds (I crewed one of the first original MH-D models with aerial refueling probe - tail# 342 at Ft. Campbell) and then got out right before the 160th got their first Echo models. Man I'm feeling old - Thanks again for the tips on finishing.

Todd
WACO Brotherhood #47



Crankin' em out! We're trying to get them delivered ASAP cause some good guys need them now and are working them hard. Right now I'm messing with the V-22 Osprey at NAS Pax River, MD. doin' things the Navy/Marine way. Jeez, I have an airshow everyday!

A couple of things I forgot about doping.....use a good filter mask so you don't breathe in the dope. Spray in the hot sun as this will help the cure process. And, those nasty little gnats and bugs will be drawn to your work just by the smell. They especially like yellow because it's bright and smells so nice. If you get blushing in the initial coats, don't worry because you will be using retarter in your final coats.

Yeah - Like we got hot sun here in Arizona And as far as blushing goes, well... sometimes my finishes are embarassing Oh, and what are flying bugs? It's the damn scorpions that will really do a nice finish in (and the finisher). If I see'em, I dope'em - point blank... kinda like a mini gun burst - but not near as loud (or spectacular).

Thanks Mike!

Out Here
Todd
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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 7:56 AM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		The tee shirts have been ordered and the printer says they will do 'em Thursday. I've ordered a few extras just in case. Hopefully we'll be able to ship them out on the 11 th or 12th of June (yeah, yeah, this year).

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 8:55 AM   
Hughes500E



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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 2:20 PM   
damifino



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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 6:15 PM   
SoCalSal


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: damifino

The tee shirts have been ordered and the printer says they will do 'em Thursday. I've ordered a few extras just in case. Hopefully we'll be able to ship them out on the 11 th or 12th of June (yeah, yeah, this year).



WOW I like it!! Kind of looks like my 33% YMF5 "MissLinney" Glad I ordered 2
Waco Brotherhood #46


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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 8:01 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Ken and the Wing Tip Worriers,

I went up to the Airport on 2 June, examined and took photos of the YKS and UPF-7 wing tips. As each wing was handcrafted, minor variations in tip shape can be expected and close inspection of the wing tips of most Wacos would reveal that all four tips are slightly different. YKS photos are bare and covered, UPF-7 are Dk. Blue/Lt. Blue (lower left wing tip and uppeer right wing tip).

Bottom Taper - Along the trailing edge of the wing in the aileron bay, the Aileron Spar (W-13) starts to taper about halfway between W-6 #3 and W-6 #4 (I now call W-6a) (picture 1). The main Front and Rear Spars start to taper at W-6a.

Top Taper – The taper starts at W-7 to the tip at the Rib high point with the Top of W-8 about ½” lower than W-7 and the Top of the Wing Tip about ¾” lower than W-8 (picture 2). Measurements are for full size (see photo). Follow the ½” square stick -Note that W-6a has a spacer under the top of the rib, W-7 has a cap strip and W-8, the stick is attached directly to the rib. This slight taper make the upper taper hard to see head on as the most visible part is in the forward portion of the wing (see wing tip end view, pictures 3, 4, 7).


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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 6/5/2007 8:47 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/5/2007 10:13 PM   
trlambsr


 

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Super great pictures. Just what we needed. Great job. This will raise the bar on what the Model wing should look like. I Sent them on to Dany at Genesis.
TR
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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2007 1:09 AM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Ken and the Wing Tip Worriers,


close inspection of the wing tips of most Wacos would reveal that all four tips are slightly different.



What, me worry?

If all four of the full-size tips are different, mine is more scale than I thought

I got my smoke system working today, on the ground at least. The Righteous Brothers should have been singing during the test. The thing was smoking like a Yugo with a broken oil ring and bad valve guides. Looks like I can get about 3-1/2 minutes of smoke with the tank I have, more than enough, I think.

< Message edited by khodges -- 6/6/2007 3:24 AM >

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