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RE: WACO YMF - 10/19/2007 2:31 PM   
snowball


 

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From: allanburg, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello to the Waco brotherhood.......as I am a novice builder I do not have much to contribute to this thread ,so I am just sitting back soaking it all in.You guys amaze me .SuperCubMan has been leading me along and with his help and this thread full of great ideas and photos I hope to have a great flying Waco...............Snowball brotherhood#59

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/19/2007 3:25 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Snowball,

Everyone has to start somewhere. We are happy that you are a Brother, and although I'm sure that no one intends to amaze anyone, we are all happy and eager to help. Post some pics of your build.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/19/2007 5:29 PM   
SuperCub Man



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

I wonder about the longevity of the brass wires for a hinge pin....Of course, one can always pull them and do an inspection.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1


I suspect they will last longer than either I or the model. Every plane has a date on it - as do I!!

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/19/2007 7:06 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Bill,

I think it depends on the subject plane you are modeling. Only a total of 36 original UMF/YMFs were made. The cowls were hand made with the expected differences, some were longer than others, some bump style, some smooth and some without a cowl. The bumps seemed to vary in length to width ratio and where the wide part of the bump was. Looking at the NWC site photo album for F3F5, I measured from bump to bump (outside) and front to back (as close as possible). Using the formula Diameter / Length = Ratio, I came up with some numbers for comparison. A plane with a ratio of 1.3 will have a longer cowl to diameter than one with a ratio of 1.53

1/5th Cowl from plans 1.53 (I don’t have an actual Pica Cowl to measure)

Pica subject NC 14031 1.3

Ken’s plane NC 14132 1.44 Bump
Ken’s plane NC 14132 1.48 Smooth Cowl and different color scheme.

YMF Classic NC 14081 1.39 The Pica plans cowl is a little short for scale when placed over a photo enlarged to the same diameter.

Look at NC 14041(NWC Photos), it had different bump cowls, different bump styles (picture 8 vs 12), wheel pants on or off and one photo shows a tail wheel pant.

Based on the photos and measurements, the Pica plastic/glass cowl may be a little short in length.

It may just be an optical illusion that the cowl bumps placement and style (long skinny with pointed rear or shorter with rounded rear section) has an effect on how we perceive the cowl length. At our scale the difference is minimal and as long as it looks correct in comparison to our subject plane, it should be close enough. At a top level scale competition, it might be a little more critical to be more exact. The judges are comparing the diagrams and picture you provide in your presentation package to what you have modeled.


< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 10/19/2007 9:33 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/19/2007 9:19 PM   
SuperCub Man



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Status: offline 		Well - finished one aileron at last!! Used the 404 sized Sig plastic corrugations and filled the little holes they put in it for cutting the sheet in half, with Motomaster Scratch Filler & Primer. A couple of heavy coats and 400/600 wet sanding in between them did the job to where you can't really notice them. I expect when they're painted they will be gone. This gives me 27 instead of 34 corrugations - but who's counting! The brass hinge works great and with the brass hinge pin in place, they move without friction but are not sloppy. After resizing the holes in the hinge and countersinking them a tad, I used #0X3/8" FH screws on the wing T.E. and with the 1/64" Ply facing on T.E and aileron L.E., they grip very well. I will harden the hole with thin CA. later. I had to use #0X1/4" screws on the aileron since they are angled up and the 3/8" comes through the top surface. These corrugations from Sig are a couple of inches short but there is enough material left over when you trim the pieces to fit, that you can salvage enough for this if you put the additional piece at the tip. I trimmed the extra piece right up against a corrugation and butted it against another corrugation and then CA'd them together so you don't see the join.
The rivets are added with the punch method I used with the aluminum aileron, but not as deep. Takes 10 minutes per sheet to punch them and it really helps the effect - scale size or not. The plastic sheets are glued to the aileron with 3M - 77 as I can't find the 3M - 90 in my area. I hope it holds!! So now just three more to go

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< Message edited by SuperCub Man -- 10/19/2007 9:20 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/19/2007 9:51 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Jim,

It is looking good, the rivet detail helps camoflage the fact that there are not as many ribs and the grey primer makes it look like the one in the photos I sent you.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/19/2007 10:37 PM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		Gentlemen
Regarding the cowlings, Also looking at the pictures on the National Waco Club I can see that some YMF as well as UMF had either evenly spaced blisters, or in pairs or no blisters at all such as the Cuban Navy air crafts which I am working on. Also looking at the aircraft right at top of the Cuban UMF, NC 14132 has a bigger cowling and not as flat as the Cuban UMF.

I have a brand new paired blister cowling I don't need, from Fiber glass specialties P/n DP 7. Any one interested, make me an offer at aminiet@hotmail.com.

SuperCubMan.

Great job on that aileron. Are you going to put the push/pull link under the aileron, or will you put it through the rear spar?
Also did you cut the aileron leading edge spar at an angle to allow for the down travel?

Angel
B 58

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 1:26 AM   
mrdhud



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Thanks for posting pics of your aileron they look great. I am building my ailerons now so the pics came at a perfect time.I will now order the piano hinges and start on the corrugation I will still try using the aluminum. I picked up five peaces today at the news paper place today I will work on them this weekend.Will post pic as soon as I have some thing to show.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 3:00 AM   
SuperCub Man



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quote:

ORIGINAL: aminiet

SuperCubMan.

Great job on that aileron. Are you going to put the push/pull link under the aileron, or will you put it through the rear spar?
Also did you cut the aileron leading edge spar at an angle to allow for the down travel?

Angel
B 58

I don't quite get what you mean by the push/pull link!! The servo will be mounted in the wing and connected to a standard Aileron horn with 4-40 wire and clevis. I put ply in the aileron - per plans - to support the horn and the interplane strut horn. My interplane main struts will be connected to steel horns which will be sandwiched between two ply plates on either side of the rib rather than the "L" shaped horn suggested on the plans.
I simply cut the aileron L.E. on the bandsaw at the correct angles to match the slope of the aileron. I think 22.5 degrees for the bottom and 35 degrees for the top. By gluing it to the bottom sheeting it was held in place while I cut the ribs to match. Since I used the plastic corrugations, I adjusted the aileron to allow for their thicknesses (about 1/16" each side) and then sheeted it with 1/16" balsa. They seem quite solid!
Hope that's what you meant!

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< Message edited by SuperCub Man -- 10/20/2007 3:03 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 3:18 AM   
SuperCub Man



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ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Jim,

It is looking good, the rivet detail helps camoflage the fact that there are not as many ribs and the grey primer makes it look like the one in the photos I sent you.


Ha! Isn't that a coincidence! Just happens that the primer I had on hand was grey. That photo you sent was obviously just the ticket. I was able to enlarge and print it and mark each rivet in the print-out with a marker. It has been my bible. However, I did goof up in that the inboard end of the bottom has rivets up the rib edge. I forgot them!! Oh well!! Nobody's perfect

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 3:42 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		The scale link is a bellcrank that operates a ball type ling throuch an arc shaped slot close to the trailing edge of the wing. The other end of the link attaches to the aileron at the lower leading edge on the inboard end. There are some pictures way back in this thread (Lordy, it's gotten big) that show it exactly. Since there is not physical room in the outer wing for the servos to remain completely hidden, I plan to mount the servos in the wing center, and drive the bellcranks with a Goldenrod running straight to the bellcrank, and secured to each rib. That way, I can use a high power servo and not have any of the mechanics visible (other than what is scale). I like what you have done with your ailerons though.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 3:46 AM   
SuperCub Man



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Status: offline 		Yes I saw and made note of the scale installation Bill, but it looked to tough for me. Maybe on the second Waco!!

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 5:18 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Actually, It's pretty easy. In fact, I think it's easier than fooling with the direct servo setup.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 7:07 AM   
SuperCub Man



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Status: offline 		Do you have a drawing of how you did it that you could e-mail me? If it's that easy I would like to take a look at it. Will it give as solid and positive control as the normal method?

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 7:37 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		The control will be the same, providing you build it without lost motion. I will do a drawing tomorrow and send it to you, or post it here.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 3:16 PM   
yel914



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Status: online 		On sourcing out that 3M Spray 90 contact adhesive-try a distributor that sells products to the cabinet making industry. Any distibutor that sells hinges and drawer slides to cabinet shops usually sells a line of contact adhesive also. CONBOND and HYBOND brands make contact adhesive similar (and cheaper) to 3M. Spray 77 is not as strong as Spray 90, so you may want to take another look.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 4:13 PM   
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Status: offline 		Bill, I would also be interested in your aileron control set up. Thanks
Scott
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 6:18 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I have to sketch it out. I will try to have it posted today.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 7:59 PM   
raston


 

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Status: offline 		Hi there all...
I am really interested in building this plane. Iv'e got an engine I want to build around, and I'm looking for a winter project. Does anybody know of kits available, or are there any kit cutters that are doing this plane (ie: the PICA 1/5th scale)

Thanks!

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 9:50 PM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		SuperCub Man.

Thank you for the wing side view drawing, it answered my question regarding the angle cut on the aileron, and Stickbuilder answered the question about the link installation to move the aileron up/down. Thank you both.
Bill, I would also like to see the drawing. The picture is on pg. 79
post 1571

Angel
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 9:55 PM   
Stickbuilder



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ORIGINAL: raston

Hi there all...
I am really interested in building this plane. Iv'e got an engine I want to build around, and I'm looking for a winter project. Does anybody know of kits available, or are there any kit cutters that are doing this plane (ie: the PICA 1/5th scale)

Thanks!

There are a few still out there, and from time to time you can find one on the big selling site. Or you can contact the AMA, and order the plan set, and with it, you will get the parts templates, download the manual from the site mentioned here, and cut your own kit.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 10:18 PM   
skylarkmk1



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I agree with Bill, order the plans from the AMA, down load the manual(s), spend a little time with your jig saw and you will then have a custom cut kit produced by you.

The kit on eBay (item #130164323425) is currently at $385 (plus $25 shipping) and bidding closes tomorrow the 21st. To much for my wallet. Cut your own and save the money for covering and other items.

I am not aware of any kit cutters doing the Pica Waco YMF. The House of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ suppliments this thread and has a list of Waco plans, kits and other info. Check the list to see.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 10:22 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		It's kind of crude, but here it is.
the second one is going to be a little more helpful.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 10/20/2007 10:26 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 11:18 PM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		Thank you Bill, That should work.

Angel
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/20/2007 11:19 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Bill and the rest,

Here are some aileron linkage shots from the full size Wacos. The “kinked” connecting rod is common as seen in P2 as is the straight rod in P1; it depends on each plane what style to use. All three aircraft are UBF-2s in the pictures.

P1 Shot with the cover removed, brown tube at the top is the push rod to the cockpit (UBF-2 NC 12002)
P2 Cover on (UBF-2 NC 2091K)
P3/4 Streamline covers over linkage, front and rear views. (UBF-2 NC 155Y)


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