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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 4:07 PM   
jagnweiner



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ORIGINAL: Jim Henley

Scott,
Yes that was my home brew muffler, I built it out of 3/4 copper tube. I am trying to obtain some information on home built mufflers as I want to make sure this one is letting the engine breath properly. The engine is very quiet with this muffler and I want to make sure I am not creating too much back pressure.
As for adding an extension on to your stock muffler, my experience has not been good. If I may, I would suggest that you purchase the additional header pipe or extensions to place the stock muffler far enough down to exit the cowl where you want it to. I tried to put an extension on a O.S. 91 and never could keep the muffer from tearing it's self off the engine. The flex pipe and fittings I used on the WACO were from Mac's and they were not too expensive.


Jim-

Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding your problems with an OS .91, when you say "tearing itself off the engine" do you mean that it was coming off where the header pipe meets the cylinder? If so, I think that's an OS problem, not necessarily the extension. I have a friend with a .91 Surpass that keeps breaking the header pipe in flight. He's gone through at least four. I've heard of others with the same problem.


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 4:34 PM   
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The muffler would "wallow out" the threads where it attached to the header pipe. I tried loctite, red rtf, and JB Weld I even drilled through the muffler and head pipe and secured them with a 2-56 bolt. I wound up going through 2 or 3 mufflers. Once I purchaced the OS extension, the probelem went away. I think the additonal weight at the end of the muffler exacerbates the vibration. Perhaps as you indicate this is an "OS" problem, please let us know how your extension works out

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 4:50 PM   
Jim Henley


 

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Which Top Flite engine did you get your cylinders from? Your engine came out very nice, and that would be an easy way to build an engine for the next YMF. Have you heard any thing more from Sierra about the prototype gear? Again thinking about the one still in the box on the shelf.

< Message edited by Jim Henley -- 11/29/2007 6:27 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 5:12 PM   
Tony V.


 

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You might look at Central Hobbies for 120/150 4c mufflers they have two by NMP that might work well..

http://www.centralhobbies.com/Exhaust/mufflers.html

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 5:15 PM   
jagnweiner



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I'll let you know what I end up doing and how it works. I really only need about another 1/2 to 3/4 inch. As I recall, my friend was having problems at the cylinder end of the header pipe, but it was basically the same problem. I've heard others have had the same problem. As a result, I'm not a big fan of the OS four strokes. I've never had any problems with my Saitos or even with my one Magnum clone of the OS.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 5:26 PM   
nine o nine


 

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Status: offline 		Can someone tell me what the cross section of the aileron link strut on the YMF Classic is (round or streamlined)? I also need ot find out the cross section dimension of the full scale so I can scale it appropriately. Thanks, Mitch WB 100

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 7:27 PM   
Tony V.


 

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Mitch
Look at page 185, post 4612.. but not sizes...?

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/29/2007 8:49 PM   
nine o nine


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Tony, It looks round but I'm not sure. Still need it's dia. though. Thanks, Mitch WB 100

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 1:20 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Dan, Use the hinges that you like. I use a mixture of pinned hinges (the flat ones) and I use piano hinge for the ailerons. I have used the Robart hinge points, but they don't look right.

Jim, the cylinders were from the 1/5th Top Flite 9 cylinder Pratt and Whitney radial (vacuum formed) engine. I also cut the long projection off the front of their cam cover. I did not use any other of their parts. The pushrod tubes and the distributor ring are from K&S aluminum tubing. The spark plugs are brass tube, and the wires are wire (solid core). The crankcase is a hair spray can, and the flats are from 1-1/8" wide balsa, filled with spackle to fill the voids.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 3:25 AM   
Stickbuilder



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ORIGINAL: kruzin55

Bill,

Thanks for accepting me into the brotherhood and I appreciate the advice on the wheel pants, but I am not sure I understand what you mean by "sectioned a little over 1/4" from the center of the pants". Did you cut some off to make them narrower? Also, do you hav an engine recommendation for my other two 1/6 scale Wacos. I have an old kit-build that I purchase at our club dinner with an old super tigre .61 and have a new Cox Hobbies ARF in the mail. From what I gather on the forum, most think that the .61 is too small. Would a Saito .91 fit in the cowl.

Also, I read one of your post about a recommendation for dummy engines where you recommended the Williams Brothers 1/5 scale, but I have a heck of a time finding it on their web page. Thanks again.

Chris V.


Chris,

Here are pictures of the Waco wheel pant with a 1/4" section removed from the center. Notice how much tighter it hugs the tire. This is more scale looking than the fat boy wheel pants that the aftermarket offers.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 4:11 AM   
Stickbuilder



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I think that the slave rods are all round. At least I have not seen one that had streamlined slave rods, of course, John can (and will) always prove me wrong . I will hold to the statement that I have never seen one that was not round.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 4:32 AM   
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Checking my other photos of the Aileron corrugations with measurements, the bracket base is about one inch wide compared to the flat section between corrugations (1-11/16” wide)(P1 & P2). The brackets seem to have varied in width a little from plane to plane.

On the YMF Classic, the round connecting tube appears to be wider than the bracket; my guesstimation is the tube is 1/1/4” (+/-) in diameter and appears quite slender compared to the “N” Struts (P4). I would say that 7/32” tube would be closest in 1/5th scale, but that anything from 3/16” to ¼” should work.

If you look at the Pica Wing plan Sheet, the streamlined connecting rod is made from 7/16” wide x 5/16” thick stock (full size = 2-3/16” x 1-9/16”). Pg 43, step 10 of the Long Manual says the same.

P1 Measuring the flat sections
P2 Bracket outline (one example) compared to the flats and ribs
P3 Top bracket on YMF Classic NC 14081
P4 YMF Classic NC 14081 taxiing in. Note the thickness of the aileron connecting tube compared to the “N” Struts. Also notice the dihedral in the Wings.


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 4:49 AM   
skylarkmk1



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I would have to agree that on all the YMFs I have seen (a total of 1, 1987 YMF Classic NC 14081), the connecting rods were round. Other Wacos like the UBF-2, UPF-7, QCF and most other Wacos I have seen (about 40) have streamlined rods. A few Wacos such as the AVN-8 and SRE have concealed linkage to the ailerons in the top wing, the bottom wing does not have ailerons.

P1 Lower end of the connecting rod on UBF-2 NC 2091K, notice this bracket is a little narrower than the outline of the one above. The rest of the connecting rod is similar to the one shown on the Pica Plans.

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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 11/30/2007 7:27 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 4:54 AM   
nine o nine


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the info on the connecting rod. I'm working in 30% scale so I'll make mine from 3/8 tubing. Mitch WB 100

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 5:48 AM   
Stickbuilder



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The one that I finished last year also has round tubing for the slave rods.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 6:33 AM   
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Status: offline 		Well, I think I may have found my solution for the exhaust extension. I picked up a Macs aluminum extension that just clamps on with a hose clamp. 8 bucks. There were 3 sizes; I went with the smallest 7/16" OD. Photos are attached. Of course I will trim the clamp and the extension to size. I know the muffler looks pretty ugly. I thought about cleaning it, but it will be behind a dummy engine hopefully.

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< Message edited by jagnweiner -- 11/30/2007 6:34 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 7:42 AM   
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Back a couple of pages, we were discussing Wacos with enclosed cockpits such as the YPF, ZPF and YMF NC 14687. I have found a photo of another YMF with an enclosed rear cockpit, YMF-5, NC 14082, picture 36 on the NWC site. This Waco seems to have a home brew canopy that is a bit unusual, but the photo does show a good view of the location of the navigation light on the left upper wing.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 11/30/2007 7:43 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 7:47 AM   
jagnweiner



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ORIGINAL: kruzin55

Also, do you hav an engine recommendation for my other two 1/6 scale Wacos. I have an old kit-build that I purchase at our club dinner with an old super tigre .61 and have a new Cox Hobbies ARF in the mail. From what I gather on the forum, most think that the .61 is too small. Would a Saito .91 fit in the cowl.



Chris V.


Chris-

Sorry for the late reply. If you want to see what the Saito .91 looks like in the 1/6 scale cowl, take a look at mine in post #4640 on page 186. A pretty good fit with just the rocker covers sticking out. As mentioned in other posts, I will use an old style Saito muffler with a short extension to exit out the bottom of the cowl.


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 1:55 PM   
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ORIGINAL: jagnweiner

Well, I think I may have found my solution for the exhaust extension. I picked up a Macs aluminum extension that just clamps on with a hose clamp. 8 bucks. There were 3 sizes; I went with the smallest 7/16" OD. Photos are attached. Of course I will trim the clamp and the extension to size. I know the muffler looks pretty ugly. I thought about cleaning it, but it will be behind a dummy engine hopefully.


A bit of advice (take it or leave it). When you add an exhaust extension, make sure that you baseline the engine before the extension is used. Use a tach, and set the engine for max RPM (without sagging) and then richen the needle so that you lose about 300 RPM at full throttle. Then add the extension, and recheck the engine RPM at the same needle setting. You may find that you lose more power than is acceptable. It is actually possible to gain power too, but I would not bet the farm on it. Make sure that you keep everything else as close as possible. If you can. do the baseline run, and then add the extension, and immediately run the engine for the test. This will keep the weather conditions as close as possible. Be sure not to change the prop either.

Not trying to rain on your parade by suggesting this, but for optium power, 4 stroke exhausts are designed for a certain length from the center line of the exhaust valve to the open end of the pipe. You may drastically change the engine output and not realize what has happened. It's kind of like joining an extra garden hose to the one that you are using. If you notice, you don't have as much water flow as before. All kinds of things come into play here, but harmonic change, pressure delta's and surface tensions are the big ones.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 4:01 PM   
trlambsr


 

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 4:15 PM   
skylarkmk1



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I would cautiously agree with you, since I don’t know the type and/or N-number of that particular of the plane you have shown. The 1987 YMF Classic, NC 14081 is the only Waco I have seen with the round aileron connecting rod, every other Waco that is in the Museum or that attended the Fly In, has had streamlined connecting rods except as noted (SRE, AVN-8).


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 5:16 PM   
khodges


 

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ORIGINAL: trlambsr

Sure looks like it"s not round to me
TR
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That is a interaileron link on a UPF-7. The giveaway is the squared off rear edge of the cockpit and the horizontal truss member at the bottom of the cabane strut. All the UPF-7's I saw at CCA had streamlined links

I looked through all my YMF pics; like Skylark, almost all I have are the newer Classic/Super, and they all have round links. The couple of pics I have of an original YMF (NC 14132) appears to have a streamlined link. It looks like the forward edge is round, while the trailing portion is tapered, and the heim joints, or whatever, are just slightly offset forward, as they would be if the only streamlining was on the trailing portion of the link.

My guess is that the Classic has the round one just because it's cheaper to make, and streamlining this piece doesn't justify the cost for whatever small aerodynamic benefit it gives. As most of these planes are too new to need restoration, they'd still have what was original to them. Most other airworthy Waco's have been restored to their original specs, which included the airfoiled interlinks.

Hey, John; what can you tell me (and the other Brothers) about the number of existing airworthy SRE's? I was looking at something on the 'net the other day that said something about the yellow/green SRE that we saw as being one of only three still flying. I don't know how up-to-date this statement was. When I think about it, I can think of only one other that I have seen in pictures, the white/red New York News plane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 5:23 PM   
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Do you have any photos of your landing gear legs after you made the last change? Or do you know what post they may be on in this thread? I am looking to add more width to the leading edge of the L/G fairing and to add a little more taper at the rear.
As they say, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"
Thanks!

< Message edited by Jim Henley -- 11/30/2007 5:24 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 5:50 PM   
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Of course I'll take your advice. In my case, I'll probably do three tests. The engine is an FA-91S that originally came with the new style (ugly) muffler. I swapped mufflers with an older Saito because the old style will be a better fit. I'll try it with new muffler, old muffler and old muffler with extension. Hopefully the extension won't make much difference, as it will not be very long and the inner diameter will be slightly larger than the ID of the outlet of the exhaust.


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RE: WACO YMF - 11/30/2007 9:54 PM   
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Status: offline 		Jim, I got lots of pics, it's just as easy to re-post them as look them up (and the extra post gets us closer to the 200 page mark )

The first picture is the gear by itself, and I have already cut out the center of the mounting plate to lighten it. The next one shows the gear in place, and the marks show where I will take material out of the legs to lighten it further. Next shows strips of balsa at the leading and trailing edges, to give final profile to the fairing and an attachment point for the balsa skins that will go over the legs. The strips are 5/32"balsa (the gear is 1/8" aluminum. I also cut a 5/32" thick triangular-shaped piece to fit in the cut out portion of the gear legs. Then I sheeted both sides of the gear with 3/32" balsa (I don't know if it mattered, but I ran the grain long ways on the inside of the legs and crossways on the outside). This makes the gear legs a total of 11/32 " thick. I mounted the gear, and cut 1/2" triangle balsa stock to make the transitions to the fuselage, and glued them in place. None of the balsa is actually glued to the aluminum, the triangular piece in the cut out portion of the legs keeps the sheeted portion in place, along with the strips down the leading and trailing edges. There is 1/64" clearance between the balsa and aluminum to allow for flexion, expansion/contraction, etc, so the balsa doesn't split, and the fiberglass also helps. Then I took the gear off and started sanding to shape. The leading edge got rounded off, and the trailing edge is tapered to almost an edge, like a wing. The triangle stock is sanded into a concave curve and the forward edge rounded, trailing edge tapered. You can see in the next photo what I did down at the axle end, just tapered it to the metal. You can also see how I did my wheel pants bracket. After I got it all sanded to final shape (It's not 11/32 thick any more, down to about 9/32), I fiberglassed it with a single layer of 1/2 oz cloth, overlapping at the leading and trailing edges to give it some strength so it doesn't dent as easily from handling, etc. The whole thing after glassing and final sanding weighed 4 oz more than the original stock gear, and is a hell of a lot stronger. The last picture just shows the bottom, with belly pan and struts in place.

Notice also, that when I made the trailing edge strip, I extended the trailing edge back under the leading edge of the bottom wing, and just cut it to fit the curvature of the leading edge where they meet. This is more like the prototype than what the kit shows (at least the ARF)

Jay has the template for this aluminum gear; I won't be so bold as to say he'll be happy to make one for you , but maybe everyone can strike their own deal.

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< Message edited by khodges -- 11/30/2007 10:10 PM >

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