RE: WACO YMF  
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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 1:30:54 AM   
bwaco


 

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From: , CA, USA
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Hey, All:

Don't get me wrong about the ride from FL to CA - I fully appreciate how privileged I am to be the guy making it. I was just commenting on an East-West flight in a 120 mph bipe against the winds. I expect to average about 80 all told. It would indeed probably be faster to haul it over on a Conestoga wagon, but I didn't take the pay cut without understanding how great it is to be able to fly a WACO around. It's also the practical matter of a WACO requiring at least five hours of work on the ground for every flight hour. Not all at once, but after things go smoothly for a few hours you find yourself with a couple of days of solid maintenance chores. They were built during the Depression when labor wasn't an issue. As a ride operator, all the labor's mine, and so I know what 30-plus hours crossing from the swamps to the deserts is going to mean. It'll be great, but it'll take TIME. It'll be good time, in hangars I've never been to, with airplane people I haven't met yet, but it will take time.

In fact, I bought the airplane pieces in New Hampshire and got it into what I thought was flying condition over a few months before ferrying it to the factory in Michigan. No radios or transponder, so I had to avoid everyone's airspace. The weather and the engine gods cooperated and I rolled it into the hangar in Battle Creek just as the sun went down. I'm still picking the leaves out of the gear. It was beginner's luck, though, and now, looking back on it, I don't really see how often it might be possible to do 800 miles in a day in a WACO.

As for the flight out there, thanks for the Houston Hobby suggestion, and hopefully I'll be able to take you up on it. The major caveat being that cross-country in an open-cockpit biplane tends to do away with most flight planning - you end up more or less where the winds blows you, and on the kind of range a WACO has, those decisions seem to be - well, ket''s jsut say one has to be flexible.

-Brian

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 3:06:33 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Brian,

If you leave in just under two weeks and come a little north thru the St Louis area, you can make the American Waco Club Fly In the 19th - 22nd of June at Creve Coeur Airport (1HO) (or Dauster Field, as it is also known). Lots of Waco planes, pilots, familes and other Waco people will be there. Good food for the membership banquets and such.

Everyone else-Just 2 weeks to go for the AWC Fly In, would like to have any and all Brotherhood members (and models) that can attend be there.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 6/6/2008 1:30:11 PM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 5:01:05 AM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwaco

I was just commenting on an East-West flight in a 120 mph bipe against the winds.

- you end up more or less where the winds blows you, and on the kind of range a WACO has, those decisions seem to be - well, ket''s jsut say one has to be flexible.


Brian, I guess if the wind was bad enough you could head west from Fla. and wind up in Bermuda sort of a 21st Century Wrong Way Corrigan.

I was being flip in my comments before. I fully understand about time vs $$$ and the need to get the plane there with a minimum of fuss and wear and tear. It's funny how you talk of flying hours vs. maintenance hours on an almost 70 year old airplane. The military talks about how they retired the F-14 and other high-tech aircraft because it took 18 hours of maintenance for every hour of flight. Things sure haven't changed much, have they?

I'm the sort that if I had one of these planes, I'd be a "hobo" of sorts, just travel as far as I could before the $$$ ran out, stay there and work until I could move on, just feeding myself snd my airplane. "Route 66" in a WACO instead of a Corvette.

You've got a great-looking plane, do a barrel roll for me sometime.



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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 2:23:38 PM   
bwaco


 

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I'd really enjoy making the AWC fly-in... but it's looking about 80-20 against. I'm a member, have been since before I got a WACO, and all those folks have been incredibly kind and helpful, so it was high on the list.

As for being a hobo - well, that was sort of my plan, too, except I was going to stick with the traditional appellation of barnstorming. Here's what I found out.

We were all promised smaller, less intrusive government about 8 years ago. Let me tell you what that did to barnstormers. On the federal level, they wrote up a bunch of new laws, and a whole new chapter of Federal Aviation Regulations. The Notice of Proposed Rule Making admitted that the new rules would put 700 - yes, that is 700, in other words, almost all of them - operators out of business immediately, but they said that it was worth it in light of 9/11. Biplane operators being such highly perfidious national security threats and all. The new rules mandated getting federal approval for sightseeing rides, thereafter re-monikered Commercial Air Tours. We biplane riders always were dangerous to the national security, I guess, because the Feds really came down. To make their point they enacted the barnstorming law on September 11th, 2007.

So I went out and applied for my Letter of Authorization, got myself enrolled in the requisite drug screening program, peed in a cup, and waited for the LOA. What did the FAA do? They hung up the application for three months over my having put myself down as the person responsible for maintenance. It was the only legal answer I could give. The law says that the owner/operator "is the person primarily responsible for maintenance." Feds said, no, no, no... you're not a certified mechanic. The next regulation on the same page said that the person responsible for the maintenance shall ensure that said maintenance be performed by appropriately certified personnel. Okay, got that. But the feds kicked the application up to the OK City and from there to DC. This guy wants to be responsible for his own maintanance! Holy crap! Millions may die!

Finally the HQ guys got back to the local guys and said, essentially, what's the matter with you morons - he's right, , his responsibility is to hire the right guys - sign him off. Thus disappeared three months of being able to fly for a living.

So, then barnstorming - being a WACO hobo... With my fresh LOA in with all the rest of my flight dox, off I went and started trying to sell rides locally. Put it this way - no go. Unless you're at an airport so rural that there's no one around, no one will let you do it. Municipalities and other controlling authorities now generally require that you first get permission from their city attorneys (or equivalents), in writing, and then you can offer rides. Usually this requires appearing before the city council, blah, blah, blah. Someone runs right out on the ramp and tells you so. Unless, like I said, you're someplace so far away that you'd have to wait a year to sell a ride.

Furthermore, the feds required that any maintenance (the way my FAA operations Inspector put it was not let anyone so much as stick a decal on the airplane unless I had them pee in a cup first, and that they would be checking) be performed by appropriate personnel. Try putting that to some good ol' boys who've been around long enough to know how to work on round engines and sticks and tubes and see how far you get. They almost to a man voted the guys in who wrote the new rules, but they scoff at having any part of them themselves. Too intrusive. Too much gubment.

The funniest thing was when I talked to the FAA about how onerous these requirements were for barnstorming and the FAA official said, "What's barnstorming?" I told him, and he said, "Well, you can't do that any more."

So, with the price of gas and oil - today about $115/hour for a WACO - the feds having their nose in everything and local governments getting in on the act, the advertised pro-business, small-government, let-a-man-make-a-living era we're supposed to be in hasn't quite worked out that way.

And I've tried. I haven't been home in a year, just on the road with the WACO.

The end of the American tradition of barnstorming was thusly ensured. Now we're Commercial Air Tour Operators, and my sense is that before long all that'll be gone, too. Or bought up by the Chinese or Saudis, and they'll of course get their way.

The whole thing is a damn shame.

Sorry for the rant. I know it's out of place here. I'll shut up now.


(in reply to khodges)
       Post #: 6354

RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 2:37:13 PM   
WacoJoe


 

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From: Oshkosh, WI, USA
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Aw, come on Brian. Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!! Seriously though, it sounds like your FSDO guys are a bunch of clowns. (This is unfortunately not all that uncommon.) But there are some FSDOs who still apply regulation with some common sense mixed in. That would probably be a breath of fresh air for you I'd guess!

Enjoy your cross-country!

Joe
WB #54

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 2:49:32 PM   
bart5495


 

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From: Edmonds, WA, USA
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Brian.
a fellow operates out of the boeing field in Seattle selling rides in Waco's and a stearman. Don't know if it might help if you could get ahold of him. Maybe he could give you some hints of what you could do to help your situation. I took a ride with my wife last year in his upf7. I would be willing to trac him down for you if you would like.

Doug

< Message edited by bart5495 -- 6/7/2008 4:37:44 AM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 2:57:14 PM   
khodges


 

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From: newton, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwaco

...................The end of the American tradition of barnstorming was thusly ensured. Now we're Commercial Air Tour Operators, and my sense is that before long all that'll be gone, too. Or bought up by the Chinese or Saudis, and they'll of course get their way.

The whole thing is a damn shame.

Sorry for the rant. I know it's out of place here. I'll shut up now.




I feel your pain, even if it isn't denting my wallet as much as yours. This is one reason I want to make it to these fly-ins, to get to see these planes, catch a ride if I can, before they're all regulated into museum pieces.

Your post is hardly out of place here. I think most, if not all, of the Brotherhood will agree with the spirit of the post, even if we may not feel its effects as much as you and other full scale owners. With present civilization (?) becoming what it is, I think a move backwards to a more basic and uncluttered time would make most people feel better, even if it meant accepting some of the less desireable aspects of that time. Certainly I long for a time when landing in somebody's cow pasture was a matter of interest and curiosity and not one of tresspass and invasion of rights. But I am fringing on politicizing here. You know what I mean.


I don't know if you've "been officially inducted" into the WACO Brotherhood yet, but you're certainly a kindred spirit.


< Message edited by khodges -- 6/6/2008 3:00:32 PM >


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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 3:07:32 PM   
bwaco


 

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From: , CA, USA
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Thanks, but I did get the FAA situation under control and they did go ahead and issue my Letter of Authorization, so now there's no problem flying as far as they're concerned. These days I just deal with local issues all over the place. I was just saying that the ideal way to get x-country would be to sell rides along the way to pay for the gas, but that's a dying endeavor. You could get away with it on a hit-and-run basis, but with rides being so expensive now - fuel, parts, maintenance, insurance - without advertising in advance it's almost impossible to sell rides. I haven't yet been anywhere where I sold an impromptu ride, and that's been NH, CT, MA, VT, NY, OH, PA, MI, IL, IN, IA, KY, TN, GA, FL. The times they are a-changin'.

-B

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/6/2008 8:47:13 PM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwaco

Thanks, but I did get the FAA situation under control...........



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Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/7/2008 4:00:25 AM   
Stickbuilder



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From: leesburg, FL, USA
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Brian,

If you come through Leesburg (and you probably will stop here for gas), let me know, I'll come pick you up and take you to lunch. Let me know if it's on your way, and I'll send you my phone #.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
NWC # 110

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It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

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