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RE: WACO YMF - 10/14/2012 3:22 PM   
LesUyeda



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Status: offline 		I have a copy of Profile Publications #158, The Ryan PT/ST series, and nothing in that publication shows any lights. I find no copywrite date, but it is quite old.

Les

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/14/2012 5:03 PM   
Dash7ATP



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Status: offline 		I'm not sure if this is even the same plane, but I think it's close.......... No lights I can see.,

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/14/2012 6:36 PM   
Errol Levin



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Status: offline 		Hi Guys

Just to get back to the subject of Waco's, I've been busy today doing the tapes on my tail feathers. Have a look.

Regards

Errol #204

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/15/2012 1:27 AM   
Dash7ATP



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rccrasher65

Joe what is the thickness of the brass sheet, you used for your fittings, thanks George



George,

I'm sorry I took so long to answer this one. I just noticed it when it popped up when the page opened. I don't know how iI missed it when it first came up.

The fittings in the aircraft structure,  both the wings and fuselage, are from the K & S Brass and I think they were about .032".  It may be overkill, but I was just being sure.  The fittings on the ends of my N-Struts were made by wrapping a thinner piece of brass around a 1/8" hard brass tubing. I think thery were done with .016" brass and that assembly was soldered to the heavier piece that went into the end of the N-Strut.  If that is confusing, let me know.

Joe



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RE: WACO YMF - 10/15/2012 5:02 AM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Joe, just wanted the thickness of the brass sheet stock. I have your pictures from the earlier posts, pretty straight foreward, if I have any questiions I will be sure to ask, Thanks again for all your help. I haven't been on very much lately, but getting back to full build soon. I have two on the boards, My 1/5 WACO YMF, and a Brian Taylor Messerschmitt 109 F, keeping me pretty busy, bouncing back and forth. George

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/15/2012 3:22 PM   
LesUyeda



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Status: offline 		"I'm not sure if this is even the same plane, but I think it's close.......... "

It is close, it is a PT-22.

Les

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/18/2012 10:38 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		So no lights it is. Now on to the Waco once more.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/18/2012 5:57 PM   
mrdhud



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Status: offline 		Bill,
Glade to see you back on the Waco. See you at monster planes only 8 more day

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/18/2012 8:15 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Dan, the dates are for Thursday, Friday and Saturday, if I'm not mistaken.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/21/2012 10:17 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Looks like we are dying of old age or something. Nothing new for a long time.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/21/2012 8:25 PM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Brothers, Lets start talkin and building Waco's, tired of fleetbrotherhood posts.George

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/21/2012 10:43 PM   
mrdhud



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Status: offline 		Hello all,
Not much to report on for me. My Waco is awaiting its new aluminum landing gear from Jim I’m looking forward installing it and getting the Waco back in the air. I also have a second Waco framed up I will also install the aluminum gear in it. I hope to have it come in much lighter then my first (19 lbs). I will post some pictures as soon as I get the gear installed.

Hope to see you at Monster Planes next weekend.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 3:23 AM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Dan do you have any pics of the new waco? 1/4 scale I believe. I'm getting back to building mine I have two on the boards at present. I'm building a Brian Taylor Messerschmitt bf 109 E version, along with the waco. Enjoy Monster Planes.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 3:55 AM   
Dash7ATP



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Status: offline 		Ok guys, Time for me to make a few posts.  I have finally finished covering all of my 1/5 WACO.  I'll have a few photos soon online to show what I think may be a new technique for covering the wings. More on this later. 

I used Koverall on my model and now have two coats of Nitrate dope on all surfaces. I have bought some of Mick Reeves 1/5 scale pinked tape for the ribs and seams. I want to do rib stitching as well.  I know there are several ways to approach this. One is to buy the rib stitching tape from a vender. Another is to use the white glue drop method, and I am considering this. I'm considering trying to make my own rib stitch strips. I'm thinking aobut  laying out a piece of koverall large enough to have full length strips for the longest ribs (inboard ribs) on a piece of plastic release film such as monocoat backing.  Then on either side of that place small nails or brads at the scale two inch spacing and lace a piece of heavy thread back and forth over the koverall. This would then be doped to adhear the thread to the fabric. When dry, cut into strips the width of the ribs. These could be doped onto the wing and then covered with the iron on pinked tape.  Has anyone tried this and if so, how did it go? Any suggestions of type of glue if dope is not used?

Another question:  I have been messing around with how to go about adding the cockpit coaming.  I have a small strip of thin fake leather which I bought for this purpose. I tried a few things this afternoon, but it's going to be more difficult that I thought. How are you guys doing this job?  I have some rubber that was sold for this purpose by Foremost Products. It's 1/4" diameter and has a quarter of it cut away. It glues to the edge of a piece of balsa very well, but it just doesn't look right. Your tips and techniques will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 4:48 AM   
Dash7ATP



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I have been building models since around 1958 and have covered them in everything from Jap Tissue, silkspan silk,  money coat, and 21st Century Fabric, which was prepainted. The 21st Century job looked great, but it was heavy!  . This was my first job with this raw fabric. When I used silk back in the day, we first wet it out and layed it over the structure. This way , the wrinkles could be pulled out and then it was doped through the damp silk. It worked very well and always resulted in a smooth, tight skin.  I have not seen this technique ever mentioned for this heavier fabric. Has anyone tried it? 

What I have done here is to try to duplicate this technique only with the dry fabric. I have heard it stressed to try to keep the threads of the fabric as striaght as possible. I could see early on that this would not be that simple on a piece six feet long that was going to wrap around the wing, as I wanted to do each wing with a single piece of fabric.  So, how to do it? The trick was to be able to lay it on the wing, and hold it in place AND be able to pull the wrinckles out, AND keep the grain straight.  When it finally hit me, it was simple.

I blocked the wing so that I could work on one side at a time. I used a bean bag (actually bird shot) to weigh down one wing which allowed the other to hang ove the edge of my table. I layed the covering over the wing and aligned the trailing edge with the edge of the cloth. and attached the small clamps shown in the photos.  With opposing clamps, the fabric is pulled out and can be almost wrinckle free before you start to dope. I used heavier clamps on the tip to help get more tension along the grain. I did the entire bottom surface, and then turned it over and finished the top. It worked great!

The other photos showed how I did the top center section behind the tank location, as the ribs are not covered on the full size WACO behind the tank. The top wing had the tio done using a bow made from five strips of 1/16 X 1/4" bass wood molded around a form. The 1/4" was too thin so I covered the top and bottom with 3/32 " balsa which allowed me to do some shaping without getting into the hard wood too much. They came out very stiff and I think look pretty scale.

All comments welcome.

Joe



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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 11:06 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Joe, looks like you used Dan's wing tip ribs and laminated tip bow too. Looks very nice, and a ton more scale than what came in the box. Glad to see your progress.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 1:22 PM   
Dash7ATP



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Status: offline 		Bill,

I didn't use Dan's ribs, but drew them up myself.  The key to the tip, I think, is in the propper treatment of the traiing edge at the aileron and the leading edge.  The trailing edge as you know is almost straight on the top and on the bottom, starts up about 3 1/2 ribs from the tip.to about 1/4 " at the tip. The leading edge turns up slightly from the bottom at about two ribs from the tip.  I just made the bottom flat from those two points and made the ribs fit. The top of the tip rib is about 3/32" below a straight line across the top of the W-6 ribs.  It may not be perfect, but it worked for me.  I wish I had done this with the lower wing also!

Any comments on what you did for rib stitching?

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 2:41 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Rib stitching? Yep. I doped on about a million little bitty pieces of thread spaced at 5/16 inch and then cut about a million pieces of hair paper to make the reinforcing tape. Cover that with pinked tape and you have it. Takes forever plus one week to do. If I were going to do this again, I'd make a jig with small tacks or brads and wind the thread back and forth around them and then would slide the tissue under the thread and dope the thread to the paper. Then I'd cut the paper and thread to the correct width and dope the whole thing to the panels. Doing it that way would save untold hours of labor, plus you would have the stitching at the exact angles that you want. You don't go blind that way either.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 2:45 PM   
mrdhud



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Status: offline 		Joe,
Your wings look great I especially like the way you did your center section on the wing. I haven’t sheeted the center section on my ¼ scale yet so with your permission I will copy your way. Looking forward seeing more.

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 3:08 PM   
jn4dflyer


 

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Status: offline 		I did mine like Bill described by looping the string down the jig and putting the paper under (I used silkspan), then dope it all down worked great but was hard to cut with any accuracy.  I tried all the tools razor blade, x-acto knife, even a bed style paper cutter.  The paper would move, or tear the strings loose.  I then tried an Olfa roller cutter, against a stainless steel ruler with a cork back, with great results.
The cutter is a handle style made for cutting fabric, it has a round cutting wheel on the end that rolls as you pull it back to you along the rule.you can find them at most discount stores or sewing stores.  The tapes look great when doped down and much easier to do than glue trails, more consistant too.

Larry
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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 3:42 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I hate glue trails or dots. They are never the same size, nor are they the right scale. Yes, I do know that its all about the illusion that there is something under the tape, and all that, and that you won't see it from 15 feet away, but its all about what looks right. Glue dots just don't get the job done. They do work well for rivets, but then again, most full scale airplanes have used flush rivets since the 30's. I have replicated the screws on the Waco's with a glue dot with a slice cut out of it so it looks like a common screw. Just remember, everything that we add does nothing but aid the appearance and adds to the total weight of the model. We have had some awfully porky ones here too. I saw one third scale that weighed more than 80 pounds. That is a ton of weight for this model. Looks great though.............


Bill, Waco Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 4:17 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Go to the Cub Den http://www.thecubden.org/cubmenu/cubmain.html , he has an article on making rib stitches and getting the threads parallel as well as other tips on scaling out your plane. For the rib stitching look under the Covering Related tab

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 6:43 PM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Joe, wings look great, I can't wait till I get there, still framing up both planes, back and forth I go, some day I will get them done. 

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 9:01 PM   
Dash7ATP



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Rib stitching? Yep. I doped on about a million little bitty pieces of thread spaced at 5/16 inch and then cut about a million pieces of hair paper to make the reinforcing tape. Cover that with pinked tape and you have it. Takes forever plus one week to do. If I were going to do this again, I'd make a jig with small tacks or brads and wind the thread back and forth around them and then would slide the tissue under the thread and dope the thread to the paper. Then I'd cut the paper and thread to the correct width and dope the whole thing to the panels. Doing it that way would save untold hours of labor, plus you would have the stitching at the exact angles that you want. You don't go blind that way either.

Bill, Waco Brother #1



Hey Bill,

That is exactly the techniqque I mentioned a few posts back. I was wondering if anyone had tried it.  I think I will. I'll let you know how it comes out. Any suggestioins on what to use as the base medium for the stitches?  I was going to use a piece of Koverall, but some tissue or silkspan may be even better.

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 10/22/2012 10:14 PM   
WacoNut



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Status: offline 		We had a full scale UPF=7 and a YKS fly in at our R/C field yesterday, we use 700' on the end of a private airstrip. Anyhow I was looking very close at the fabric and stitching on the planes. The pinked tape was only visible with the light hitting it just right at 5' distance. You could barely feel the edge of the tape it was blended so well. The stitching was very pronounced but hard to replicate properly. The stich more or less has a indintation at each side of the rib where it is pulling the rib tape down with the fabric. The underlying rib tape and the stitch was very obvious. I wish I had my camera with me to get some good detail shots.
The YKS did a high speed pass about 5 ft over the runway and pulled vertical right in front of our flight-line, very impressive.
Later!!
Anthony

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