What really caused the dues increase?  
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What really caused the dues increase? - 1/14/2003 9:29:44 PM   
BillHarris



Posts: 835
Joined: 12/20/2002
From: Jasper, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Nope, we're not wasting our time. McN nearly got dusted in the last election, and the 80 votes he bought weren't exactly a mandate. Although D-V "voted him in", the telling votes were the nays.

If Jim thinks you're bad, he can consider me his worst nightmare...

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 226

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/14/2003 9:32:14 PM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 4983
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by BillHarris
Nope, we're not wasting our time. McN nearly got dusted in the last election, and the 80 votes he bought weren't exactly a mandate. Although D-V "voted him in", the telling votes were the nays.

If Jim thinks you're bad, he can consider me his worst nightmare... [/QUOTE]

Speaking of votes, I wonder how things would have turned out if those 10,000 that were sent to Muncie in error (failure to read the instructions) were counted?

Red S.\AMA 951
LM/CD
D-V

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 227

Bill & Red or is it Red & Bill ? - 1/14/2003 10:11:40 PM   
vpresley



Posts: 145
Joined: 2/26/2002
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Well, first and foremost I wouldn't pretend to apologise for anything or anyone to you, or anyone else for that matter. If you have read all my posts, and I mean read carefully, you would see the trend of my intent and meaning. Im not going to do anything as far as D5 is concerned, not my District. When Red said he couldn't contact Jim M, and asked if I could do something, in one of his previous posts, (Yes he did !), I thought I would do a reality check. The check was not in Red's favor, got him first try on the phone. JM is part of the AMA, like or not, agree with it or not. If you had as much support as you claim to have, and put as much effort toward your goal as you do here, well maybe you would get what you want, then again maybe not. From what I have seen so far, you both are a long way from talking for the whole of D5. So again with out the personal attacks, work within the system to fix it. Thats one of my main theme's. All this negative stuff reflects back on you and your credibility and integrity. I would never attack anyone, like you have here, not my style. If all else fails, go fly, then try again. Pretty soon you may find out its just you, or things will change. I will always work for the voice of reason and to help the my AMA. I believe in the AMA and its stated goals, its magazine and its elected officials. We did elect them and they, through the bylaws work to keep us members informed about ALL modeling. Will they ever make you happy on an individual basis, im not sure at this point, but then again they are not worried about just you. There is a bigger picture here. So, on with the bigger picture.

Vince P. AMA 7051
LM/CD D-VI

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 228

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/15/2003 12:37:48 AM   
BillHarris



Posts: 835
Joined: 12/20/2002
From: Jasper, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Vince--

Look up "apologist", it doesn't mean simply "apologize".

I am not attacking anyone, simply presenting facts. My opinion is that Jim McNeill is the devil incarnate and is not good for D-5.

Since you have not (and, IMO, can not) presented any new evidence that JMcN has done anything in a positive light, I presume that nothing exists.

And I'm not even from Missouri...

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 229

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/15/2003 1:03:23 AM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 4983
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		Yes, you can contact McNeill by phone - if you want "dial a sermon". Your nickel - his sermon. One the rare occasion when he contacted me it was to chastise me for working "within the system" and interfacing with people (some VPs and AVPs) outside of our district on AMA matters that he seemed not to want to discuss or was clueless on the matter.

But then when you really wanted to get something to him important, and sent it registered - return receipt requested they were refused as a matter of course. Why? His answer to me was that he never accepted these because then he couldn't claim he never got them. Send him an e-mail and if you are on his list of subversives they are manually bounced (you can tell it is manual because of the timing and header). What kind of paranoia is this?

Vince, I don't know why you are defending McNeill's actions. It is not like we have not tried every decent way to get him to do his job. Even Dave Brown has talked to him on a number of occasions but he just insists on doing it his way, and as long as people let him get away with it he thinks it is a mandate.

We have a file that would fill a CD with letters, pleas, and frustrations about how he runs District V, but to no avail. He is not going to change, and he is not going to give up his seat on the EC without a fight to the end. Is this in the best interest of the AMA? And don't hang it on the members in D-V elected him . . . He has purposely low keyed any member involvement knowing a few of his loyal supporters, most of whom are clueless as to what his job really is, will be steadfast and hopefully keep him in office. By low keying involvement, did you ever see any mention of the last AMA general meeting held in his district at the Perry Swap meet last year. NO you didn't, and consequently there were more AMA officials at the meeting than there were AMA members, of course having it at 4:30 pm after a long day when many had a long drive ahead of them was pretty poor planning also.

Is he really interested in what his constituency thinks? Not if the time he spends at any particular even he attends is an indication. It is usually less than 45 minutes and he is off to God knows where avoiding any significant contact with the people there, just snap and run.

How can ANYONE defend such actions and how do you get the uninterested to wake up to what is going on and take a stand the next time he is up for reelection?

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Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 230

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/15/2003 2:14:46 AM   
vpresley



Posts: 145
Joined: 2/26/2002
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by BillHarris
Vince--

Look up "apologist", it doesn't mean simply "apologize".

I am not attacking anyone, simply presenting facts. My opinion is that Jim McNeill is the devil incarnate and is not good for D-5.

Since you have not (and, IMO, can not) presented any new evidence that JMcN has done anything in a positive light, I presume that nothing exists.

And I'm not even from Missouri... [/QUOTE]

:

Well Bill the assertion that your not attacking anyone, in one sentence, and "the Devil incarnate", in the next doesn't quite hold water as they say. The term "Suspension of Disbelief" comes to mind. Red, no where in my post have I said you were not without cause to feel the way you do. I used words like; Positive way, work within the system, protocol, decorum, credibility, integrity. Whats that saying ? "Its not what you say, its how you say it". Maybe in your Club you could get away with saying those things, but not most others, some would even ask you to leave. If your going to present your facts, present them in away that reflects credit to yourself. I can't see anything in my previous posts that says your wrong about the situation or the facts. Bill, did you compete in the 89 Scale Masters ? If that was you, I liked your F-15, at least I think it was an F-15. I was there with another Jet Flyer. And on we roll.

Vince Presley AMA 7051
LM/CD

< Message edited by vpresley -- Jan 14 2003 9:34PM >

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 231

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/15/2003 3:37:28 AM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 4983
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		Vince,

Just how many years do you take the positive way, work within the system, protocol, decorum, credibility, integrity. . . . before you wear the velvet glove thin and your knuckles begin to show through? What does it take to convince one that with some situations you just are not going to make it taking the high road? I guess if it really doesn't matter all that much you can revel in the luxury knowing that you used all the "nice ways" while getting crapped on in the process. The Nevil Chamberlin approach - peace in our time.

RS

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 232

The AMA is yours, mine and ours - 1/16/2003 2:43:08 AM   
vpresley



Posts: 145
Joined: 2/26/2002
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Red

How much time ? The length of time until the next election. The High road in all situations is the best road. People, institutions, clubs, all react positively to the High Road. They are more receptive, will to listen and consider the issues, even more likely to heed and join in on the issues. More flys with honey dont you know. As for the crap, stand your ground, duck, and dodge or use an umbrella. The get something done approach, make your points in positve, meaningful, articulate way.

VP

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 233

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/16/2003 3:53:50 AM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 4983
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		You be the judge. Is this the high road or not?

Here is the campaign material from the last election.

Tony Stillman states his qualifications:
From his web page:

http://members.tripod.com/ts_campaign/new_page_2.htm

As a life long modeler, I have participated in free flight, control line, combat,
RC sport flying, RC pattern, scale, giant scale, and the SAM championships. I
have been an active contest director each year since 1976. I have directed
local, national and world championship contests. In 1995 I was elected and
served 4 years as President of the National Society of RC Aerobatics. I was
the FIA team manager at-the world championships in 1993,1995,1997. I have
been the Frequency coordinator for District V, until April 2000, when the
District Director removed me from that position because I am going to run
against him at the next election. I have worked with almost everyone in the
competitions department, the rules committee and operations in Muncie. I
have an excellent relationship with AMA staff, officers, and officials.

My plan to improve AMA and District V. is as follows:

By truly representing modelers of our district, I will make your voice heard in
Muncie. Our district modelers need more input into the AMA council. I will
take on the work load shunned by our present VP. I will seek committee
membership, and assume my share of work and responsibility. Your voices
will be heard through me at council meetings. Every Associate Vice President
I appoint will come to you for your input, will visit your club and flying field,
and then discuss any club problems with your officers. Twice each year they
will report to me at a meeting of all the Associate VP's. Information gained
from them will help me to truly represent you in Muncie.

These changes can only be made with YOUR HELP. I am qualified, able and willing to represent you and our district in Muncie. I have the contacts and friends there to help me do the job.

With your support and YOUR VOTE, I can bring about these important changes to make sure that all of us in District V. are properly represented in Muncie.

Thanks.

TONY STILLMAN


Jim McNeill’s qualifications:
From District V web page: http://home.att.net/~ama_district_v/jimprofile.htm

Area of specialty/primary interest.



Recent Modeling activity-meets, show, events in which Jim McNeill has participated in.



Significant Contributions to modeling:

AMA District V Vice President. Mississippi. Alabama, Tennessee, South
Carolina, Florida, Puerto Rico.
AMA Life Member (L-2)
AMA Fellow
AMA Historian Emeritus
27 years on the AMA Council.
Former AMA Secretary Treasurer (10 yrs)
Co-founder of AMA's Life Member numbering system.
Co-founder with John Worth of AMA's National Newsletter
Sole Editor of the AMA Nat'l Newsletter for many years.

Current serving Officer of I.M.A.A. (International Miniature Aircraft Assn)
Assistant Director under Rod Gier
LIFE Member if I.M.A.A.
Life Member of N.F.F.S. (Nat'l Free Flight Society)
Honorary Life Member of S.A.M. (Society of Antique Modelers)
Life Member of the Birmingham RC Assoc'n.
Honorary Member of the BAMA Flyers. (Birmingham Aeromodeling Assn)

Education:
Graduated Georgia Tech, 1948 Bach Industrial Engineering
Graduated Woodrow Wilson School of Law, Atlanta, Bach at Law
Graduated Birmingham School of Law, Juris Doctor

Plans for District V (as found in places indicated)

Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:44:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Jim McNeill
To: [email]amadist5@yahoogroups.com[/email],

I am in the process of juggling the AVPs to get reponsive ones.

From the Dixie Aeromaster Inc. Newsletter
McNeill rebuttal letter 4/28/98

A committee of 3 has been developed here in Birmingham and are creating a Model Show beginning in Jan or Feb of next year in the old Fairgrounds buildings.

I am starting a District Newsletter to all editors, exchange, and contacts of the 318 clubs in my District.

I am scanning newsletters to show them on the WEB. Currently I have 10 megs and more if I need them. My secret plan is to show 1 page for each of the 318 clubs in my District that want me to.

Mc Neill Dist V Report Oct 97 MA
As A Dist. VP I am going on E-MAIL as soon as possible. As soon as I get that stuff going I will print out a bi-monthly District Newsletter.

McNeill Dist V Report Nov 97 MA
I have just started a District Newsletter on E-Mail. I am using Juno. My E-MAIL address is:Juno-JimMcNeill-AMA-L-2.

Mc Neill Dist V Report Mar 99 MA
Something new for Dist. V. We're starting a "Who's Who in AMA, Dist. V.” This will be a yearly thing from now on.

If others have any further knowledge of either candidates plans for the District please post them so that we may have an accurate a picture as possible of the two candidates. Testimonials for either candidate are also welcome.

**********

And you see where this got us. We lost to an 81 vote plurality won by McNeill. Close doesn't count in this game. First you have to get their attention. Then be nice. :-)

Red Scholefield AMA 951
LM/CD District V

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 234

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/17/2003 8:21:53 PM   
BillHarris



Posts: 835
Joined: 12/20/2002
From: Jasper, AL, USA
Status: offline 		"A committee of 3 has been developed here in Birmingham and are creating a Model Show beginning... in the old Fairgrounds buildings."

What ever came of that? Sounds good, but not if it was just rhetoric.

"I am scanning newsletters to show them on the WEB. My secret plan..."

I remember that. Scanned newsletters at 2 megs each, and caused a hub-bub since McNinny also diseminated club financial info on the Web. What was the secret plan?

"I have just started a District Newsletter on E-
Mail. I am using Juno. My E-MAIL address is:Juno-JimMcNeill-AMA-L-2"

I remember that. We got one newsletter. That is not even a valid Juno email addy.

"Something new for Dist. V. We're starting a "Who's Who in AMA, Dist. V.? This will be a yearly thing..."

That has been going on for some time, but I have never , ever seen a "who's who". Anyone? Vaporware?

"AMA Life Member (L-2)..."
"Co-founder of AMA's Life Member numbering system. "

That explains L-2.

"Current serving Officer of I.M.A.A.
Assistant Director under Rod Gier"
"LIFE Member of I.M.A.A."

That is astounding since he does not fly R/C and thinks that big planes fly peachy. How did he get to be LM, much less an AD?

"Sole Editor of the AMA Nat'l Newsletter for many years. "

That is more astounding given that our Dist 5 column in MA appears to be written at the high-school level.

I'm still looking for a positive spin...

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 235

What really caused the dues increase? - 1/17/2003 9:44:21 PM   
kwizard


 

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline 		We just had a thought at our club about the 2003 Safety Code.

The new item 7 states that you cannot fly your craft within 25' of anyone, but fails as is the case in other exclusions, to give an exception to events "beyond the control of the pilot"

Does this in fact make the AMA insurance coverage invalid for any accident involving a person being hit by an RC craft, since when the craft hits the person, it will be within the 25' range???

Does this safety rule give the AMA & it's insurance carrier an out?

Any of you legal types out there have any comments?

(in reply to kwizard)
       Post #: 236

AMA - 1/18/2003 12:54:07 AM   
Dave Bowles


 

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		Actually its #8

8) With the exception of events flown under AMA Competition rules, after launch, except for pilots or helpers being used, no powered model may be flown closer than 25 feet to any person.


I believe the word "FLOWN" indicates controled flight , If the Model is out of control it is no longer being "FLOWN" it is simply flying or crashing. So if you are purposly flying your model within 25 feet of another person and an accedent occured and could have been avoided if you were following the code, Then They just May not cover the incedent, It is not that differant than your Car insurance not paying for your injury claims because you were not wearing your seatbelt or because you were breaking the speed laws.

This Rule is simply more specific to rule # 3 in the general rules.

3) Where established, I will abide by the safety rules for the flying site I use, and I will not willfully and deliberately fly my models in a careless, reckless and/or dangerous manner.

And defines what would be considered "a careless, reckless and/or dangerous manner" .

(in reply to kwizard)
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