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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/11/2006 1:54:24 PM   
TheHindmost


 

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From: Camarillo, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: targit

Strange that we need to go to these lengths just to determine which way the ground is, when any object with mass seems to find it with no problem...


LOL, true 'nuff...although once you start pulling any Gs, where the object believes the "ground" is can change wildly. In an airplane during a well-executed barrel roll, an "object with mass" will believe the "ground" is the bottom of the airplane for the entire maneuver, even when the airplane is upside down.

Will


< Message edited by TheHindmost -- 4/15/2006 9:03:56 AM >

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/14/2006 5:00:36 AM   
intrim


 

Posts: 77
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Napa, CA, USA
Status: offline 		even when you are upside down and level you will have to different temps remember when about 15 years ago everyone was buying those silver ball anti gravity arches where the ball would float in the air If you dont have the two different readings to compare the servo electronics wont work The ball looks like it has stopped motionless in mid air but in reality it is being bounced up and down several times a second, riding on an infrared beam as the ball moves upward against the beam it actually starts to cut off the beam. now the servos know a couple of things like where the ball actually is and that it is getting too high. the servos cut power to magnetic field and now the ball starts downward. the lower it gets the stronger the beam of light gets as the curveature of the ball is no longer in the way. the beam stregnthens to a point where now the servo system knows again where exactly the ball is and that it is now too low.if the ball could physically come to a stop in mid air. the servos would nolonger be in controll and the ball would either fall on the ground or stick to the underside of the arch. so you will always have two temps to compare against even if level. I bet as far as computerized control systems go, there is no such thing as level. just too high or too low being broken down to such a fine degree and samples taken several hundred times a second . it just looks level Releatively speaking. This same princible sky talked about when he sets the trims so his DF will stay in front of him with constant forward stick. you dont have to worry about wiggling back and forth trying to hover. just some stick pressure and it looks like its hovering but the draganflyer thinks it is flying backwards all the time. in other words you are not letting the DF decide where it wants to go and then countering it. You are the one in charge so you decide where you want to fly and just cut your hovering workload 50% thats a load off my mind now i can concentrate on aspects of becoming a better pilot


michael

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/14/2006 5:05:54 AM   
intrim


 

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From: Napa, CA, USA
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i thought i read somewhere if you do the manuver the correct way you can put a bowl of water on the floor and when your done you havent spilled a drop

mike

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/14/2006 7:43:49 AM   
TheHindmost


 

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From: Camarillo, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: intrim

hindmost

i thought i read somewhere if you do the manuver the correct way you can put a bowl of water on the floor and when your done you havent spilled a drop

mike


Yep...Another version of that is when the FAA examiner puts a cup of coffee on the glare shield during a checkride. That never happened to me, thank goodness...

Will

_____________________________

"Any airplane you can't roll ain't no damn good." -- "Tex" Johnston

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/17/2006 7:49:20 AM   
targit


 

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Joined: 7/2/2005
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Ok, so I set my DV camcorder up to do a little video to show my mate this thing flying, and guess what? she dropped from the sky like before, but this time I got it on film!

in flight failure

< Message edited by targit -- 4/17/2006 9:34:06 AM >

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/17/2006 4:08:50 PM   
TheHindmost


 

Posts: 442
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From: Camarillo, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Targit, I can't get your video to work on either my older Win98 box or my fully-updated WinXP box. The content type is "dsplayer, video/mpeg." Both boxes try to play it with RealPlayer, which then claims it needs a software update which isn't available...I tried to look at it directly using VideoLan Client, but that didn't work either...

Will

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/17/2006 7:01:05 PM   
targit


 

Posts: 138
Joined: 7/2/2005
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Just says "connecting" for me, thats just super isn't it?dunno what i did wrong here, have to start again i spect :P


I left it "connecting" for a while and then it worked, so not sure what the problem is, its a "dvd quality" .mpg file

< Message edited by targit -- 4/18/2006 3:51:50 AM >

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/17/2006 10:52:26 PM   
Koop


 

Posts: 145
Joined: 3/9/2005
From: , CA, USA
Status: offline 		Well guys, I have had this same issue for quite some time now. Remember my thread labeled DF Wobbles? Well I have sent my board in 3 times now and I still have a glitch. The good part is that when I send it in again there might not be any possible way to fix it. I was flying in a very remote part of Florida and for some reason it did its little glitch thing a couple of times and then it decided to go completely nuts and flip itself upside down and crash on the only solid object withing 100 yards. I will post pictures of the PCB this evening for your viewing pleasure. The great thing is that the canopy and PCB took all of the impact so everything else works. It's a good thing that a CF rod didn't brake because that would have really sucked. Anyway, that's enough sarcasm for now. I'll post some pics later.

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/18/2006 1:00:30 AM   
Koop


 

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From: , CA, USA
Status: offline 		Here's the Pics.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/18/2006 6:26:09 AM   
TheHindmost


 

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From: Camarillo, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: targit

Just says "connecting" for me, thats just super isn't it?dunno what i did wrong here, have to start again i spect :P


I left it "connecting" for a while and then it worked, so not sure what the problem is, its a "dvd quality" .mpg file


DVD-quality MPEG is a pretty high bitrate, generally at least 4 Mbs, and could be higher. Too high for the Internet, at least for most folks, if streaming. Your long "connecting" probably means it had to download most of it before it could start playing it. But at least it played for you. What program ended up playing it?

If I could grab the file itself without pissing off the folks at Putfile (who say that if I try that, they'll take away your videos for "direct linking" , I could convert it to a lower-bitrate Windows movie file easily enough...Can you convert it? If not, how big is it i? You could potentially e-mail it to me for conversion...

I'm becoming suspicious that this "power drop-out" issue is a software glitch...I'm not sure why I think that yet, given how little I know about the DF's internals, but the computer professional in me smells a bug! (I was a systems programmer/architect, UNIX environment, not Windows, for many years.)

Will

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/18/2006 6:29:23 AM   
TheHindmost


 

Posts: 442
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: Camarillo, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Oh man, Koop, so sorry to hear about your accident and see those pics!

Since the boards are basically intact, the damage looks reparable, but still...nasty stuff. Have the folks at DFI ever commented on your wobble issue? I guess they'll just say "RF hit" in response to this "flip of death"...I'm not so sure, though.

Will

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"Any airplane you can't roll ain't no damn good." -- "Tex" Johnston

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/18/2006 9:25:26 AM   
targit


 

Posts: 138
Joined: 7/2/2005
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi,
@will yeah, id did seem to d/l the whole file to play it, and its windows media player that does it, I have the xvid codec installed on all my pc's (the one I uploaded is running win2kpro - 64bitAMD media crunching machine and this little laptop is running xp-home)
so shouldn't be anything special, its 23MB, it just fitted nicely at full quality and tbh you would struggle to see what was going on if i compressed it, i had the camera sitting on a chair and the lense zoomed right out, was pure "luck" that it happened in shot at all, i included the brief flight defore the "In Flight System Failure" just to show I wasn't doing anything strange or stressfull to provoke it.

I am also begining to conclude a microcontroller type problem, I've been programming PICs for a little while now and its kind of familliar the way it just stops. I'm gonna connect up my oscilloscope tonight and take a look at the 5volt rail, the same supply feeds the camera as the microcontroller, and the cmos camera doesn't like running off the onboard power at all, soon as the motors start running the signal goes to crap, but its fine when i add a seperate battery , so I suspect a power filter problem.

Koop, my sympathies. If the IFSF (makes it sound like I know what I'm talking about) that I caught on video had happened when I was going higher or faster I could be looking at a wreck like yours. I got off light, hope it's not too expensive!

not gonna fly mine again untill I find some answer to this.

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/18/2006 4:28:54 PM   
TheHindmost


 

Posts: 442
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: Camarillo, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targit

Hi,
@will yeah, id did seem to d/l the whole file to play it, and its windows media player that does it,


Thanks, Targit...I got RealPlayer to stop trying to play .mpg files and Windows Media Player worked, after waiting for the download. Did you drop the throttle as soon as you saw it glitch? Or did it just fall all the way to the ground on its own? The one and only time I've seen a power drop-out, I was only five feet or so off the ground and it was so short that the DF recovered before it hit.

quote:

I am also begining to conclude a microcontroller type problem, I've been programming PICs for a little while now and its kind of familliar the way it just stops. I'm gonna connect up my oscilloscope tonight and take a look at the 5volt rail, the same supply feeds the camera as the microcontroller, and the cmos camera doesn't like running off the onboard power at all, soon as the motors start running the signal goes to crap, but its fine when i add a seperate battery , so I suspect a power filter problem.


Interesting for sure...I ran my CMOS camera off the on-board power and it worked fine. Are all your motor capacitors installed/intact? Let us know what you find with the scope! Noisy power could definitely be a cause of this...

quote:

not gonna fly mine again untill I find some answer to this.


I've been reluctant to fly mine as well...But I'm going to get back to it. I've been laid up a bit (first the flu, then a dislocated shoulder--ouch!), but I'm on the mend.

Will

_____________________________

"Any airplane you can't roll ain't no damn good." -- "Tex" Johnston

(in reply to targit)
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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/18/2006 11:47:16 PM   
targit


 

Posts: 138
Joined: 7/2/2005
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Got side trackedin the workshop last night, no news on the noise yet, but no I didn't touch the throttle, it just fell down like the power went off , i was hoping to see if i could see if my flight lights went out, but it's too far away. I edited the swearing off the end, all you hear is the stunned silence!

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RE: What The.... Noooooooo! - 4/19/2006 12:31:35 AM   
TheHindmost