poor mans glow fuel

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volksman -> poor mans glow fuel (12/13/2002 2:21:34 AM)
methyl hydrate and used oil from a gas turbine will run a glow engine ive tried it but havent flown with it. engine seems to run fine. any one ever fly on methylhydrate?

tdriver -> poor mans glow fuel (12/13/2002 4:58:41 AM)
i havn't tried methyl hydrate,but i tested today turbine oil on glow fuel (exxon 2380). very good lubrication,even better idle (200rpm lower),and better transition,all this compared to castor.

HankHill -> poor mans glow fuel (12/13/2002 6:30:34 AM)
Where do you get the methyl hydrate? Most of my engines need 0% nitro fuel and I have 2380 running out my butt. I have been thinking of mixing my own.

volksman -> poor mans glow fuel (12/13/2002 4:27:23 PM)
methyl hydrate is used for thinning shellac also as an antifreeze for auto gas and diesel should be available at home depo

Ross Kean -> poor mans glow fuel (12/13/2002 7:52:18 PM)
Methyl hydrate is chemically IDENTICAL to methanol (CH3OH). It is also a component of windshield washer antifreeze (not pure). If you are using methyl hydrate in your fuel mix, I would suggest that you make sure that the product specification is no less than 99.5%. The most probably impurity is water and it doesn't take much to have a bad effect on engine performance. Ross

downunder-RCU -> poor mans glow fuel (12/14/2002 4:29:46 AM)
Based on what Ross said above I did a google search and found that methyl hydrate, wood alcohol and methanol are all one and the same thing. Mobil Jet Oil 2 and the Exxon (now BP) 2380 are fine for our use but the latest 3rd generation Mobil jet oil won't mix with methanol. Personally I'd have no problem with using old jet oil drained out during a service because it doesn't degrade in use and there are virtually no contaminants. Also it should be free if you ask nicely :D

rsieminski -> poor mans glow fuel (12/16/2002 7:08:37 AM)
1.) How often do they change the oil in a turbine? 2.) Where would you go to get the used stuff? The airport? I don't think the airport, now-a-days, will let you get close to where they service the planes, will they? They had 1 qt on the shelf of a local "pilot store", they wanted $12 a gal.

h82crash -> poor mans glow fuel (12/18/2002 11:58:39 AM)
Will aeroshell 500 mix with methanol? And, the 2380 oil new is 6.89 a qt. This is a lot cheaper than i can get klotz.

Sport_Pilot -> poor mans glow fuel (12/18/2002 7:01:47 PM)
*Personally I'd have no problem with using old jet oil drained out during a service because it doesn't degrade in use and there are virtually no contaminants.* Obviously this is false or they wouldn't be changing the oil. Jet oil is toxic stuff, I don't recommend using it. For our use castor oil is a better lubricant.

downunder-RCU -> poor mans glow fuel (12/18/2002 8:12:40 PM)
This is an abbreviated quote from the MSDS for Mobil Jet Oil 2. The full version is at http://www.aopis.org/Mobil%20Jet%20Oil%202%20MSDS.html ORAL TOXICITY (RATS): Practically non-toxic DERMAL TOXICITY (RABBITS): Practically non-toxic INHALATION TOXICITY (RATS): Practically non-toxic

volksman -> poor mans glow fuel (12/19/2002 7:25:47 PM)
THE TOXIC QUALITYS OF TURBINE OIL ARE NOT AN ISSUE IF YA WORK ON TURBINES YA GOT IT ON YOUR HANDS AND TOOLS ALL DAY. THE ONLY THING THAT COMES TO MIND IS IF A PLATED WRENCH WITH A SCRATCH IS CONSTANTLY USED IN THE OIL IT WILL EVENTUALLY DEBOND THE CHROME. INDUSTRIAL FINISH IS TO BE USED. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THE PEELING OS LINERS AINT SUITABLE.

volksman -> poor mans glow fuel (12/19/2002 7:35:15 PM)
forgot to mention in post above not a rocket scientist but a gas turbine tech grad

tdriver -> poor mans glow fuel (12/20/2002 3:52:39 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by volksman THE THE ONLY THING THAT COMES TO MIND IS IF A PLATED WRENCH WITH A SCRATCH IS CONSTANTLY USED IN THE OIL IT WILL EVENTUALLY DEBOND THE CHROME. INDUSTRIAL FINISH IS TO BE USED. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THE PEELING OS LINERS AINT SUITABLE. [/QUOTE] same thing happened to the tools in our garage (cars). I think if the chromed tool get scratched,it will eventually peel off,no matter what liquid will touch it.

volksman -> poor mans glow fuel (12/20/2002 7:05:36 PM)
this is part of a major turbine manufacturers instructions concerning tools to be used. the reasoning is that the oil will lift the chrome finish on the tools wich can put foreign material into the engine. some of the posts above cocern the changing of oil and the degredation of the oil. uder max fuel flow the combustor temps can get over twelve hudred degrees the metals will withstand in the order of 1600 f this will form carbon in the oil over time also there are some wear items carbon seals etc which leave their residue in the oil my model engines are older most no prizes will use old oil no problem its cheap fuel i fly by the gal per trip to the feild not a gal a summer. makes sense for me. if a model engine can get 20-30 gal put through with out bearing failures you are doing well. the bearings have a given number of rotations with proper care until the molecular structure starts to fall apart. this was very evident on older asp engines. the alloys in the steel balls fell apart real fast. price usually determines quality usually

rsieminski -> poor mans glow fuel (12/22/2002 12:26:45 PM)
Carbon solids in the oil? Do you filter the fuel after it's mixed? Oops I meant $12 a qt. Where/how do you go about getting the oil?

OIL CAN DAN -> poor mans glow fuel (12/22/2002 9:07:48 PM)
couldn't I just add casor to the methanol and be ok?

smitty70 -> poor mans glow fuel (12/26/2002 4:32:41 PM)
What is the stuff called at home depot. I looked for methal hydrate in the paint dept. and found nothing......

h82crash -> poor mans glow fuel (12/27/2002 11:40:15 AM)
At home depot its called denatured alcohol.

Ross Kean -> poor mans glow fuel (12/27/2002 4:00:45 PM)
I wouldn't recommend "denatured" alcohol. This normally refers to ethyl alcohol with an added denaturant to make it undrinkable. At the very least, I would suggest that you have a look at the specs for whatever you buy. If it doesn't clearly say 99.5% or better, don't use it. The compound is methyl alcohol, methyl hydrate or wood alcohol. Sometimes called methylated spirits, but be careful on that one. If you're not sure, you had better be willing to waste a $250.00 engine for the sake of a couple of dollars worth of fuel. Ross

h82crash -> poor mans glow fuel (12/30/2002 10:38:19 AM)
Not sure if Smitty70 wants to use is as fuel, but it won't save a few bucks. Pure methanol can be had for about $2.50 a gallon. the Home Depot stuff is about $2.50 a quart.

OIL CAN DAN -> poor mans glow fuel (12/30/2002 11:34:00 AM)
I am going to talk to a local racetrack tomorrow and just so I don't sound completley stupid, He refered to the fuel that he had there as alcohol, I take it that that is the term used for methanol in racing??? Any good responses for me to give him so as to make me apear more inteligent?

Ross Kean -> poor mans glow fuel (12/30/2002 5:23:13 PM)
There are many different types of "alcohol". If it is used for racing, it is almost certainly methanol which is what you need. The only concern would be the specifications for the material, particularly the maximum specification for the water content. Less is better, but anything less than a couple of percent water should be OK. As I have indicated before, the "alcohol" may be identified as methyl alcohol, methanol, methyl hydrate or wood alcohol - all the same stuff. Be wary about how the stuff was stored. Try to avoid getting alcohol from a drum that has been opened for awhile. If they didn't take some care to minimize exposure to humid air, it might have absorbed water. Ross

OIL CAN DAN -> poor mans glow fuel (12/30/2002 7:34:00 PM)
Thanks Ross, I'll let you know how it goes. Dan

Ikaros -> poor mans glow fuel (1/1/2003 9:59:43 AM)
Both methanol CH3OH(normal glow fuel) and ethanol C2H5OH(booze) works with glow engines. Rubbing alcohol wich is essentially ethanol, normally mixed with 5% methanol and "bitrex" (making it undrinkable), can be used as fuel for glow engines if top performance is not needed. The stuff you put in your gas-tank to prevent ice blockings, is normally 99,6% ethanol, rest is water and bitrex or similair yucko. More expensive than rubbing alcohol though. Engine will most certainly be difficult to start in cold weather if ethanol is used (lower steam-pressure or what you call it) I have read about people trying this with great success. Do not try to run your engines on burbon though too much water in it :D The stuff you put in your wind shield flushing system is normally 2-propanol (iso-propanol or isopropylic alcohol) wich is not suitable as a piston engine fuel at all. Cheers, Ikaros

David Cutler -> poor mans glow fuel (1/1/2003 10:12:57 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ross Kean I wouldn't recommend "denatured" alcohol. This normally refers to ethyl alcohol with an added denaturant to make it undrinkable. At the very least, I would suggest that you have a look at the specs for whatever you buy. If it doesn't clearly say 99.5% or better, don't use it. The compound is methyl alcohol, methyl hydrate or wood alcohol. Sometimes called methylated spirits, but be careful on that one. If you're not sure, you had better be willing to waste a $250.00 engine for the sake of a couple of dollars worth of fuel. Ross [/QUOTE] I think you'll find that denaturing is for a rather more mercenary reason. There is a tax on ethyl alcohol as it can be used to produce cosmetics, industrial chemicals and fuels such as "gasohol". Potable ethyl alcohol cannot be recovered from the non-taxed specially denatured alcohol (SDA) to protect the income from this tax. David C.

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