RE: Esky Lama V3  
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Electric RC Helis >> Esky Helicopters >> RE: Esky Lama V3
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RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/12/2007 5:55:45 PM   
vega2614


 

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/23/2006
From: Morton Grove, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks! I noticed no one had ever done a below heli shot, at least of the clips I had seen.

Wow, I didn't even think of that. I guess the stabilizer bar could deflect that much to hit the lower blades. I was having trouble visualizing how it would hit the upper rotor, but thought maybe the strain of the fast-moving parts could bend it enough to collide.

I actually just got some footage of the heli going into a death roll. I got it caught in some flowers while I was making sure the heli was in the viewfinder of my camera. When I noticed it was getting stuck, I full throttled and came out, then hovered for about a half second, then randomly the Lama veered off to the side and smashed into the wall. It was as if I was applying full aileron. As usual, I didn't hear any wierd noises of any kind. There must be something going on with the electronics. I'll post the video when I get home.

(in reply to CCbusa05)
       Post #: 26

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/14/2007 2:29:57 AM   
LittleMacV


 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/18/2005
From: Holtsville, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. I like the term “Death Roll” cause that exactly what it is. I patched her up and took her to the HS gym again Monday night. I was flying it with another Lama owner standing behind me. He knows the trouble I’ve been having and so was watching closely. I flew it for about 5 minutes with no problems; it was perfectly trimmed in hover, and I was flying gentle figure 8’s about five feet up and 10 feet to the left and right of myself. And then it happened again… Death Roll! My buddy’s jaw dropped; it was flying so nice you’d never expect this. There was no jerky stick motions, no full stick travel, just coordinated turns using cyclic, power and yaw. I noticed the stabilizer bar was tilted hard (like 30 or 40 degrees) in the direction of the roll (left). There was no blade strike, no radio failure. Go figure – the stabilizer bar seems to be wigging out!

Vega – I agree, its time for some video!

Now I’m wondering, how about putting a damper on the stabilizer bar? Maybe a small O ring or a chunk of silicone fuel line might limit the travel of this puppy and help prevent this behavior.

Say, do the other co-axial choppers do this (Blade/ Hirobo)? I’ve noticed most folks with these heli’s just hover.

-Doug

(in reply to CCbusa05)
       Post #: 27

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/14/2007 3:37:18 PM   
vega2614


 

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/23/2006
From: Morton Grove, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Ok, so I took some video of the helicopter doing a death roll. At least in my case, the stabilizer bar definitely did not hit the bottom rotor blades. I get the chopper caught on some flowers and then pull up and straighten out quickly. I hover for about a half second and then suddenly the servos freak out and I get full left aileron. The chopper crashes into a wall almost immediately. I was looking at the distance between the stabilizer bar and the bottom rotor and there is like 2 inches of space. I don't see how they could hit, even with flexing the bottom rotor (I held the heli by the tips of the bottom rotor just to see) and stabilizer bar.

I think every time I've had a death roll, it has been due to one of the servos freaking out. For some reason, this is induced by abrupt transmitter input.

The video is here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=b9j08or0iRg . Look about half-way through and you'll see a slow-mo and super-slow-mo of the servo freaking out. The quality isn't good, but you can kind of see what happens. Just keep in mind, after I get up above the flowers, I didn't use ailerons at all. That was all the AI of the helicopter . More videos to follow...

(in reply to LittleMacV)
       Post #: 28

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/14/2007 7:43:01 PM   
LittleMacV


 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/18/2005
From: Holtsville, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Vega, Nice movie clip! I don’t know if it proves the existence of the “death roll”, but it sure speaks to the durability of the Lama! I’ll bring my camera to the next HS fly night (still 2 weeks away) and see if I can get a closer shot. Nice catch at the end of your flick!

(in reply to vega2614)
       Post #: 29

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/15/2007 5:47:16 AM   
vega2614


 

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/23/2006
From: Morton Grove, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the comments. What's seen in the video twice (once at beginning, once at middle) is what I am refering to as the death roll. I'm not sure if that's the right term for it; you might be experiencing something different that I haven't yet encountered.

I am convinced now that one of the servos is acting up after abrupt servo/throttle input. You'll notice in the video that it just randomly gives full aileron even after I had it stably hovering, although for a very short time. The video at the beginning where you only see the end of the death roll was a bit different scenario. I was about to crash into something and quickly pulled away, only to have it suddenly lose stability and keep pulling away but at a faster and faster rate, even though I was trying to counter.

When the Lama goes into my version of the "death roll", nothing collides and the motors are still running. The heli just freaks out and usually my reflexes aren't fast enough to counter the full servo freak-out. It flies so quickly to the side that I have very little time to react before it smashes into something.

I'll definitely take some more videos, maybe next time with a human controlling the camera rather than it just sitting on top of a shelf or table. Or I could try attaching the camera to my head like in that one youtube video. I'm just afraid I'll mess up my Lama pretty bad if I crash hard. Let me know when you get some footage.

(in reply to LittleMacV)
       Post #: 30

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/15/2007 7:19:49 AM   
retired911guy


 

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/24/2006
From: Hurdle Mills, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Some additional light would also help as it is difficult to see sometimes.

(in reply to vega2614)
       Post #: 31

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/15/2007 4:25:50 PM   
vega2614


 

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/23/2006
From: Morton Grove, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, agreed. Some of the clips are from when I first got the chopper, so I was just messing around with the camera while I was more focused on learning to fly it. Later filming sessions were done with more light.

I also have an actual digital video camera I could use, which might improve the quality. All the clips of the Lama on YouTube are with my digital still picture camera. Additionally, a cameraman would greatly help, because he could zoom in and track the chopper on its course to destruction .

(in reply to retired911guy)
       Post #: 32

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/15/2007 8:53:57 PM   
CCbusa05


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Carson City, NV, USA
Status: offline 		Hey vega2614,

You more than likely have checked this out thoroughly, but thought I'd mention it anyway. I have read on more than one occasion of Lamas just going haywire for no apparent reason. What some have found is that when they uplug the battery and slowly move (by hand) the servos full up and then full down that sometimes the swashplate would hang up on a motor, a glob of motor solder or even a motor wire. Worth looking into for everyone, actually!

(in reply to vega2614)
       Post #: 33

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/16/2007 1:35:37 AM   
vega2614


 

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/23/2006
From: Morton Grove, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I'll take a look at that. Thanks!

(in reply to CCbusa05)
       Post #: 34

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/16/2007 4:47:42 AM   
up4speed


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/31/2006
From: Lake Grove, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Quick question,
My coco Lama V3 flew rock solid (maybe with one or two trim corrections per battery pack), until recently. It seems that I am always chasing the tail to trim it out. It varies which direction it drifts, but it may start out rotating to the left, then a minute later back to the right, then left, then left, then right etc. I seem to be doing this for the full battery charge every 1/2 to 1 minute. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Do I maybe have worn out motors? If so, can I get upgraded ones? Thanks in advance.

(in reply to vega2614)
       Post #: 35

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/16/2007 6:03:48 PM   
CCbusa05


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Carson City, NV, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: up4speed

Quick question,
My coco Lama V3 flew rock solid (maybe with one or two trim corrections per battery pack), until recently. It seems that I am always chasing the tail to trim it out. It varies which direction it drifts, but it may start out rotating to the left, then a minute later back to the right, then left, then left, then right etc. I seem to be doing this for the full battery charge every 1/2 to 1 minute. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Do I maybe have worn out motors? If so, can I get upgraded ones? Thanks in advance.



First thing you want to do when you first lift off with a fresh battery is immediately note which way your yaw is. Land and make proportional screw (on the 4in1) adjustment accordingly. What you are looking to accomplish is a straight tracking tail UPON FIRST LIFT OFF with a freshly charged battery. OK, next, fly for 30 to 60 seconds (make NO rudder trim adjustment during this period) then land. Unplug and rearm your battery and fly as you normally would. You should now only have to make minor and infrequent rudder trim adjustments during the course of your flight (10 minutes +/-).
Now, if the above had no effect on your frequent trimming during flight, you might want to try increasing the gyro gain ever so slightly (your tail will quiver if you have increased it too much).
Regardless, get into the habit of initially flying for 30 to 60 seconds, landing, then rearming, then flying as you normally would. Believe it or not, this little trick works wonders!


< Message edited by CCbusa05 -- 2/16/2007 6:05:03 PM >

(in reply to up4speed)
       Post #: 36

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/16/2007 6:53:56 PM   
retired911guy


 

Posts: 76
Joined: 12/24/2006
From: Hurdle Mills, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I will give that a try, but it all points to the same thing: there is some basic flaw in the Lama V3 flight control system. You should not HAVE to do something like that; you don't have to on other helicopters. My BCX2 does not require such a "workaround". My Lama has had a new receiver installed since the first one was trashed in a devastating "death roll" from about 50 ft. up. I have not logged enough flight time to see if the replacement receiver is subject to the same problems as the one that originally came in it. There was a lot of difference in the 2 receivers. Since the upper shaft broke where the stabilizer bar is attached in a very minor collision with a chair leg, I replaced that shaft with the original shaft from my BCX2, which I had upgraded to CNC aluminum parts. I will spend some time flying it and see if what you suggest makes a difference. Thanks for the suggestion!!

(in reply to CCbusa05)
       Post #: 37

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/16/2007 7:09:01 PM   
CCbusa05


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Carson City, NV, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: retired911guy

I will give that a try, but it all points to the same thing: there is some basic flaw in the Lama V3 flight control system. You should not HAVE to do something like that; you don't have to on other helicopters. My BCX2 does not require such a "workaround". My Lama has had a new receiver installed since the first one was trashed in a devastating "death roll" from about 50 ft. up. I have not logged enough flight time to see if the replacement receiver is subject to the same problems as the one that originally came in it. There was a lot of difference in the 2 receivers. Since the upper shaft broke where the stabilizer bar is attached in a very minor collision with a chair leg, I replaced that shaft with the original shaft from my BCX2, which I had upgraded to CNC aluminum parts. I will spend some time flying it and see if what you suggest makes a difference. Thanks for the suggestion!!

I also own a BCX2 but still adhere to the above practice. Seems that resetting the 4in1 as the gyro and motors warm up towards actual operating temperature helps to stablize your flight.

(in reply to retired911guy)
       Post #: 38

RE: Esky Lama V3 - 2/16/2007 10