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RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/26/2006 1:24:58 PM   
Matt-in-the-hat



Posts: 35
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: St. CAtharines, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Wow big surprise. Horizon has pushed back release of FS One to mid october now. I have one word for them PATHETIC! why don't they just say on the website. We're having issues, we don't know when it will be ready. instead of pushing it back to a date they know they probably won;t reach. Oh yea, and they also say it will be released summer of 06, not sure when they last looked at a calender but summer is over in a couple of weeks, and last I checked it dosn;t go into October.

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 51

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/26/2006 1:32:46 PM   
50%plane



Posts: 3759
Joined: 3/8/2005
From: x, , USA
Status: offline 		darn! I guess I will never fly it.

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(in reply to Matt-in-the-hat)
       Post #: 52

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/26/2006 6:12:52 PM   
aviti


 

Posts: 681
Joined: 12/3/2002
From: Ballwin, MO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt-in-the-hat

Wow big surprise. Horizon has pushed back release of FS One to mid october now. I have one word for them PATHETIC! why don't they just say on the website. We're having issues, we don't know when it will be ready. instead of pushing it back to a date they know they probably won;t reach. Oh yea, and they also say it will be released summer of 06, not sure when they last looked at a calender but summer is over in a couple of weeks, and last I checked it dosn;t go into October.


This happens with almost any new airplane, radio, engine, sim. We wanna know about new products as soon as we can but then we get angry when there are delays. G3 came out with a bunch of bugs probably because they tried to meet a date they shouldn't have. Just be patient. I'd also suggest waiting until a few others have tried the new sim before buying it yourself. I have AFPD and just recently got G3. By the time I am getting bored with G3 I'm sure FS One will be out with most of the bugs fixed....

By the way, you might think of it like this. You start a new plane with the hopes of getting it done in a month. Some other things come up, some of the additional parts you need are out of stock, you encounter some problems with construction....while you had great intentions of getting it done for the next big fly in, it takes an extra month....

(in reply to Matt-in-the-hat)
       Post #: 53

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/26/2006 9:20:59 PM   
50%plane



Posts: 3759
Joined: 3/8/2005
From: x, , USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aviti


quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt-in-the-hat

Wow big surprise. Horizon has pushed back release of FS One to mid october now. I have one word for them PATHETIC! why don't they just say on the website. We're having issues, we don't know when it will be ready. instead of pushing it back to a date they know they probably won;t reach. Oh yea, and they also say it will be released summer of 06, not sure when they last looked at a calender but summer is over in a couple of weeks, and last I checked it dosn;t go into October.


This happens with almost any new airplane, radio, engine, sim. We wanna know about new products as soon as we can but then we get angry when there are delays. G3 came out with a bunch of bugs probably because they tried to meet a date they shouldn't have. Just be patient. I'd also suggest waiting until a few others have tried the new sim before buying it yourself. I have AFPD and just recently got G3. By the time I am getting bored with G3 I'm sure FS One will be out with most of the bugs fixed....

By the way, you might think of it like this. You start a new plane with the hopes of getting it done in a month. Some other things come up, some of the additional parts you need are out of stock, you encounter some problems with construction....while you had great intentions of getting it done for the next big fly in, it takes an extra month....

yea, but a delay from July to October is pretty big.......

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Model Airplanes don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to aviti)
       Post #: 54

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/27/2006 2:27:14 AM   
L0stS0ul



Posts: 549
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Not really, Considering the lead time needed to get these things on store shelves that's about right. I'd rather them take a bit longer and get it right then do what Realflight did with G3. I don't think any new simulator can make that mistake now that there are already 3 mature sims on the market. They have to be as good or better.

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 55

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/28/2006 1:20:38 AM   
NightOne


 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Millington, TN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 50%plane



yea, but a delay from July to October is pretty big.......




That is nothing. The software industry is notorious for missing ship dates.

You should have seen the delays on Dungeon Siege 2.

oh.. and do we need to mention Windows Vista?

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 56

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/28/2006 1:44:59 AM   
NightOne


 

Posts: 138
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From: Millington, TN, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IFlySlowPlanes

With all these sims coming in at around $200, is it only a matter of time before one company or another realizes that in order to win market share, they'll need to lower their prices? I mean, I know we're supposed to think "Yeah, but it's still cheaper than wrecking a real one." And let's not forget, "But this is such a small demographic....we have to make up for the lack of volume!"

While I won't go so far as to say these programs are the equivalent of other mass-market video games, and should therefore be priced comparably, I DO think every one of these programs is over-priced, particularly when you consider the hardware requirements to make them function at anywhere near the capability they demonstrate in ads and on the show floors.

I for one won't bother until the prices become reasonable (and yes, I know my definition of reasonable may be different from yours!). Not saying "never"...because that's a long time!

Just my $0.02


I agree with the $200 price tag. It is just too much for what it is. I think a $99 price point is where they really need to be at to generate a greater number of sales.

I'm sure there are several arguments supporting this price and I will address a few of them.

1. $200 is cheaper that crashing a plane

However, point is that none of the simulators guarantee your plane at the field. As good as the best simulator may be, it is not the real thing and practicing on it may help you at the field, but it isn't enough in itself as the realism isn't all the way there. In fact, you could argue that the simulator might actually make a person a little over confident and cause them to crash the real plane. I'm sure someone has said: "that didn't happpen like that on the simulator".

2. Development costs have to be recouped

Of course they do. I don't know how many millions of dollars they spent developing the DVD player, but I can guarantee you not many people would have paid $10,000 for one. Volume comes when the price point gets to a key area. The basis of any sales decision is pretty simple. When Value > Price or Perceived Value > Price, a sale is made. When not, people don't buy. I don't know the magic that so many companies use to develop products and recoup their R&D cost, but it is not by being overpriced in the marketplace. It just so happens that the RC Sim market hasn't had anyone do a price drop yet.

3. They don't sell enough copies to justify a lower price

There is a balance between volume and profitability. A company has to determine how many units it can move at each price point. It also has to determine how large their marketplace is and how many potential customers exist. However, marketing can help overcome some of these issue. For example, bundling a "Lite" version of a Sim with airplanes could result in much greater sales by putting the product in front of more eyes than traditional marketing.

There are others as well.

My point is this...

If I am sitting in my living room and not jumping at the $200 price tag then it results in no sale. However, if I would buy at $99 and one other person would too then the math is simple. ZERO at $200 or TWO at $99. Looks like a $0/$198 difference. What would the developer rather have?

I truly believe that $99 is the magic number.


(in reply to IFlySlowPlanes)
       Post #: 57

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/28/2006 2:20:46 AM   
Zelatio



Posts: 767
Joined: 12/10/2005
From: St. Peters, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Well said Nightone. A hundred bucks would deffinently be the magic number I believe also.

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RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/28/2006 4:15:28 AM   
GeneG



Posts: 118
Joined: 9/11/2004
From: Yardville, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Its the market that drives the price point. Not the individual. As much as you want it to be $100 because that it what you feel its worth, the market says otherwise. All RC Flight sims are in the same price range. Do you think that is just a coincidence?. Thats the price the market settled on. They will make money on FS One selling it at $209 (or $200) because they know that people have already bought other sims at that price and they think that FS One is a better product.

I know its hard to swallow but the idea is to make as much money as you can, not just enough. When you price a new product for market you always price it high for two simple reasons. People will pay a premium to be an early adopter and you can ALWAYS lower the price (you can NEVER raise it). You want to price a product so that a small percentage of your customers complain about it and don't purchase it. Being in that situation means you priced the product right and are getting the best return on your investment through the majority of your customers that are buying it.

If it was your product and your R&D money that went into it you would do the same exact thing. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.


< Message edited by GeneG -- 8/28/2006 4:16:43 AM >

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RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/28/2006 3:10:22 PM   
NightOne


 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Millington, TN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneG

Its the market that drives the price point. Not the individual. As much as you want it to be $100 because that it what you feel its worth, the market says otherwise. All RC Flight sims are in the same price range. Do you think that is just a coincidence?. Thats the price the market settled on. They will make money on FS One selling it at $209 (or $200) because they know that people have already bought other sims at that price and they think that FS One is a better product.

I know its hard to swallow but the idea is to make as much money as you can, not just enough. When you price a new product for market you always price it high for two simple reasons. People will pay a premium to be an early adopter and you can ALWAYS lower the price (you can NEVER raise it). You want to price a product so that a small percentage of your customers complain about it and don't purchase it. Being in that situation means you priced the product right and are getting the best return on your investment through the majority of your customers that are buying it.

If it was your product and your R&D money that went into it you would do the same exact thing. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.




It is not that I *want* it to be $100. If it was based on me, I would want it to be $20.

My point is that at $200, I'm not a buyer. At $99 I would be. Apparently there are many other as well. How much revenue is getting left on the table?

I agree with your point that newer products are always priced higher. I also have to point out that some of these flight sims aren't so new anymore.

As far as it being my R&D money, I would definitely want to get it back along with my profit. However, I only care about the per unit price as it relates to how many units can be moved. One buyer at $4M = Two Buyers at $2M..etc. I'm more concerned about how many buyers I think I got out there and how does the math work out after that.

Of course you could argue that cutting the price 1/2 may generate twice as many buyers but result in the same revenue. This is true. But when you release a $20 add-on, you now have twice as many potential buyers which has a greater upside.


(in reply to GeneG)
       Post #: 60

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/28/2006 5:15:43 PM   
GeneG



Posts: 118
Joined: 9/11/2004
From: Yardville, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		You need to keep in mind that FS One's potential market is small and fixed. FS One would only be of interest to people that are a subset within the RC Market (which itself is already a niche). Hangar 9 can only expect to sell a limited number of copies. It's not the same market as other software (which is a somewhat small market in itself, although not niche). So it has to price according to that market and projected sales. Working within a wholesale model works if your products have a broad appeal or if they are consumables.

You need to sell to the percentage of your market that are going to buy it, not that could buy it. Even at $20, people that have other sims may not buy it because they already have one. The number of increased sales you would get at $20 in a fixed market will not overcome the loss of revenue you suffer per unit when compared against $200. There are just not enough interested people out there to overcome the difference.

If you think its too expensive than you shouldn't buy it and convince others as well. Vote with your wallet. If enough people refuse to buy FS One at $200 than Hangar 9 will be forced to lower the price.

Hangar 9 knows their market and I think FS One will do fine at that price point.

I just hope its a good sim.

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The only way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large fortune.

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       Post #: 61

RE: FS one by Horizon Hobbies - 8/28/2006 6:07:40 PM   
NightOne


 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Millington, TN, USA
Status: offline 		The business landscape is littered with defunct companies who thought they "knew their market.

The market already has 3 sims at $200 per. FSOne will make it 4.

IMHO, if the market supports 4 sims at $200 price levels then it certainly can support only 2 at $100.

Heck, if we want to talk about niche markets...the whole RC plane industry is a niche market.

I stand by my original points. Also, remember I said the original magic price is $99. (not $20)

(in reply to GeneG)