RE: FS One by Hangar 9

RE: FS One by Hangar 9
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RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 4:15:08 AM

johnny_G

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/29/2008
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Status: offline

Hello all...

So this is basically what happened...

- people at work have been buying the Air Hogs helis to harass other coworkers

- i decided to try to find a micro plane to "take them out"

- internet research lead me to many fun articles of passion about rc planes - including an article about "UnModding" the ITC StarScream micro flyer.

- during a particular boring lunch one day, i drop into the local RS and found a StarScream microflyer as a managers special for $25.

- take it to my local park (probably one of the most populated parks in the US - Prosepect Park, Brooklyn NY), proceed to have 1.5 hours of unexpected joy playing with this thing.

- realize that although there is much randomness to this toy, I am quite week in response to many situations and proceed to research RC flight sims

So obviously as far as RC planes go, I am kinda a beginner, though I would argue that my learning curve would be relatively fast, as I have quite a bit of experience in a glider (real flying experience - don't have my license but have solo'd over 10 times - basically, I understand basic flight principles - including the ever so scary spin recovery) and I seem to pick up video games fairly quickly - and when you think about it the two disciplines share many of the same hand-eye coordination skills.

Now, here is where I am at. After much research and reading articles online, I am leaning towards FS One. For two reasons. 1) Apparently, they get the physics right and 2) The passion shown by the developers on many RC forums is inspiring (being an engineer/sw developer myself, I respect this). I am also considering Realflight G4. The only real reason why I am considering G4 is because of the detailed revelation given on their product page about the "training" options. I think it would be really beneficial to watch the stick movements of certain arial maneuvers when trying to learn them.

So to make a long question short (sorry for those you have followed this far)... how are the training features of FS One compared to G4?

Of course the sw engineer in me wants to know things like the Poly count difference (in planes) between FS One and G4, and whether either of these programs are using Shader 2.0 features, can I increase texture detail based on GPU performance, etc..... but for now, I will be happy in knowing which one is best suited for teaching me how do all those f'n cool aerobatic tricks...

thanks,

-j

(in reply to sctholson)

Post #: 1476

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 4:23:37 AM

johnny_G

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/29/2008
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Status: offline

p.s... forgot to mention that I have always been fascinated with RC airplanes, and am totally enthralled with the 3D flying stuff - especially the cheesy indoor aerial gymnastics to music stuff. who knew? i vote that we save the music industry with RC airplane gymnastics!

-j

(in reply to johnny_G)

Post #: 1477

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 12:05:39 PM

sctholson

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/22/2007
From: Woodstock, VT, USA
Status: offline

Johnny
FSOne does have a series of training videos built in and those do have the stick movements on screen to follow. How it compares to G4 I have no idea. Shader 2 ? Poly? I have no idea.
Scott H

(in reply to johnny_G)

Post #: 1478

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 3:57:31 PM

Big Green Machine

Posts: 778
Joined: 1/2/2007
From: Victoria, BC, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnny_G

trying to learn them.

So to make a long question short (sorry for those you have followed this far)... how are the training features of FS One compared to G4?

Of course the sw engineer in me wants to know things like the Poly count difference (in planes) between FS One and G4, and whether either of these programs are using Shader 2.0 features, can I increase texture detail based on GPU performance, etc..... but for now, I will be happy in knowing which one is best suited for teaching me how do all those f'n cool aerobatic tricks...

thanks,

-j

1. Thats becuase G4 has extensive training features, FSone only has some videos to watch.

2. As far as pixel shading is concerned G4 requires a card with atleast PS 1.3 FSone doesn't matter as I don;t think it uses any. If it is graphics that you are concerned about get G4 hands down. Infact, get G4 anyways. For the same price you are getting- real moving water that ripples for landings and take offs where aircraft bobs up and down realistically whereas FSone has no water at all, night time flying with neon light instead of only daytime flyings, 20 3D maps instead of 5, 65 aircrat instead of 41, freely downloadable user created aircraft instead of none, and extensive training options instead of few. G4 is brand new and it shows with its graphics and features, FSone is over a year old and starting to show it's age, especially considering that in the over a year since its been out it has seen very little extra content or changes except for 1 expansion pack and likely won;t see any more changes until a new version is released. Get G4 and you already have access to a bunch of Epxansion packs and free downloadable content not to mention very slick graphics to play with.

Don;t get me wrong, FSone is a great program and I have used and enjoyed it, when it was being compared againt G3.5 it was a lot easier to go with it, Now that G4 is out its a pretty hard sell.

< Message edited by Big Green Machine -- 1/29/2008 3:59:45 PM >

(in reply to johnny_G)

Post #: 1479

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 5:23:22 PM

MSelig

Posts: 282
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: , IL, USA
Status: offline

BGM:

Obviously my favorite is FS One, and yours is G4. That said here's
what I think.

My thinking is why spend time flying any sim unless the physics are
top notch. Doing anything less is a waste of time. Also on top of
that it's "negative training".

The FS One videos are out there to let people make their own
decisions. I know I have posted this before on RCU, but here's some
comparisons between real spins and FS One (various planes in the sim
and then real video of the same planes):

FSOne: http://www.inertiasoft.com/videos/fs1_SimulatedSpins.wmv
Real: http://www.inertiasoft.com/videos/fs1_RealSpins.wmv

Spins are the biggest challenge for any sim. Find videos of the other
sims that look as real. I've not found any and this includes going
outside R/C simulators and into commerical sims and research.

The numbers game is one thing, but it's worth making a side-by-side
comparison of planes. In FS One we don't count permutations as
separate airplanes. Also, we don't have some gimmicks like blimps and
hawks, etc. We include airplanes that are very popular - a lot from
Hangar 9 and E-flite that are on the market today. We do have a
scaling wizard that will scale an airplane up or down in size and the
physics is scaled automatically. So with that there are an literally
an infinite number of airplanes in FS One. We included many scaled
variants already setup. Here's the list that we did not include in
any numbers count on the box labelling.

http://www.inertiasoft.com/fsonefaq/#Q1021-FS1

Aside from my opinion on all this (and I do think our physics are top
notch and nothing is better), here's another opinion:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=832

Michael
(FS One aero developer / airplanes ... and day job includes teaching this stuff)

_____________________________

FS One
FAQs: www.inertiasoft.com/fsonefaq, VIDEO PARKING SPACE: www.inertiasoft.com/videos

(in reply to Big Green Machine)

Post #: 1480

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 5:32:34 PM

mflander

Posts: 245
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: Elk River, MN, USA
Status: offline

I flew reflex and g4 before getting FS One, and have to agree with Mike. I found with FSOne, if I could do the maneuvers there, I could do them in real life... after flying fsone for several months, when I fly other sims(and I fly others alot, I work at a LHS), I find them very easy, Which isn't necessarily what you want in a learning tool, unless you want your friends to think your cool because you can fly so good on the computer

.

(in reply to MSelig)

Post #: 1481

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 5:47:28 PM

Big Green Machine

Posts: 778
Joined: 1/2/2007
From: Victoria, BC, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MSelig

BGM:

Obviously my favorite is FS One, and yours is G4. That said here's
what I think.

My thinking is why spend time flying any sim unless the physics are
top notch. Doing anything less is a waste of time. Also on top of
that it's "negative training".

The FS One videos are out there to let people make their own
decisions. I know I have posted this before on RCU, but here's some
comparisons between real spins and FS One (various planes in the sim
and then real video of the same planes):

FSOne: http://www.inertiasoft.com/videos/fs1_SimulatedSpins.wmv
Real: http://www.inertiasoft.com/videos/fs1_RealSpins.wmv

Spins are the biggest challenge for any sim. Find videos of the other
sims that look as real. I've not found any and this includes going
outside R/C simulators and into commerical sims and research.

The numbers game is one thing, but it's worth making a side-by-side
comparison of planes. In FS One we don't count permutations as
separate airplanes. Also, we don't have some gimmicks like blimps and
hawks, etc. We include airplanes that are very popular - a lot from
Hangar 9 and E-flite that are on the market today. We do have a
scaling wizard that will scale an airplane up or down in size and the
physics is scaled automatically. So with that there are an literally
an infinite number of airplanes in FS One. We included many scaled
variants already setup. Here's the list that we did not include in
any numbers count on the box labelling.

http://www.inertiasoft.com/fsonefaq/#Q1021-FS1

Aside from my opinion on all this (and I do think our physics are top
notch and nothing is better), here's another opinion:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=832

Michael
(FS One aero developer / airplanes ... and day job includes teaching this stuff)

Actually that's nbot true. The box and the website claim that there are 11 helicopters when in reality there are about 7 and 5 version that are identical and repeated with added training gear.

Some people will be drawn towards the physics of FSone, however the poster above seemed alot more intersted in graphics and active training modes, which G4 is IMO superior. Having free downloadable aircraft, water and night scenes to play with and more overall scenes gives the program a lot more longevity.If you bought FSone over a year ago you have pretty much the same product today. I don't the physics mimc real life on any of the sims I have tried, they are all just different interpretations. Physics are obviously important but it seems like every company claims theirs are the best, it is also pretty much an imessureable factor and one that is easy to fall back on when the other stats all seem to fall behind.

One thing I can say, the water physics in G4 are infinatley better than FSone!

Obviously everyone has their own opinion and I imgaine most people contributing to this thread obviously have an affinity towards FSone, especially those that work for Hangar 9.

(in reply to MSelig)

Post #: 1482

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 6:34:29 PM

MSelig

Posts: 282
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: , IL, USA
Status: offline

BGM:

What I said above was true (what you highlighted in the quote).

I said "airplanes", which means wings and sometimes propellers
attached to them. I was talking about airplanes. I did not say
"helis". I also did not say "aircraft", which includes airplanes and
helis.

By the way, the numbers you're using for FS One are your own! On the
box we just say "over 30 airplanes and helis". Count them however you
like. The same counting thing applies to the Hangar Pack. We have
"10 aircraft", but there are different setups on some (PTS).

Everyone who reads this thread knows that I'm the airplane guy. I'm
not so tuned into helis, so I don't post on that topic.

And "yes" I have my opinion. That "opinion" has been pretty fine
tuned. I've been flying airplanes for a very very long time. That's
what got me into aerodynamics, and I'm still learning new stuff.

I'll let you know that the testers behind FS One are good to about
3%. What am I talking about? I can make tweaks on the order of 3%
and the pilots will notice the difference. That's how close we get to
a lot of the parameters/physics in FS One.

Michael

< Message edited by MSelig -- 1/30/2008 7:24:05 PM >

_____________________________

FS One
FAQs: www.inertiasoft.com/fsonefaq, VIDEO PARKING SPACE: www.inertiasoft.com/videos

(in reply to Big Green Machine)

Post #: 1483

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/29/2008 10:43:24 PM

gtazzed1

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/14/2008
From: belfast, ME, USA
Status: offline

I own fsone and luv it if you watched the two vids it was actually hard to tell the real edge from the fsone version cudos to the fsone plane guy!!!

_____________________________

Heli flying during the week Lead guitarist during the weekend!!

(in reply to MSelig)

Post #: 1484

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/30/2008 12:24:06 AM

Big Green Machine

Posts: 778
Joined: 1/2/2007
From: Victoria, BC, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MSelig

The FS One videos are out there to let people make their own
decisions. I know I have posted this before on RCU, but here's some
comparisons between real spins and FS One (various planes in the sim
and then real video of the same planes):

FSOne: http://www.inertiasoft.com/videos/fs1_SimulatedSpins.wmv
Real: http://www.inertiasoft.com/videos/fs1_RealSpins.wmv

Spins are the biggest challenge for any sim. Find videos of the other
sims that look as real. I've not found any and this includes going
outside R/C simulators and into commerical sims and research.

G4 spins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi3pqbCAC_I

Heres a decent one from our own RCU review of G4 http://videoserver.rcuniverse.com/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/963/g4_large.wmv

For my $200 they look pretty real.

(in reply to MSelig)

Post #: 1485

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/30/2008 3:28:40 AM

octane-link

Posts: 146
Joined: 9/24/2006
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline

Maybe someone can help me with this problem I have in FSOne.

On the F-22, I changed the prop to an APC 11x6 (what I fly with). However, it still flies like it has the 3-Blade trainer prop on it (ie bad). Any thoughts?

Also, the throttle sounds full at half throttle, and I can't figure out how to get the full range. Below half throttle its fine, but I'd like more resolution.

Thanks all!!!

_____________________________

Aerospace Engineer
UAV Builder

(in reply to Big Green Machine)

Post #: 1486

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/30/2008 3:32:56 AM

FrankFuss

Posts: 66
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Littleton, CO, USA
Status: offline

About FS One and its physics

I had been using AFPD for a while and found that the airplanes were not reacting like I would have expected while doing advanced maneuvers like stall turns. At the time, I was also using some training material available from 1st U.S. R/C Flight School, which included simulator tips, so I though that maybe they could recommend a better simulator. I sent 1st U.S. R/C Flight School an e-mail asking them if they could recommend a simulator setup that does a good job of reproducing some of the subtle flight characteristics like slipstream and P-factor, or at least accurate snaps and spins? I got a reply back from David Scott, saying “The most realistic simulator, by far, is FS One from Hanger 9.” I am no expert, so I will defer to those that are. All the major simulators have their strong points, but for me everything is secondary to the flight realism.

Frank

(in reply to johnny_G)

Post #: 1487

RE: FS One by Hangar 9 - 1/30/2008 4:32:29 AM