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Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/7/2006 11:40:10 PM   
ghost flyer


 

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I am helping some college student make a small car about 12 inches wide by 16 inches long that will be powered by a small diesel engine using "biodiesel" fuel that our research labs are developing. I need information about diesel engines. Our goal is to move the car 100 feet in about a minute. Any information or sources to determine engine size or a vendor would be appreciated.
       Post #: 1

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/8/2006 8:13:48 AM   
David Owen


 

Posts: 107
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Wollongong, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Your 'biodiesel' fuel could possibly replace the kerosene content in a model diesel engine fuel. Ether and a suitable lubricating oil will still be required.
I would suggest you purchase a small diesel such as one of the PAW 55/049/060 types and build a prop-driven vehicle. Your stated goal of 100'/ 60sec should be readily achieveable with this sort of combination.

David Owen

(in reply to ghost flyer)
       Post #: 2

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/10/2006 3:16:03 AM   
ghost flyer


 

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		what kind of ether is in the fuel and what percentages? Cator oil as a lubricant?

(in reply to David Owen)
       Post #: 3

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/10/2006 3:18:47 AM   
ghost flyer


 

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I also looked at the PAW engines, very impressive. I may e-mail them and ask them about the fuel. Why a prop intead of using a clutch and gears?

(in reply to David Owen)
       Post #: 4

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/10/2006 7:23:25 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2778
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The sort of standard fuel mix is equal parts either, kerosene, and castor oil. Easier starting with more either, more power with more kerosene, maybe get by OK with 20% oil. Your biodiesel may lubricate better than kerosene. PAW engines are available in USA from Carlson imports and Dr. Diesel. Both have websites. A prop-rod is just simpler to make than a wheel driven car.

Darn it, it is ether, not either. Poo on the spellchecker.

< Message edited by Jim Thomerson -- 5/10/2006 7:27:00 PM >

(in reply to ghost flyer)
       Post #: 5

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/11/2006 6:53:17 PM   
ghost flyer


 

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		What kind of ether is used?

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 6

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/11/2006 6:54:59 PM   
ghost flyer


 

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		Di-ethyl ether?

< Message edited by ghost flyer -- 5/11/2006 7:04:19 PM >

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 7

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/12/2006 2:31:33 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online 		Actually for his use petreleum oil may be better. Both mineral oil and castor oil has been used successfully in model diesel engines. It depends on which will mix better with the biodiesel.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 5/12/2006 2:32:51 PM >

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 8

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/12/2006 2:34:11 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online 		It is the same either used in cans of cold starting spray. You can use this for your fuel mix. I suggest going to the diesel engine forum and asking there.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 9

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/13/2006 12:19:15 AM   
lukesp



Posts: 355
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: BrisbaneQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Di-ethyl ether "technical" grade is fine.

(in reply to ghost flyer)
       Post #: 10

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/14/2006 6:22:42 AM   
ghost flyer


 

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		They talk about small diesels having problems with atomization any ideas on how to help atomize the fuel? Is there a power difference between a glow and a diesel where I need to use a larger engine?

(in reply to lukesp)
       Post #: 11

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/15/2006 1:58:11 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online 		Glow has more power, but diesel will use a larger number of props and perform well with larger props at a lower speed. Glow will not use your bio diesel engine either. Note that these are not true diesels but a normal two cycle with compression ignition. Not sure how they would run if your bio diesel fuel is meant for automobile or truck use. Likely it would be too thick and not volatile enough, just as #2 diesel fuel would. The main component of the fuel is kerosene, the ether is used so that it ignites at a lower temperature so that a more usable compression ration may be used. You may want to find a small industrial diesel engine and use that, but I don't think they make them smaller than a garden tractor size or so. And of course it would cost big bucks.

(in reply to ghost flyer)
       Post #: 12

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/16/2006 4:27:43 AM   
ghost flyer


 

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		You are correct. "Bio diesel" is meant to replace diesel fuel for tractors and trucks. I wondering though if the addition of the ether and castor oil will render it usable in the small two stroke model diesel engines (Four Stroke?). Thats why I am also worried about atomization. The rules of the national competition are to be able to have the car in pieces be able to fit in a box a little larger than a shoebox. Last year we used a tank from a paintball gun tank with a relief valve and ran the gases through a small double action toy steam engine the students found online. This coming year they want to also try and use the "Bio Diesel" fuel thats being developed and build a car but I am not knowleagable in model diesels and fuel only in two and four stroke gas and glow engines. Someone pointed me at a website where a book "all about diesels" was avaliable which I will be purchasing. I am lacking in knowledge in this area and can use all the help I can get.

Thanks for all your help. It is really helping these students and this project.

< Message edited by ghost flyer -- 5/16/2006 4:29:54 AM >

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 13

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/16/2006 12:55:02 PM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10426
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Ghost, you can purchase an ether, ignition enhancer and castor package from RedMax and add the fuel of your choice. I experimented with SoyBean Oil but could not get a good mix so that I could have a good idle and a good top end. I could get one or the other but not both on the same mix. I'm convinced that a little more experimenting and I can get it. Tell him what you are doing and he may custom blend something for you.

_____________________________

"I have gone faster backwards, upside down and on fire than most people have gone at all" Don Garlits

(in reply to ghost flyer)
       Post #: 14

RE: Diesel Engine Information HELP - 5/16/2006 1:57:28 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7451
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online 		I wonder if corn oil, sunflower, or canola oil would be thinner? Less calories though, I assume that means less BTU as well.

(in reply to Hobbsy)
       Post #: 15