RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant...  
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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 2:38:01 AM   
5487


 

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From: Houston, TX, USA
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quote:

Besides, this conversation is un-winnable by anyone. It should have never been started in the first place.

Yep, you're right, Bruce. It IS un-winable. We all forgot that the original poster was simply asking why people overpower their planes and the masses, me included, immediately took sides and started arguing our points; completely forgetting that the original question was "Why?" and not "Which is better?" So, for all of those who I might have offended by coming out with my guns blazing, I appologize.

However, I have to disagree when you say that the question should never have been asked in the first place. After all, if it wasn't asked, you and I would have never discovered how we each see our hobby. I must say that it's been an interesting discussion!

quote:

Why don't we all just go to the field, have a good time doing our thing, enjoy each others company and B/S, and leave the rest of em alone? As long as it is safe.

I think we all can agree to this.

(in reply to aa2dd)
       Post #: 176

RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 3:22:43 AM   
pilot727


 

Posts: 680
Joined: 6/16/2006
From: Clearfield, UT, USA
Status: offline 		beside's we are all aldult's here and should be able to discuss any subject without getting upset with one another, i to am sorry if i was out of line guy's

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 3:41:11 AM   
aa2dd


 

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From: Frostproof, FL, USA
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awwww ..... shucks ........... no need for anyone to apologize for anything. the main thing is we all have lots of fun & an open discussion., We all have our notion of what's fun. diff strokes for diff folks. My only complaint is that i can't fly as well as i would like to. I would like to be able to show up Mr Sominizini (S) (sorry)!!! but I guess i'll just have to live with the knowledge that it just hain't gonna happen in this life time! & BUT ........ I have old age for an excuse!!!! hehehehe ........All I can say is everyone have a blast flying and chirping on RCU.

Bruce

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 4:50:11 AM   
HighPlains


 

Posts: 2667
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Over da rainbow, KS, USA
Status: offline 		I like both extremes. Sport RC models are more manoverable the closer to stall speed you fly. Flying on the wing, and having to use energy management add to pilot skill.

However, what many think are overpowered models are really pretty tame. When you have a power to weight ratio of about 1.5 lbs/hp, you end up with ballistic performance.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 5:17:59 AM   
MrOsprey


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/23/2007
From: Peterborough, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		well, I just bought my first four stroke and its gonna over power the plane for sure....and I luv it, although my extra is made out of ply and NOT balsa. Cant wait for the maiden!

(in reply to wildnloose)
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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 5:41:20 AM   
pilot727


 

Posts: 680
Joined: 6/16/2006
From: Clearfield, UT, USA
Status: offline 		What kind and size of engine and plane.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 5:45:31 AM   
pilot727


 

Posts: 680
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From: Clearfield, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Bruce
I am disabled and do not work so when i do get the chance to fly i have the field to myself and my friend as we go out into the heat of the afternoon and trust me we are the oly two there until later it cools down some.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 5:59:54 AM   
TimC



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From: Lone Pine, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 5487

But why do you need extra power for a "security blanket"? I've got over 700 hours in a full scale 65hp Luscombe and have never found myself in a position where I needed gobs of extra power (which I didn't have anyway) to get myself out of a predicament. Luck? Nope, it's called SKILL!!! Skill to keep from getting into one of those predicaments. (And for the uninitiated, a 65hp Luscombe is only barely capable of pulling itself out of its own smokescreen. )

So your saying if someone offered you a free 130hp engine that would drop right in and not use any more fuel, you would say "no thanks"?

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 11:54:40 AM   
5487


 

Posts: 265
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I wouldn't take it. The Luscombe is a nice little two-place airplane that does very well what it was designed to do - and high speed is not it. If I wanted something faster and racier, I would step up to a Cessna 170 or 180 but not repower the Luscombe. In my mind, a larger engine would spoil the charm of the Luscombe.

You see, I believe that planes (big and small) are all purposefully designed. If you want to spend a Saturday afternoon skimming the treetops and doing touch and goes, you do it in a Cub. However, if blistering speed is what you're after, it doesn't make sense to me to repower the Cub when a Mustang would do a much better job going fast. (Assuming that I had gobs of extra money! )

Purpose built.

(in reply to TimC)
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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 12:37:09 PM   
MrOsprey


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/23/2007
From: Peterborough, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I am 35 years of age, so not the only adult here...lol........but nehow, I just bought a Saito125A and installed it into my Carl Goldberg Extra 300. I have put a couple tanks of fuel through it on a stand, but mounted it into the plane this morning. I am gonna run a little more fuel through it.......5 turns out...that otta be rich enough I would imagine lmfao.


(in reply to pilot727)
       Post #: 185

RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 5:16:44 PM   
jrf


 

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From: Burbank, CA, USA
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quote:

I wouldn't take it. The Luscombe is a nice little two-place airplane that does very well what it was designed to do - and high speed is not it. If I wanted something faster and racier, I would step up to a Cessna 170 or 180 but not repower the Luscombe. In my mind, a larger engine would spoil the charm of the Luscombe.

You see, I believe that planes (big and small) are all purposefully designed. If you want to spend a Saturday afternoon skimming the treetops and doing touch and goes, you do it in a Cub. However, if blistering speed is what you're after, it doesn't make sense to me to repower the Cub when a Mustang would do a much better job going fast. (Assuming that I had gobs of extra money! )


You, and many of the other posters here seem to equate more power with more speed. In models at least, that is not usually the case. Most of the "grossly overpowered" models you take exception to are actually quite slow. 3D models in particular typically have a top speed of around 50 mph. The primary reason for overpowering a model is for better accelleration and vertical penetration, and a more constant speed through maneuvers. The fact that these characteristics also provide the ability to change the airplanes attitude and direction from impending crash to safety in the blink of an eye is a happy coincidence. It is also the main reason that non-3D flyers find "overpowered" models to be safer and, oh no, here it comes... easier to fly.

Overpowering an airplane for more speed can be dangerous of course, but overpowering an airplane, using a low pitch prop for more thrust and using rational throttle control can make it a better airplane in every way.

That theoretical 130 hp Luscombe, given no significant weight increase and propped for the same top speed would make the airplane much safer with a full load on a high density altitude day and give it short field capabilities it doesn't have now. If Luscombe could have done it at the same weight, for the same price, he would have.


Jim


< Message edited by jrf -- 5/23/2007 5:20:10 PM >

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 11:27:58 PM   
busted2props


 

Posts: 175
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: tyler, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The reality is, is the person flying as a reasonable man-(person)? Can they handle the aircraft? I have seen guys with little fomies fly behind the barricades..and been the victim of that. What about that, and power? what power? There are those that just try and try but just can't fly. I don't care how long they have been trying and what model thay have, just can't do it! This subject has split many clubs. What i consider as safe, you may not. But also on the other end, what if. You cannot live your life on what "IFS". What if you start to cross the street and get hit by a bus? See how silly that sounds. But could happen?! This hobby has it dangers....props, inexperienced pilots, the first 3D pilot, and on and on. To watch my Super Sportster .60 with O.S. Max .61 FSR fly, you would say it is overpowered. Fast as .... Throttle management is the key to any application!

< Message edited by busted2props -- 5/23/2007 11:38:25 PM >

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/23/2007 11:56:38 PM   
5487


 

Posts: 265
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Jim,

Of those who are for overpowering in this thread, most can be grouped into three reasons for doing so:
1. For improved aerobatics
2. "Because I can!"
3. To have power in reserve for getting out of a bad situation

Reason number 1 is understandable. After all, Sean Tucker and Patty Wagstaff don't fly their routines in 65hp Luscombes.

Reason number 2 was obviously an attitude thing and the posters are probably the same guys on the Houston freeways who know only one accelerator position for their Ford Mustangs.

But reason number 3 is the one that I don't understand (and it is probably the most numerous reason given in this thread for overpowering models.) While I can surely understand the logic of having horsepower in reserve for getting oneself out of a predicament, I don't understand how someone would get into one in the first place. As a full scale pilot, I have never gotten myself into a bad situation where raw horsepower was needed to save me and my plane; not once in my 2800 hours of flying.

And that's what I see as the primary difference between model pilots and full scale pilots. There is little arguement that flying both takes skills that are not easily mastered and both pilots are rightfully proud when they finally do. But it's the "crash attitude" that is different between the two. Model pilots crash their planes, more often during training and less often after awhile, but nonetheless, crashes are expected and accepted. On the other hand, full scale pilots make crash avoidance our primary goal and most of us go our entire lives without a single incident, much less a major crunch. So we do our best to avoid getting ourselves into a bad predicament in the first place. Therefore, we don't feel a need to have a lot of horsepower in reserve. And we carry this philosophy into our model flying as well. (Or at least I do.)

And while I'm on my soapbox...
3D is just wierd! Real planes don't do it (and yes, I am aware of some experimental military planes in the 1950s.) And I also think that it's unnatural to watch a model B-29 do loops! And those darned guys in their Mustangs out on the freeway...

< Message edited by 5487 -- 5/23/2007 11:59:07 PM >

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/24/2007 12:16:32 AM   
skull1971



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Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Willis, TX, USA
Status: online 		Nope I'm the guy in the dodge with a cummins the sets the cruise control on 2mph above the limit, that won't let you by me in your BMW. Oh and before you blast my cummins too, it a diesel because of my job I get all the FREE fuel I want.

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