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Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/7/2006 11:40:47 PM   
dmrcflyr2


 

Posts: 73
Joined: 9/24/2002
From: Largo, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I have been building and flying for over 17 years. One rc buddy advised me in my early days to always put the largest engine size RECOMMENDED by the specifications of the manufacturer. I followed this advice, sometimes. Oftentimes I would elect the mid-range of the engine recommendation by the fact that I had the engine to do this. Once I accumlated enough engines and had a better variety I would opt for the upper range.

Never have I powered an airplane as ludicrously as I have read in some of the posts on this forum. Folks putting 90 or 100 sized engines on 60 sized planes irregardless of the wing loading affect. Some one just suggested putting a .75 2 stroke on a very LIGHT 40 sized Uproar?!?!?!? What are these folks thinking?

I have never designed an rc airplane, I have, however built and flown quite a few. NEVER once did I ever think one of my planes was underpowered when using the largest engine recommended by the manufacturer/designer.

Perhaps one reason for this insanity is the 3D craze. For planes to perform these manuevers excessive power is needed, however that should not translate over into sport aircraft. Why put .100 or .120's on a Hog Bipe? It flies beautifully on a 80-90 4-stroke. If you want to 'hang an airplane on its prop', get a plane specifically designed for this, OR fly a helicopter. If hovering is your thing move on to helis. Airplanes are designed for straight flight not hovering.

Or perhaps the folks that believe an airplane is 'underpowered' when using the recommended size engine really do not have the skills to fly that plane. Aircraft designers know what they are talking about especially when it comes to kits from SIG, Great Planes, BTE, etc. Folks that REALLY know how to design an aircraft not just some 'copy cat' company making planes and sticking labels on them.

This forum is a wonderful thing. there are lots of great tips, tricks, knowledge, etc. But along with that there are alot of crazy, irresponsible, and plain stupid things here too. I just hope that the newcomer to the hobby has the support of local hobbiyists to help them in their decisions, because if they were to 'carte blanche' take some of the advice here, they may have a short career in the hobby.

David
AMA 336517

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 12:16:53 AM   
tuwood



Posts: 840
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		Well, i'm relatively new to this hobby and have properly powered a couple planes and have overpowered a couple. The reasons really depended on how I planned to fly the plane.

On my 3D capable planes, I want absolutely all the power I can get because quite simply power equals get out of trouble. I rarely fly above half throttle for anything other than getting out of trouble or the ballistic straight up runs which are just too cool to watch.

If you look at full scale aerobatics, they are doing everything they can to add more power to their planes, but the power to weight ratio just isn't as good as it is for us. If Sean tucker could add 50% more power to his Oracle Challenger with little extra weight I guarantee you he would do it.

I think it's also somewhat analagous to other hobbies we like. Why do people put 500HP engines in cars? Absolutely no need for it, but it sure does make em fast.



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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 12:28:50 AM   
dmrcflyr2


 

Posts: 73
Joined: 9/24/2002
From: Largo, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I understand completely. But what about the potential ramifications of such a thing in this hobby? A perfect example of what I am talking about is the thread on the Hangar 9 Corsair and its tendency to have the firewall separate from the fuse. This is a cookie cutter plane with cut-n-paste specifications with a .100 added to the top end. Yes, it is a beautiful aircraft at a great price, I will probably own one. But putting a .100-150 on this is just asking for trouble. Sure you need to reinforce the firewall, because the folks that produce these kits DON'T fly them, and have no real knowledge about them other than 'make these and we pay you'.

Does it take someone getting hurt or worse before anyone will really change their thinking? It is simlar to the younger folks getting the 180 mph sport bikes. Inexperienced pilot just pouring money into their first few planes overpowering them is a recipe for diaster.

What if that .120 powered 4-stroke was suddenly heading your direction faster than you can move?

David
AMA 336517

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 12:35:28 AM   
tuwood



Posts: 840
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I absolutely agree with you when it comes to overpowering to increase speed. The airframes are not strong enough to handle the increased loads and could cause a serious safety issue.

I know if I flew my 3D profile full throttle level it would come apart at the seams!

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 12:39:02 AM   
Stripes


 

Posts: 638
Joined: 5/17/2003
From: Orchard Park, New York
Status: online 		Hey Dave,
Plug your word "irregardless" in Google and see what you get.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 12:54:11 AM   
piper_chuck



Posts: 7896
Joined: 6/13/2004
From: Pittsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I typically don't overpower planes, but I know many who do. Perhaps one reason they do it is because they can! For most things, we're stuck with little choice. The gas prices have most people reconsidering high power cars. The 180 mph crotch rockets you spoke of are beyond what most people would ever consider trying (but they are fun! ). So, those of us who fly planes have an outlet that we don't get in the rest of our lives. Anyway, just a thought. I need to head out to the shop now to see if I can somehow mate my NIB Tower .75 to an Uproar. Thanks for the idea!

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 1:51:38 AM   
HighPlains


 

Posts: 2639
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Over da rainbow, KS, USA
Status: offline
quote:

If Sean tucker could add 50% more power to his Oracle Challenger with little extra weight I guarantee you he would do it.


That would be after he gets it dug out of the smoking hole it crashed in last month.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 3:02:23 AM   
Ilikebipes



Posts: 445
Joined: 8/7/2003
From: Columbia Heights, MN, USA
Status: offline
Most .60 sized airplanes I've ever seen are rated for.90 sized two strokes.

When I can put a 1.00 sized four stroke in a .90 sized peg, have it weigh less than the .90, and not only have more power, but a much better power to weight ratio, why not do it? The throttle does not need to be pushed wide open. Some of us like the fact that we have that reserve for whatever reason.

I kinda' relate this question to forcing our kids to wear helmets, kneepads, elbow pads,etc.,etc., etc., just to ride there bikes, or scooters. I mean come on, we can't keep accidents from happening all the time. In the real world, people get hurt, people scuff up their knees. With todays protection mentality, it's a wonder anyone survived childhood!!

People need to use common sence when operating any kind of vehicle. If the bigger powerplants are too much for you, by all means, stay away from them. I don't look down at poeple for operating in their comfort zone. That is a good thing. But without pushing some boundaries, we would never have made it to the moon!

This is not a personal attack, but please, don't legislate my choices away, especially when I do not operate my aircraft in a mannor that violates the law, club rules, or AMA requirements.

I don't like pylon racing. Quite frankly, I think it is dangerous. However, I would fight for pylon racers to keep their right to race, because my experience shows me, in spite of dangerous crashes, and people getting hurt, they have always followed the rules, and are generally concerned for spectators and the surroundings, and are enjoying themselves in the process. This can apply to every aspect of the hobby. Why let a few bad apples destroy having a life? Why let fear destroy one's ability to push the boundaries safely as possible, maybe get hurt in the process, learn, and continue to make America the greatest nation on Earth?

I realise I got a tad bit irritated at this subject,, but come on, give me a break! Please don't let fear rule you, and keep us from a life.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 3:05:56 AM   
SamD


 

Posts: 159
Joined: 6/5/2002
From: seattle, WA, USA
Status: offline 		The safety aspect is tricky; I'd don't care to have any plane coming at me (and there have been a couple). That said, an inexperienced flier can probably get themselves in trouble, quicker, with a higher powered plane- I think most of us could agree with that. Unfortunately, as noted, overpowering planes seems to be quite the "rage" these days- while little to no discussion regarding the negative aspects of this seem to be taking place.

The really salient point- I think- is the negative effect(s) putting an oversize engine on a given airframe has; higher wing loading, more vibration (typically), over stressing of the airframe, etc, etc. Make no mistake, I've a few airplanes that are on the upper limit as far as engine size goes but nothing like putting a .100 size engine on a .40-.50 size airframe. It's fun to have a plane or two that pushes the envelope a bit- but it's not something I want to make a habit of.

I've no problem with the current 3D craze and all the stuff that goes along with it; it's not for me (at least not a steady diet) but it's really popular and a lot of people have gotten into the hobby because of it. Like most things, though, interests will change and perhaps in a few years the 3D craze and the overpowering of models will abate somewhat.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 9:37:04 PM   
red head


 

Posts: 1206
Joined: 2/4/2005
From: Zephyrhills, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I read a lot of these post and the people can't even fix a simple ding / break and they are trying to re engineer the plane !!! I've even gotten to the point that I won't answer some questions. Gad, you'd think they could at least tie their shoes. ENJOY !!! RED

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 10:56:46 PM   
nickj


 

Posts: 497
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Danville, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with David, and I don't think he's looking for any new rules. If someone wants to put a .90 2-stroke in a 40-sized trainer, then go for it. I'm not even that concerned about the safety aspect. Any plane is dangerous in the wrong hands. But some of these planes I see, they look like they could fly without the wings. I think you cheat yourself out of some good flying with an over-powered plane, but that's just me.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/8/2006 11:42:44 PM   
Airbike


 

Posts: 599
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Walnut, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I saw a .25 sized warbird that HAD a YS .91 4-stroke in it. WOW, it WAS fast, at least until the motor flew off and went another 100 yards father than the rest of the plane!!


Having enough power is good.
Having more power is better.
Having too much power is just about right!

But seriously, a lot depends on the application. A WWI plane or Piper Cub just wouldn't seem right to be grossly overpowered. A little extra for getting out of stall situations is good, but not to be overdone.

Speed planes will take as much power as you can fit into them. Along with that comes the need for appropriate reinforcing of the airframe.

Throttle is also a proportional channel! I think too many have learned to fly without really learning how to use throttle and rudder.

As for hovering & 3D power, actually it will take more power to fly the advanced/unlimited IMAC sequences than it does for 3D. Also suprisingly, having a lot of power available can allow you to fly slower as you don't have to trade momentum for vertical climb. You can simply add power as needed to continue your upline after an energy draining manuever.


So it really does depend on the situation and how the pilot intends to fly the plane. To me, "overpowering a plane" is when you cannot manage the power for your intended application. Of more concern should be the wingloading. If you can add the power without gaining weight by using a very lightweight engine, then I don't see much downside to that.

Again, I'm assuming competent pilots with some throttle management skills.

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RE: Why overpower airplanes? A rant... - 5/9/2006 12:00:59 AM   
dmrcflyr2


 

Posts: 73
Joined: 9/24/2002
From: Largo, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Excellent responses to all except 'Stripes', he is too perfect for me and contributed nothing.

The only reason I started this thread was to get something going in the Sport Flying forum. I also wanted to see how many people looked into this forum. It seems there could be a lot more discussions here.

Sure I was venting and it is interesting to see all of the responses. I am a typical modeler, VERY opinionated. Have you ever met one that was not?

I really think rcuniverse is a wonderful place. We can share our ideas, misfortunes, good deals, etc. Heck I have scored some great deals on engines here in the last 2 months.

Fly on....

David
AMA 336517


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