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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Century - Predator, Hawk IV, Falcon, Raven >> Gasoline-powered helis
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Gasoline-powered helis - 5/9/2006 12:09:11 AM   
brunobl



Posts: 211
Joined: 10/27/2005
From: Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL
Status: offline 		Hi,

I am considering getting into gas-powered helis (looking at the Predator Gasser). Being a total newbie in gas-powered models, I wonder how they compare to glow engines in terms of ease of operation. Are they easier/more difficult to start? When hot? When cold? Are they more/less touchy to tune? Do they all have a pull-start mechanism or is it possible to attach an electric starter (as in glow engines)? Is the ignition system a source of radio interference? Does it need its own battery (yet another batt to keep charged...)?

I currently fly a Raptor 50 and I am considering the change driven by fuel economy. Gasoline is a lot cheaper than glow fuel, but is this the wrong reason for considering the gassers? I am not into aerobatics (maybe a mild stall turn every other flight) so not being 3D-capable, or not having the P/W ratio of a .90 is absolutely not an issue for me (being able to carry a still camera would be great though).

What has been your experience, in general, with gasoline-powered helis? Are they worth it?

Am I in for an unpleasant surprise if I have high expectations for economical gasoline-powered RC heli flying (assuming, of course, no unplanned encounters with terra firma)?

Sorry for so many questions, I am looking for all the info I can get before committing.
All info is most welcome.

_____________________________

Best regards,
Bruno.
       Post #: 1

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 5/9/2006 6:25:09 PM   
DebianDog



Posts: 1376
Joined: 12/26/2004
From: Chester, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Are they easier/more difficult to start?
Easier

When hot? When cold?
Easier. Honestly... if my Condor does not start 3rd or 4th pull I start looking for other problems. I swear this is the procedure that works 99% of the time.
- Push fuel bulb till return line is full of fuel
- FULL choke
- ONE pull and only (1) pull
- Choke off
- Pull and it will start or almost start
- Pull and it starts

Are they more/less touchy to tune?

They are VERY touchy to GET tuned but once tuned (and broken in) you NEVER have to screw with them again... unless you seriouly change elevation. Like my buddy said, "How many times do you retune your weedeater once you have it running right?" Once my engine finally broke in, after about 2 gallons, it has been running like an electric with an endless battery!

Do they all have a pull-start mechanism or is it possible to attach an electric starter (as in glow engines)?
You can run a starter shaft with the smaller 231 motor but not suggested with a 231 moddifed or 260. The pull start is designed to be removed after starting.

Is the ignition system a source of radio interference? No

Does it need its own battery (yet another batt to keep charged...)?
No it runs just EXACTLY like a weedeater. Actually it is a weed-eater motor. It has just been moddified a bit to run in a helicopter.

If you DOUBT a gassers 3D ability watch this video. He runs 2 oz Amsoil to a gallon now that it is broken in.

_____________________________

Predator 90 w/ YS90 + Raptor 60V2 w/YS62
Condor Gasser w/G26 + TREX 600 on 6S + Ion X on 10S

(in reply to brunobl)
       Post #: 2

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 5/9/2006 6:39:39 PM   
DebianDog



Posts: 1376
Joined: 12/26/2004
From: Chester, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Oh also here is a video I made when I did have it tuned along with some tuning advice.

Once it finished breaking in I had to lean it out a hair. The "Gasser Master" (Bill Meador) suggested that if I move the high end needle 1/8 of a turn you move the low end needle half as much (or a 1/16). Bill Meador was the first person, I know of, to get a gas helicopter flying right... years and years ago.


_____________________________

Predator 90 w/ YS90 + Raptor 60V2 w/YS62
Condor Gasser w/G26 + TREX 600 on 6S + Ion X on 10S

(in reply to DebianDog)
       Post #: 3

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 5/10/2006 9:02:28 AM   
Gorgok


 

Posts: 332
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: Cypress, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Arr. Why not continue that very informative vid? I wanna see how it works with the governor and stuff!

Also, isnt that a low headspeed? Or do that big birds fly with low headspeeds?

(in reply to DebianDog)
       Post #: 4

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 5/10/2006 1:05:17 PM   
brunobl



Posts: 211
Joined: 10/27/2005
From: Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL
Status: offline 		First.. after seeing that first video, I've got to take back the "not being 3D capable" bit from my post. That was some impressive footage and pretty much settles a gasser's aerobatic capability, despite myths stating otherwise. Thanks for educating me with hard evidence!

Thanks also for your very informative post. It is good to be able to get first-hand information from someone who has hands-on experience. I can only imagine that when the time comes I will come back with more questions (I already have a first one... you mentioned a turn-relation between high and low speed needles... I take it that they would both be turned in the same direction, i.e. enrich both and/or lean both, at the respective rates?

And, the second video is definately a keeper. Should be saved for future reference, has tons of useful information.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to get all those answers and providing the video links. I truly appreciate it.

Oh, and I see that was your own video production/editing. Very well done! You might want to put out some educational DVDs some time, RC hobbysts would certainly bennefit from them!

Best wishes.

_____________________________

Best regards,
Bruno.

(in reply to DebianDog)
       Post #: 5

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 5/10/2006 7:54:07 PM   
DebianDog



Posts: 1376
Joined: 12/26/2004
From: Chester, VA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gorgok

Arr. Why not continue that very informative vid? I wanna see how it works with the governor and stuff!

Also, isnt that a low headspeed? Or do that big birds fly with low headspeeds?


That is a Camera ship and is swinging 830mm blades (tons of lift) so you want as low of headspeed as you can get away with. Normal headspeed for a 3D ship is above 1700.

_____________________________

Predator 90 w/ YS90 + Raptor 60V2 w/YS62
Condor Gasser w/G26 + TREX 600 on 6S + Ion X on 10S

(in reply to Gorgok)
       Post #: 6

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 5/10/2006 7:55:50 PM   
DebianDog



Posts: 1376
Joined: 12/26/2004
From: Chester, VA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brunoblI already have a first one... you mentioned a turn-relation between high and low speed needles... I take it that they would both be turned in the same direction, i.e. enrich both and/or lean both, at the respective rates?

You might want to put out some educational DVDs some time, RC hobbysts would certainly bennefit from them!


Yes

We are discussing it as it has generated a tad bit of interest.

_____________________________

Predator 90 w/ YS90 + Raptor 60V2 w/YS62
Condor Gasser w/G26 + TREX 600 on 6S + Ion X on 10S

(in reply to brunobl)
       Post #: 7

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 7/4/2006 1:29:52 PM   
zorka


 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/31/2003
From: Panama,
Status: offline 		Hi I am considering buolding one of these birds. I flew Trex for months some 3d and moved up to Hyper raptor Titan. Considering a Predator Gasser with the Zenoah engine.
What kind of investment is in one of these nirds with adecuate servos, gyros rx etc. except the radio transmitter?

Thx

(in reply to DebianDog)
       Post #: 8

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 7/5/2006 2:05:55 AM   
DebianDog



Posts: 1376
Joined: 12/26/2004
From: Chester, VA, USA
Status: offline 		$2000 for the heli with blades
+Rx
+Gyro
+Servos
Call it $2500

$3 a gallon for fuel

_____________________________

Predator 90 w/ YS90 + Raptor 60V2 w/YS62
Condor Gasser w/G26 + TREX 600 on 6S + Ion X on 10S

(in reply to zorka)
       Post #: 9

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 7/19/2006 2:50:56 AM   
N11634



Posts: 88
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Wisconsin Rapids, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I got into a Predator Gasser for around $1700+ or - with the kit and electronics. I already had my own radio. I LOVE IT!!!! EVERYONE at your club will be envious. It gathers an audience every time I fly it. They love the smell of the Coleman fuel I run it it, too. Surprised noone mentioned that. It smell like you're grilling out. and it lots cleaner.

I do wish I'd have gotten the 26 instead of the 23, but I was told the 23 is smoother and I bought it for a camera platform but I'm having a hard time settling down and building the mount for it. It's too fun to fly aerobatics with!

Kit w/G23 - $995
V2 Torpedo Muffler (a must) - $125
Collective Servos - $206 (9252's X 3)
Gyro/tail servo - $189 (401 w/9254)
Carbon Mains & Tail - $100
Receiver - $100
and misc. parts and stuff to finish it.



_____________________________

Aviation has a perfect record, we've never left one up there.

(in reply to DebianDog)
       Post #: 10

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 7/19/2006 3:32:02 PM   
BarracudaHockey



Posts: 10577
Joined: 7/13/2003
From: Orange Park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Nice looking Raptor.

_____________________________

Andy - Helicopter Forum Moderator
AMA 77227 http://www.jaxrc.com

(in reply to N11634)
       Post #: 11

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 7/19/2006 3:52:39 PM   
DebianDog



Posts: 1376
Joined: 12/26/2004
From: Chester, VA, USA
Status: offline 		CONGRATS!

_____________________________

Predator 90 w/ YS90 + Raptor 60V2 w/YS62
Condor Gasser w/G26 + TREX 600 on 6S + Ion X on 10S

(in reply to BarracudaHockey)
       Post #: 12

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 7/19/2006 8:32:50 PM   
N11634



Posts: 88
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Wisconsin Rapids, WI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barracudahockey

Nice looking Raptor.


Thanks, getting tired of painting it every winter, though. Even with clear coat, by the end of the summer it looks like crap and it's time to strip and paint it again. Debating on going with just vynil graphics.

_____________________________

Aviation has a perfect record, we've never left one up there.

(in reply to BarracudaHockey)
       Post #: 13

RE: Gasoline-powered helis - 7/19/2006 8:55:52 PM   
BarracudaHockey



Posts: 10577
Joined: 7/13/2003
From: Orange Park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Yep thats what I did. The hirobo holds