Two died in rc airshow.
05-13-2006, 05:09 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Andřya, NORWAY
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two died in rc airshow.
This is from a Swedish news paper. http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...825185,00.html
It says that two people died in a airshow in Ocseny, Hungary.
It was 2,5 meter rc airplane. The pilot lost control and the airplane fell down in the crowd.
Four people was injured, and two died.
It says that two people died in a airshow in Ocseny, Hungary.
It was 2,5 meter rc airplane. The pilot lost control and the airplane fell down in the crowd.
Four people was injured, and two died.
05-14-2006, 02:52 AM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Andřya, NORWAY
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
I found it i english. http://english.mti.hu/default.asp?me...&newsid=219887
It is the same that is in the Swedish news paper, and thats all i know.
It is the same that is in the Swedish news paper, and thats all i know.
05-14-2006, 11:22 AM
#6
Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eskilstuna, SWEDEN
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
Came across a video too.
[link=http://stream.tv2video.hu/asxgen/tv2/video/tenyek/tenyek_0513_low.wmv]http://stream.tv2video.hu/asxgen/tv2/video/tenyek/tenyek_0513_low.wmv[/link]
It seems to be from local TV in Hungary. The part on the crash starts some 2 minutes and 20-30 seconds into the programme.
Damn, indeed... [
]
[link=http://stream.tv2video.hu/asxgen/tv2/video/tenyek/tenyek_0513_low.wmv]http://stream.tv2video.hu/asxgen/tv2/video/tenyek/tenyek_0513_low.wmv[/link]
It seems to be from local TV in Hungary. The part on the crash starts some 2 minutes and 20-30 seconds into the programme.
Damn, indeed... [
]
05-14-2006, 01:39 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: R�pcelak,Mansfield ,
TX, HUNGARY
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
Since then ,the pilot a former world champ is under arrest,but I'dont now why.It's obvious for a modeler, that was an rf.problem.
If you watch the video, you can see, that the plane was uncontrollable in the very last seconds.In my opinion somebody turned on his radio on the same frequenzi during the show.
Georgee
If you watch the video, you can see, that the plane was uncontrollable in the very last seconds.In my opinion somebody turned on his radio on the same frequenzi during the show.
Georgee
05-14-2006, 02:19 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: zonhoven, BELGIUM
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
In my opinion the plane flew too close to the spectators. So the organizers of the event are also to blame.
But the a world-champ pilot must now you must remain a safe distance, certainly when there are spectators in the area.
But the a world-champ pilot must now you must remain a safe distance, certainly when there are spectators in the area.
05-14-2006, 03:30 PM
#11
Junior Member
![Gabek_[HUN]'s Avatar](https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/avatars/256457.gif?dateline=1375463486)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pecs, HUNGARY
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
Hi to all!
I'am Hungarian, and I also fly R/C models.
I learned this hobby in the US, and when I got home, I was like: Jesus....
In here, No rules, no real modell airports.... What can I say....
A good example: Keaping metil alcohol at home, is aginst the law in here, just think about te rest....
One thing else, I nead to say: In my country, very few people can aford to fly R/C planes, actualy In my city there is about 10 pilot (4 is active.......)
(My city is one of the bigests in hungary.....)
Where the accident happen? In a real airport.... I'am quite sure, that it was not the pilots fault.... Not even the radio.
I think someone switced on hes transmitter....
But Let us not to found anyone guilty before the offical procedure finishes.
The pilot is formaly under arested. Right now.... I wonder, what does he feals right now....
Deaply all model pilots are sceared of a situation like this.... Mee to....
When I fly I keap the AMA rules... I'am not the onleyone...
Bout the situation in here is undescribeable....
If I hear any news, I let U know...
THX for listening
Gábor Zoltán
I'am Hungarian, and I also fly R/C models.
I learned this hobby in the US, and when I got home, I was like: Jesus....
In here, No rules, no real modell airports.... What can I say....
A good example: Keaping metil alcohol at home, is aginst the law in here, just think about te rest....
One thing else, I nead to say: In my country, very few people can aford to fly R/C planes, actualy In my city there is about 10 pilot (4 is active.......)
(My city is one of the bigests in hungary.....)
Where the accident happen? In a real airport.... I'am quite sure, that it was not the pilots fault.... Not even the radio.
I think someone switced on hes transmitter....
But Let us not to found anyone guilty before the offical procedure finishes.
The pilot is formaly under arested. Right now.... I wonder, what does he feals right now....
Deaply all model pilots are sceared of a situation like this.... Mee to....
When I fly I keap the AMA rules... I'am not the onleyone...
Bout the situation in here is undescribeable....
If I hear any news, I let U know...
THX for listening
Gábor Zoltán
05-14-2006, 03:32 PM
#12
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pecs, HUNGARY
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-14-2006, 09:46 PM
#13
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Perth WA, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
That is very sad news.
Sadly it will not do any good for the reputation of our wonderful sport, one of our peers has been arrested and will quite possibly be charged with manslaughter or the like, and of corse the loss of life/injuries of the spectators.
In the end some one is to blame, or will be blamed but the fact of the matter is that it is still all very sad.
May the out-come of this be that the possibility of this happening again be well diminished.
My condolences to all involved.[&o]
Brad
Sadly it will not do any good for the reputation of our wonderful sport, one of our peers has been arrested and will quite possibly be charged with manslaughter or the like, and of corse the loss of life/injuries of the spectators.
In the end some one is to blame, or will be blamed but the fact of the matter is that it is still all very sad.
May the out-come of this be that the possibility of this happening again be well diminished.
My condolences to all involved.[&o]
Brad
05-15-2006, 07:57 AM
#14
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pecs, HUNGARY
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
This pilot was a very experienced one.
He is a testpilot of an engine factory, and has hes own modell aircraft factory too!
This is hes job, this is what he do for living....
It could be that a life is ruined....
He says, that he will newer hold a transmitter in hes hand again. (Whoevers fault was this....)
I recived this information from a friend, who knows him. (kind of secound hand...)
Another thing:
Some hungarians say that I try to give my countrys black side to you...
It is not the case..... Of course there are, safe clubs in Hungary, but not all!
No offical rules.... In Öcsény as far as I know there quite safe....
**** happens!
But I'am still angry! Why could not whe, have good saftey rules, like in US (AMA rules)
Or likey in Italy! (Safety net) and so on...
THX for listening again,
Gábor Zoltán
He is a testpilot of an engine factory, and has hes own modell aircraft factory too!
This is hes job, this is what he do for living....
It could be that a life is ruined....
He says, that he will newer hold a transmitter in hes hand again. (Whoevers fault was this....)
I recived this information from a friend, who knows him. (kind of secound hand...)
Another thing:
Some hungarians say that I try to give my countrys black side to you...
It is not the case..... Of course there are, safe clubs in Hungary, but not all!
No offical rules.... In Öcsény as far as I know there quite safe....
**** happens!
But I'am still angry! Why could not whe, have good saftey rules, like in US (AMA rules)
Or likey in Italy! (Safety net) and so on...
THX for listening again,
Gábor Zoltán
05-15-2006, 09:18 AM
#16
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
First, my sincerest condolences to the families of the victims, very sad to have our sport looked at in this light.
This kind of brings up the old debate of giant scale and safety. If he was flying a “model” instead of what is basically a full scale aircraft with a radio I wonder if the outcome would have been the same? A biplane with a 100” wingspan is huge! Let’s say he was flying a 54” span Sig Skybolt, how would it have been different? All models can kill, but it’s much harder to avoid a hit from a model that big and it won’t break as easy as a smaller model. For example the wings will snap right off a Sig Skybolt, but I doubt you could snap the wings on that thing very easily. I doubt all victims were stuck by the engine, the plane almost went straight in. As stated above about European safety standards and the prevalence of giant scale in that region, I was wondering when this was going to happen. A radio frequency is a VERY weak link to your model, I know by experience. I’m not saying all planes should be smaller models, there just has to be stringent flying rules, especially concerning crowd safety at shows and giant scale flying in particular. The Napoleon complex will always be with us…
If it doesn’t stink, stir it up
Dion
This kind of brings up the old debate of giant scale and safety. If he was flying a “model” instead of what is basically a full scale aircraft with a radio I wonder if the outcome would have been the same? A biplane with a 100” wingspan is huge! Let’s say he was flying a 54” span Sig Skybolt, how would it have been different? All models can kill, but it’s much harder to avoid a hit from a model that big and it won’t break as easy as a smaller model. For example the wings will snap right off a Sig Skybolt, but I doubt you could snap the wings on that thing very easily. I doubt all victims were stuck by the engine, the plane almost went straight in. As stated above about European safety standards and the prevalence of giant scale in that region, I was wondering when this was going to happen. A radio frequency is a VERY weak link to your model, I know by experience. I’m not saying all planes should be smaller models, there just has to be stringent flying rules, especially concerning crowd safety at shows and giant scale flying in particular. The Napoleon complex will always be with us…
If it doesn’t stink, stir it up
Dion
05-15-2006, 12:29 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: zonhoven, BELGIUM
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
I've found a bigger coverage of the news emission
http://www.tv2.hu/cikk.php?cikk=100000115496#
click on "TÉNYEK TV: KATT!"
http://www.tv2.hu/cikk.php?cikk=100000115496#
click on "TÉNYEK TV: KATT!"
05-17-2006, 05:12 AM
#18
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pecs, HUNGARY
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
This was in German press. Someone transleted to english, and my friend (bgyenes) posted it in a hungarian forum today:
http://forum.rcmodell.hu/viewtopic.p...6d5c8a7de5d204
"The model flight club Szekszárd had organised past Saturday afternoon a flight show on the large former military airfield Öcsény. As a Stefan W. of the DAeC Luftsport, federation Bavaria association flew his second flight he had a sudden and total loss of control on his aerobatics model Pitts S12 with four-cycle combustion engine (span 2.50 m, approx. 20 kg weight). The fail safe funtion switched on at approximately 20 m height ; driven off by the cross-wind the model flew uncontrolled from the airfield to several hundred meters away into the crowd and impacted there. It broke a panic off; a married couple was killed, four further humans was hurt. The police drove off the unfortunate pilot in handcuffs. Video material was broadcasted over a Hungarian television channel proved that he had flown the fastidious aerobatics program far from the spectators. Only after the loss of the control did the model turn in the crowds direction. Stefan W. was convinced that only a substantial interference resulted in the complete loss of control. This interference was proven free of doubts the following Monday and again on Tuesday morning by the public prosecutor's office. A Hungarian expert and the father of Stefan W, traveled with a scanner from Germany. - Stefan W.' s plane naturally uses 35MHz frequency. The European Radiocommunications Committee recommends all European Union states to reserve it exclusively for model aircrafts. Also Hungary is European Union member.
Overlapping of the frequency however was transmitted by a strong, regional Radio broadcaster in Szekszárd, in particular the channels 61, 62 and 63 were completely disturbed in the change. The plane of Stefan W. works on channel 62. On Monday evening the public prosecutor's office apologized officially with Stefan W. for the unfair treatment and returned his passport. A bail, about which the police wanted to negotiate after provisional release on Sunday, was no more an issue. Which Radio broadcaster it concerns, which switches itself on so suddenly, has not been released by the Hungarian authorities. Stefan W. is a very experienced model pilot, who won prizes with his demonstrations several times „Best OF show “. It was already his third time in Szekszárd . In order to prepare himself for the show, he had traveled one week in advance, and trained the days up to the Flight show. He was conscious that the Hungarian legislation is not a guarantee to unimpaired 35 MHz frequency. Just to protect his valuable model, range tests with a light electrical model belong to his routine prior each flight day. He had not noticed the smallest disturbance during the entire entire week up to Friday afternoon and Saturday where isolated small interferences occured, up to the misfortunate flight. - The flight line of the model flight club Szekszárd held the usual safety routine with the check of the frequencies and the delivery of the transmitters, however no scanner had been used. Gerhard Wöbbeking Member of the executive committee that DAeC sport specialized group Modellflug"
Gábor Zoltán
+36/30/300-3686
[email protected]
MSN: [email protected]
skype: gabeki
http://forum.rcmodell.hu/viewtopic.p...6d5c8a7de5d204
"The model flight club Szekszárd had organised past Saturday afternoon a flight show on the large former military airfield Öcsény. As a Stefan W. of the DAeC Luftsport, federation Bavaria association flew his second flight he had a sudden and total loss of control on his aerobatics model Pitts S12 with four-cycle combustion engine (span 2.50 m, approx. 20 kg weight). The fail safe funtion switched on at approximately 20 m height ; driven off by the cross-wind the model flew uncontrolled from the airfield to several hundred meters away into the crowd and impacted there. It broke a panic off; a married couple was killed, four further humans was hurt. The police drove off the unfortunate pilot in handcuffs. Video material was broadcasted over a Hungarian television channel proved that he had flown the fastidious aerobatics program far from the spectators. Only after the loss of the control did the model turn in the crowds direction. Stefan W. was convinced that only a substantial interference resulted in the complete loss of control. This interference was proven free of doubts the following Monday and again on Tuesday morning by the public prosecutor's office. A Hungarian expert and the father of Stefan W, traveled with a scanner from Germany. - Stefan W.' s plane naturally uses 35MHz frequency. The European Radiocommunications Committee recommends all European Union states to reserve it exclusively for model aircrafts. Also Hungary is European Union member.
Overlapping of the frequency however was transmitted by a strong, regional Radio broadcaster in Szekszárd, in particular the channels 61, 62 and 63 were completely disturbed in the change. The plane of Stefan W. works on channel 62. On Monday evening the public prosecutor's office apologized officially with Stefan W. for the unfair treatment and returned his passport. A bail, about which the police wanted to negotiate after provisional release on Sunday, was no more an issue. Which Radio broadcaster it concerns, which switches itself on so suddenly, has not been released by the Hungarian authorities. Stefan W. is a very experienced model pilot, who won prizes with his demonstrations several times „Best OF show “. It was already his third time in Szekszárd . In order to prepare himself for the show, he had traveled one week in advance, and trained the days up to the Flight show. He was conscious that the Hungarian legislation is not a guarantee to unimpaired 35 MHz frequency. Just to protect his valuable model, range tests with a light electrical model belong to his routine prior each flight day. He had not noticed the smallest disturbance during the entire entire week up to Friday afternoon and Saturday where isolated small interferences occured, up to the misfortunate flight. - The flight line of the model flight club Szekszárd held the usual safety routine with the check of the frequencies and the delivery of the transmitters, however no scanner had been used. Gerhard Wöbbeking Member of the executive committee that DAeC sport specialized group Modellflug"
Gábor Zoltán
+36/30/300-3686
[email protected]
MSN: [email protected]
skype: gabeki
05-17-2006, 11:07 AM
#21
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: midland, MI
Posts: 2,666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
um.... there is no repairing that!......
unfortunate indeed. condolences to those who have suffered. Also condolences to the Pilot.. To have to go thru the rest of his days with the knowledge his plane killed people, even at NO FAULT of his own, will be a Hard Road to walk! i couldnt imagine how terrible this guy feels....
Timmahh
unfortunate indeed. condolences to those who have suffered. Also condolences to the Pilot.. To have to go thru the rest of his days with the knowledge his plane killed people, even at NO FAULT of his own, will be a Hard Road to walk! i couldnt imagine how terrible this guy feels....
Timmahh
05-17-2006, 11:39 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tehachapi,
CA
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
Sometimes I am amazed at the questions and remarks presented in these forums. This question " They gonna repair the plane for the next show ? " is the most unthinking, cruel, assinine example of a person without regard for the feeling of people or contact with the reality of life that I have seen yet. Sorry about the rant. I just can't believe what some people feel is humor. My condolences go out to the pilot and the victims and their families.
Sunny_B
Sunny_B
05-23-2006, 01:36 PM
#24
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: aldergrove, BC, CANADA
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
Gábor,
Thank you for helping us to get the correct information.
(As posted in the Club house discusion Forum)
It is IMPERATIVE that we take note of this incident and we seem to be in agreement with respect to importance of safety.
This must improve our safety awareness and I’m sure it will. For those who take this incident without the due attention it warrants, I say for the good of us all, please change the way you view your hobby and take it more seriously. You can help to educate your club members who are new to the hobby.
I must interject with respect to interference and the "PCM" myth.. After viewing the short video, it seems that the pilot has competent flying skills and I would say that he is probably over the flight line and not the crowd…. There are to many unknowns for us to be able to identify the cause of this crash…. PCM receivers (contrary to some of the ret erect) only lock for as much as 1.5 seconds and then cycle back on to recapture the transmitter signal. I have first hand knowledge of this operation. I was myself flying at an “Air show” (full-scale) when my receiver locked out during a flight… I had control for 2 seconds and then no control for two seconds and then back on, until I eventually put the plane down in an unpopulated part of the airport….Luckily the grass strip we were using at the time. Damage to plane was repaired and the eventual culprit was within the receiver it self.. The possible causes for this fatal severe crash in Hungary, could be Battery, servos, connectors, switch contacts, or the receiver itself…or any connecting wiring… or even a glitch buster between the receiver and servos.. I hesitate to point at a PCM receiver though as there would likely have been stick input at some point and it would have shown up in the aircraft attitude between Lock outs before going in…. If any of you have ever experienced a severe glitch in your FM receiver, resulting in a crash, you will agree that you have absolutely NO CONTROL over your craft as long as a glitch is present….The video appears to show that the plane is not responding at all from the bottom of the split “S” until the crash. Barring statistics on FM vs PCM receiver internal failure rates, I would suggest that more aircraft crash (while experiencing a radio glitch problem) flying with FM receivers than PCM receivers. The PCM receiver diagnostic (lock out function) tells you something is wrong while giving you a chance to bring the craft down safely or put it in, away from the crowd… Having 18 years of RC experience and having flown at & CD,d RC involvement at full scale air shows for 11 years, I can fully appreciate the logistics of putting on Model flying displays and the safety needs as well. Our own Distance of crowd to spectators is usually 500 feet: 5 times the MAAC requirements. We are all susceptible to a failure at some time… We can minimize the severity of consequences resulting from failures by learning from our mistakes, and even better, learning by others mistakes who come before us.
Please be safe.
Cheers.
Rob ,
RCFCBC
British Columbia
Canada.
It appears that (REGAURDLESS OF PCM or FM Receiver) the culprit was interference (from another source) Either way an accident is unavoidable in such circumstances and there is no predictability to the eventual crash.
Our Condolences to the family of the couple and the RC pilot
Rob.
Thank you for helping us to get the correct information.
(As posted in the Club house discusion Forum)
It is IMPERATIVE that we take note of this incident and we seem to be in agreement with respect to importance of safety.
This must improve our safety awareness and I’m sure it will. For those who take this incident without the due attention it warrants, I say for the good of us all, please change the way you view your hobby and take it more seriously. You can help to educate your club members who are new to the hobby.
I must interject with respect to interference and the "PCM" myth.. After viewing the short video, it seems that the pilot has competent flying skills and I would say that he is probably over the flight line and not the crowd…. There are to many unknowns for us to be able to identify the cause of this crash…. PCM receivers (contrary to some of the ret erect) only lock for as much as 1.5 seconds and then cycle back on to recapture the transmitter signal. I have first hand knowledge of this operation. I was myself flying at an “Air show” (full-scale) when my receiver locked out during a flight… I had control for 2 seconds and then no control for two seconds and then back on, until I eventually put the plane down in an unpopulated part of the airport….Luckily the grass strip we were using at the time. Damage to plane was repaired and the eventual culprit was within the receiver it self.. The possible causes for this fatal severe crash in Hungary, could be Battery, servos, connectors, switch contacts, or the receiver itself…or any connecting wiring… or even a glitch buster between the receiver and servos.. I hesitate to point at a PCM receiver though as there would likely have been stick input at some point and it would have shown up in the aircraft attitude between Lock outs before going in…. If any of you have ever experienced a severe glitch in your FM receiver, resulting in a crash, you will agree that you have absolutely NO CONTROL over your craft as long as a glitch is present….The video appears to show that the plane is not responding at all from the bottom of the split “S” until the crash. Barring statistics on FM vs PCM receiver internal failure rates, I would suggest that more aircraft crash (while experiencing a radio glitch problem) flying with FM receivers than PCM receivers. The PCM receiver diagnostic (lock out function) tells you something is wrong while giving you a chance to bring the craft down safely or put it in, away from the crowd… Having 18 years of RC experience and having flown at & CD,d RC involvement at full scale air shows for 11 years, I can fully appreciate the logistics of putting on Model flying displays and the safety needs as well. Our own Distance of crowd to spectators is usually 500 feet: 5 times the MAAC requirements. We are all susceptible to a failure at some time… We can minimize the severity of consequences resulting from failures by learning from our mistakes, and even better, learning by others mistakes who come before us.
Please be safe.
Cheers.
Rob ,
RCFCBC
British Columbia
Canada.
It appears that (REGAURDLESS OF PCM or FM Receiver) the culprit was interference (from another source) Either way an accident is unavoidable in such circumstances and there is no predictability to the eventual crash.
Our Condolences to the family of the couple and the RC pilot
Rob.
05-26-2006, 09:41 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Las Cruces,
ND
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Two died in rc airshow.
It sucks to be that guy!
I think it would be a real tragedy if the pilot never held a tx again. It's his life. Many people have killed other people with airplanes 100's of times. They weren't model airplanes, but that's all symantics.
Buck up, grab a handfull of mane, and for crying out loud GET BACK ON THAT HORSE.
Sh** happens.
I think it would be a real tragedy if the pilot never held a tx again. It's his life. Many people have killed other people with airplanes 100's of times. They weren't model airplanes, but that's all symantics.
Buck up, grab a handfull of mane, and for crying out loud GET BACK ON THAT HORSE.
Sh** happens.