RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash  
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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 6/16/2006 4:07:16 AM   
Woketman



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From: Slidell, LA, USA
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Lee, you got me on the switch orientation!!

I am not sure if you remember, but I was at a Lockheed Martin seminar at the Deer Creek facility about 5 years ago or so. I went out to your Chatfield facility one afternoon. There were a few prop guys flying, no jets. I asked if the guys knew you and Dean and several said "yes". I can remember seeing a lot of clear, open ground, but I think one guy mentioned the camp ground (maybe under construction then?). I remember it was very windy that day. I bet its like that a lot there. Great facility though!

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 6/16/2006 5:32:50 AM   
GSR


 

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Looks like a nice flying site- As a campground it looks like the surface of the moon-Guess its for campers that aint into scenery. Scott

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"If you ain't crashed-You ain't flown"

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 6/16/2006 8:20:33 AM   
Eddie P



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From: Reno, NV, USA
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Here is a brief moment of comic relief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwJW6glWdI&mode=suggested&search=Flying

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 6/16/2006 10:24:43 AM   
BaldEagel



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Well I am glad you think its funny to see aircraft being flown in inapropriate places, out of control and endangering humans, also highlighting the fact that model aircraft are dangerous. Invalidate your insurance anyone.

Mike

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No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 6/16/2006 11:26:38 AM   
Silver182



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From: Denver, CO, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: F4u5

Lee, I was sorry to see your MiG go in. I was the guy who splated the 124 inch Avenger the day before. Good luck with future projects.

Everyone fly safe...that is the best insurance you have.


Boy weren't we lucky to get those smacked Ass award T-shirts.....tell all the guys from Minnesota thanks for coming down to fly with us.
Lee

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 6/16/2006 11:34:17 AM   
Silver182



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quote:

ORIGINAL: GSR

Looks like a nice flying site- As a campground it looks like the surface of the moon-Guess its for campers that aint into scenery. Scott


Scott,
Hehehe.... well the area doesn't in the summer look so bad.. but your right it does make all of us wonder why anyone would drive from home stay within the city and camp in these spots. I've often wondered if some guys use there campers like motels..hehe get it girl friends.. We wished the state would never have built the damn campsites.. but the old saying you build it and they will come sure applies here..

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 6/16/2006 4:52:14 PM   
Eddie P



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

Well I am glad you think its funny to see aircraft being flown in inapropriate places, out of control and endangering humans, also highlighting the fact that model aircraft are dangerous. Invalidate your insurance anyone.

Mike


Glad to see we still have a sense of humor, I was a little concerned about that frankly but now that has been laid to rest

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 7/4/2006 3:18:31 AM   
Jackjet



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From: Hesperia, CA, USA
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Sorry this happened to you.......... a $29 switch causes a $20k jet to crash.......damn.....been there............

Jackjet

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 7/7/2006 9:27:12 PM   
Stallman


 

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What does the combustion chamber have to do with anything?

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RE: Safety Matters - 8/17/2006 6:03:52 PM   
cr2k



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From: Madera, CA, USA
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While this may not be a "JET" it is an RC aircraft. The point should be that ALL of our "TOYS" can be deadly. A jet can be even worse as it flys much faster and has a very pointy front end.

Lawn darts were outlawed and they only weighd about a pound and were hand launched and caused deaths.

Jets weigh 15 to 50 pounds and are powered by an engine that propells them to over 200 mph!

That is why it is of utmost imnportance to call "Out of control" when you have lost control, to alert people.

I have posted signs around our field saying that R/C aircraft can go out of control and come down anywhere - Be Aware Look Up.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 8/20/2006 7:06:43 AM   
NorfolkSouthern


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikedenilin

I never like these 40% 3D planes. They are like flying lawnmowers without a safety cover. The spinning prop blades are most lethal. I think that these 2 viticms were killed instantly by the spinning props.

I strongly believe that jets are safer than these large scale planes. Jet pilots are more aware of safety operations due to the waiver requirements. I really think that AMA should mandate a waiver program for the 33% upper planes or for large engine placement. I have seen some club flyers with wallets bigger than their brains flying these giants recklessly. They should be certified for safety reasons.

Any thoughts on this?

Mike


First, in view of the incident, I feel the same way about regulating anything 25% scale and larger. There is just too much that can happen with a model that big, and one safety oversight can kill somebody or change a life forever. I have read about the fail safes in jets that shut down turbines when contact with the transmitter is lost. I actually think that should be a requirement for anything that runs by remote control, whether it be a car, plane, boat, or robot. After reading this thread, it causes me to think about more than just the cost of the model.

On my first flight, the instructor and several other people asked me how long I charged the batteries in the plane's receiver. At first, I told them that I charged the batteries initially for 15 hours, as per the instructions. My plane was grounded for that day as a result of my answer. They told me to take it home, drain the batteries, and run the charger for 24 hours. I simply did what I was told, and did not question them. I saved the photos to the two incidents discussed here too, so I can perfectly understand WHY they were so serious about the batteries. I brought the model back to the field a few days later, and everything checked out fine during the range check. I followed their instructions, again, no questions asked. That day, I got two flights in safely, my first flights on the trainer box.

The duration of a battery's charge does not tell me everything I want to know about a battery's health, unfortunately. My model doesn't have a volt meter that can tell me what the charge level is on the batteries before flight. Although that UAV (it's a model aircraft to some, but I consider it as an unmanned aerial vehicle) is airworthy, I took it upon myself to take it out of service for that very reason. That plane is not going to fly until I get a volt meter that will tell me how good the batteries are before I even start the engine. Why am I doing this? Because the field is close to an expressway and a residential area. If a plane ever loses contact with the transmitter because of undercharged batteries and hits a car, hits a house, injures somebody, or kills somebody a few miles away, you can very well bet the authorities WILL find out who that model belongs to. Needless to say, it WILL NOT be mine if I can in any way help it. If somebody gets injured or killed, the cost of a new plane to replace the one that gets lost is the the last thing to worry about.

NorfolkSouthern

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 8/20/2006 5:33:00 PM   
Eddie P



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From: Reno, NV, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorfolkSouthern

On my first flight, the instructor and several other people asked me how long I charged the batteries in the plane's receiver. At first, I told them that I charged the batteries initially for 15 hours, as per the instructions. My plane was grounded for that day as a result of my answer. They told me to take it home, drain the batteries, and run the charger for 24 hours. I simply did what I was told, and did not question them. I saved the photos to the two incidents discussed here too, so I can perfectly understand WHY they were so serious about the batteries. I brought the model back to the field a few days later, and everything checked out fine during the range check. I followed their instructions, again, no questions asked. That day, I got two flights in safely, my first flights on the trainer box.

The duration of a battery's charge does not tell me everything I want to know about a battery's health, unfortunately. My model doesn't have a volt meter that can tell me what the charge level is on the batteries before flight. Although that UAV (it's a model aircraft to some, but I consider it as an unmanned aerial vehicle) is airworthy, I took it upon myself to take it out of service for that very reason. That plane is not going to fly until I get a volt meter that will tell me how good the batteries are before I even start the engine. Why am I doing this? Because the field is close to an expressway and a residential area. If a plane ever loses contact with the transmitter because of undercharged batteries and hits a car, hits a house, injures somebody, or kills somebody a few miles away, you can very well bet the authorities WILL find out who that model belongs to. Needless to say, it WILL NOT be mine if I can in any way help it. If somebody gets injured or killed, the cost of a new plane to replace the one that gets lost is the the last thing to worry about.

NorfolkSouthern


Hi NS-

The battery voltage on NiCD or NiMH, sitting idle under no load, doesn't tell you much. You have to place a load on the batteries and then look at the voltage drop to determine the condition of the cells. There are a few ways of doing this but a high quality charger like a Schulze Camelian or similar, which can condition packs and cycle them, will give you a much better indication of the pack's health.

Besides the attention to the battery condition, which is very good when taken into context, it is also very important to concentrate on the whole airplane as a series of systems: flight controls, airframe, powerplant, radio link (airborne and TX), servos, etc.. They all play an important role and their neglect can cause any number of problems.

However, in the particular case in Hungary, the model airplane and transmitter seemed to have been in perfect condition. It appears a mobile radio station hijcked the frequency that was in use to control the model airplane, and caused the resulting lock out that led to the crash. This is very much an issue of how the event was conducted and the oversight of the event coordinators.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 9/1/2006 8:50:59 PM   
David Gladwin



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So, some guys are putting 36 pound thrust engines into a Bobcat , an airframe originally designed for 12 pounds of thrust from a RAM 500, with not a mention of flutter protection. Sheer madness. Please discuss, or of course, we can all stand idly by and wait for someone to give this sport one big black eye, as BV, quite rightly, calls it.
Regards,
David Gladwin.

< Message edited by David Gladwin -- 9/1/2006 8:56:48 PM >

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 9/2/2006 5:35:36 PM   
wojtek


 

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David, Since I can obviously assume you are referring to me here, let me correct some of your thinking. First of all the BobCat Composite is not designed for 12 lbs engines. In fact a 12 lbs engine will provide a very marginal performance on this airplane ( that’s just my personal opinion). A few things to be considered:

- my BobCat weighs in over 25 lbs dry, and wet is right around 35 with a full load of fuel and smoke oil. That’s barely over a 1:1 t:w
- I have reinforced several areas of the airplane, and am very aware of its physical capabilities.
- How come I don’t see you pointing out that people are putting 36 lbs engines in on Rookies, and Bandits ? ( I have seen these blow apart when yanked too hard ) or p200s and p180s on eurosports ( also an airframe prone to failure ) why are you not calling them “mad “ also ?? I sense a little bit of bias here from your end …
- The BVM BobCat is one of the most solid and robust airframes out there. It is a very compact design with a large amount of strength and list coming off of the fuse. The stabs are not flutter prone because of the boxed in design, etc …
- There are things that you can do with 36 lbs that any less would not be possible with… like 90 deg verticals out of a slow almost stalled pass ? of how about out of a tail slide ? I have had 2 occasions on landing where the extra thrust has also definitely got me out of trouble, and actually prevented an incident. Ever see a BobCat almost hover in inverted high alpha flight ? 36 lbs is quite useful here … not to mention the super acceleration the plane has right off the deck ..
- Throttle response: the 36 lbs engine I am using has almost instant throttle response, I can not get that out of most other engines of lesser power such as a p60, 70 or 120 ( which I used to have on this plane )
- There is a big difference with things done by a beginner, vs someone who knows what they are doing. I guarantee that a higher percentage of pilots using 12 lbs engines in BobCats are of danger to others vs those using 25 lbs or more â€