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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 9/3/2008 4:19 PM   
Bosshossv8


 

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From: Schiller park, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I have always been a Jet Fan. I am going to be building a ShokJet top winger soon. A few friends are avid Jet guys.

Last Year there was a spectacular BVM Ultra Bandit Explosion/crash at Fox Valley Aero Culb in St. Charles Illinois at a popular Jet Rally.

A high speed pass and disintegration of the airframe. No one was hurt.

The video by various spectators has never been seen.

It seems to me there was a concerted effort to NOT allow the tapes to be made public. Conspiracy theories have abounded here, Seems dishonest to me, however, I understand that speculation of the cause was what feared the most. I am not buying that fact.

While this incident is locally famous, I have not read much about it, so if there was a cover up , it worked. Still , locally it is talked about all the time. No one likes thier dirty laundry Monday morning quaterbacked, and a good joib of making the tapes disappear was done.

At the recent FVAC rally we were allowed to sit at the end of the runway less than what seemed a safe distance under our canopy. Approaches by some of the jets had us looking for a safe exit route out of the canopy..... really the only scary scary one was a prop plane that was allowed to fly.

Perceptions are everything though. I know the Safety Officer and told him how we felt, and he duly noted it.

We need to be upfront with ALL failures, no matter the consequences or pride. My Shokjet will be flown only after many checkouts by pilots I will defer to for thier knowledge. This is in the best interests of keeping our hobby as little governemt regulated/banned as possible. If we don't self police, we will lose our hobby.

The FVAC Ultra Bandit Crash and it's non-discussion/disclosure is one example of selective reporting , in my opinion. I would stand to be corrected. It sure makes great fodder for speculation at all of our "crash coffee clatches' at the field.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/12/2008 9:53 PM   
David Gladwin



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Status: offline 		Over on another thread there is a video of jet flying in Kuwait. Great aircraft handling and everyone who has commented thinks its great. However take a look at just how close to the pilot , photographer and others the jets are being flown in both straight and turning flight. If and I repeat IF the camera is not distorting things it all looks absurdly, dangerously close.

On the tape it says the flying is totally legal in Kuwait, (sure as hell isn't in UK and Australia) suggesting they realize it is not good, or a "normal" standard of operating.

What these guys do in the privacy of their own field is their business but to promote this sort of flying on RCU and Youtube will almost certainly lead to others, less skilled, trying to emulate with the inevitable results.

Frankly I don't care just how skilled these pilots are this sort of flying reflects exceptionally bad judgement, total elimination of margins for error, and sets a rotten example, and to promote it in the public domain and applaud it seems less than sensible to say the least. Frankly, I would have hoped that pilots with exceptional handling skills would have matched it with a similar standard of sensible operating practices.

Comment ?

Regards,

David Gladwin.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/12/2008 10:01 PM   
AndyAndrews


 

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/13/2008 12:21 PM   
RLeeds



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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

Over on another thread there is a video of jet flying in Kuwait. Great aircraft handling and everyone who has commented thinks its great. However take a look at just how close to the pilot , photographer and others the jets are being flown in both straight and turning flight. If and I repeat IF the camera is not distorting things it all looks absurdly, dangerously close.

On the tape it says the flying is totally legal in Kuwait, (sure as hell isn't in UK and Australia) suggesting they realize it is not good, or a "normal" standard of operating.

What these guys do in the privacy of their own field is their business but to promote this sort of flying on RCU and Youtube will almost certainly lead to others, less skilled, trying to emulate with the inevitable results.

Frankly I don't care just how skilled these pilots are this sort of flying reflects exceptionally bad judgement, total elimination of margins for error, and sets a rotten example, and to promote it in the public domain and applaud it seems less than sensible to say the least. Frankly, I would have hoped that pilots with exceptional handling skills would have matched it with a similar standard of sensible operating practices.

Comment ?

Regards,

David Gladwin.


Agree with David 100%.


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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/13/2008 7:47 PM   
AndyAndrews


 

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Status: offline 		If it wasn't David S flying those jets the board would be all over that like stink on ****. I don't know him and I hear he is an exceptional individual and really cool guy. Everyone makes mistakes though. Maybe they should edit that part out of the video. Some of the younger pilots probably look up to DS as a role model.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/13/2008 10:06 PM   
David Gladwin



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From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		The very best pilots make mistakes, rarely, if ever, have 100% perfect judgement and equipment fails, even Ultra Bandit noses can fail with catastrophic consequences, as we have seen.

What I saw on those videos was some of, if not THE, best aircraft manoevering I have ever seen. It was also, in my view, the most irresponsibly stupid, undisciplined, and dangerous jet model flying I have ever seen in my 50 years of modelling and would NEVER be tolerated in the UK or Australia and probably most other countries too. Guess why !

The very best jet pilots in the world have a duty to the hobby, its well-being and very future, to demonstrate and maintain the very best operating standards to match, whenever and wherever they fly.

That is exactly why the very best pilots in the fullsize world, Red Arrows, etc, ALWAYS fly to the very highest standards and NEVER bust the carefully laid down parameters within which they must operate. Seems these guys know, or think they know, better than the professionals.

If this sort of jet flying continues, or worse is copied, then our future, if we have one, may be bleak.

Please discuss, I am just off for another week of teaching air cadets to fly gliders to military standards of discipline and safety, I look forward to seeing the reaction when I return.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/14/2008 6:56 AM   
Stobe777


 

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From: vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		Some amazingly talented flying in the video, but its sad to see that top pilots get bored if there's no element of danger present. For average pilots jet flying is exiting enough without it. The Australian F3D world champ used to practice just like that, flying towards him as the 1st pylon. Flying extremely low. I've flown pylon in the past and seen models flying close enough. Maybe everything should not be filmed. TP.

< Message edited by Stobe777 -- 12/14/2008 7:04 AM >

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/22/2008 1:43 PM   
SpiderJets



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From: .., BELGIUM
Status: offline 		During my last visit to Singapore, I was told that RC Jet flying is no longer done there since a few months. ("Being banned" would not be correct).
The jet pilots were flying in one of the very scarce areas on the island where they actually could : on a few streets in an industrial zone (Tuas area), between the street lights on an active road.

I've been there one Sunday to watch them.

Many weeks after my visit, one pilot crashed his jet on the maiden flight (an F-86) and it went through the roof of a factory building nearby and caused fire. Everyone ran off before police or firemen arrived and since then, the police often patrols there to find out who was the owner. Of course, nobody flies jets in Singapore anymore ; they all cross the bridge and go to an airfield in Malaysia now.

I do not know any more details (I certainly do not know who it was) ; rest assured Asians are very discrete when it comes to such kind of information and many people were even utmost surprised that I had heard about the incident.

Nicolas.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/22/2008 1:48 PM   
SpiderJets



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Status: offline 		Here is a link to a video made in Tuas ; I do not remember one single building standing close to the spot. Call it Murphy's Law...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZtEIqsSYRs&feature=channel_page

Nicolas.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 12/23/2008 12:13 AM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		there is a video on Utube showing a crash into a building by a RC Jet. Looks like it caused extensive damage. I cant recall how it was listed by try rc jet crash in asia.....

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 3/5/2009 7:04 PM   
Captainbob


 

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Status: offline 		I'm with bevar

Don't get me wrong safety is important. Several years ago a hockey fan in my city was killed by an errant puck. Do you think they should have arrested the player? Stopped hockey games? Make all fans watch on closed circuit TV?
NO. Accidents happen. they happen in all sorts of ways and in all sorts of activities. The sky is not falling guys.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 4/23/2009 3:39 AM   
PeterDays


 

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Status: offline 		I don't think it was a jet or they would have noticed

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuId=77&ContentID=136680

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 4/27/2009 7:08 PM   
JimBrown



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Status: offline 		Peter, the model did not hit the full size jet:

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/index.php?rn=222561&cl=13079772&ch=8103076

However, the people involved are complete idiots. I certainly hope they do get jail time.

...jim

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RE: Safety Matters - 5/23/2009 1:38 AM   
TowerZach


 

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Wow this is a great reminder of how important safety is and how terrible things can happen.  I'll never forget the time I was flying a Golberg Skylark (?) by myself and was shot down out of the blue.  I was making a fairly fast and low pass when all-of-the-sudden the plane rolled over and went squarely into the ground... only 35 ft. away from me!  Just think what would have happened if it would happened sooner and rolled in my direction!  I could have been killed.  The next week watching a GIANT scale Extra go through it's paces at a fun fly was fun, but at the same time alittle unerving.

God bless the families of the dead and the injured.




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RE: Safety Matters - 9/22/2009 4:52 AM   
erbroens



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From: Curitiba, Parana, BRAZIL
Status: offline 		Unfortunately I have just been informed that another r/c fatal accident happened in Brazil: A simple .40 glow engine trainer hit in the head the president of Araraquara´s r/c modeling club in Sao Paulo, Milton Aliberti wich was a very experienced modeler and a nice person too. By some unknown reason he crossed the runway at the precise moment of the landing of this small plane. Hard to believe that this is the second time that this kind of fatality happened here, again with a small trainer aircraft and this time with such a wary modeler as a victim.

May his soul rest in peace.


http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u627069.shtml

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 10/17/2009 11:19 AM   
David Gladwin



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Status: offline 		I ruffled a few feathers recently after a large, powerful heavy model crashed in a fireball, caused it was suggested by the luminary owner/pilot by the failure of its SINGLE battery. I suggested flying such a model on a single battery was dumb, ( in fact I believe it to be dangerously irresponsible) , when we all know that failure of a single battery should be a non-event, the auxiliary or standby battery takes the load. We have known this in fullsize aviation since Pontious was a Pilate.

I got the usual abuse from the usual muppets for speaking up so may I suggest you/they take a look at the latest post on the BVM site, "AirShowitis", Bob hits the nail RIGHT on the head. If we carry on as we are it will almost certainly end in tears and more.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 10/17/2009 11:28 PM   
jason



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Air Showitis
By: Bob Violett
October 2009

A potentially dangerous affliction.

Definition: You feel that you must out perform the pilot and plane that proceeded you so that you receive more applause and adulation from the spectators. Therefore, you push the model past previously tested speeds and "G" forces in unpracticed maneuvers.

Discussion: Some famous pilots are often as guilty as those who want to become famous. The spectators that you are trying to impress have no idea that they are being exposed to a possible disaster. They are ignorant of the absolute limits of the machine and what could happen if a structural or electrical failure occurs. They brought their kids to be entertained, not unknowingly threatened.

Disaster happens occasionally in full scale airshows even though pilot proficiency and airframe integrity are closely regulated. During the past several years, I have seen multiple near disasters involving Jet Model Airplanes that suffered at the hands of pilots afflicted with "Air Showitis". So far, we have been fortunate. Common sense and responsibility should dictate that a show pilot practice his routine in the absence of spectators. Equipping the model with Telemetry devices will give the pilot real information about the model and its limitations.

With this knowledge, he can perform responsibly within the known limits and not pose a risk to innocent bystanders. After all, spectators can't recognize a 10-20 mph increase or an extra 2 G's, yet just those extras could be the infamous "straw".

We have been lucky so far, but it would be folly to keep depending on just luck. If professionalism is practiced, it will be recognized and appreciated.

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RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 10/17/2009 11:50 PM   
Woketman



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Status: offline 		Yeah, in the Space Shuttle Program, we call that "Go Fever"!!!

My most famous case of that was at Mississippi Afterburner '03. And BV was standing right there watching!!! Just glad I did not have to pull his shoe out of my a-s after I landed a burnt Isobar!!!!

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