RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: Geoff White, HarryC, ppljr
  Printable Version
       

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash
Page: <<   < prev  5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 7:12:03 PM   
Gazzer



Posts: 957
Joined: 4/21/2004
From: Southam, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I'd like to think the reasoning for this been visited is because people are thinking about it.

I did suggest earlier a sticky thread called Safety Matters, but the mods didn't pick up on it.

You can't be guilty by association if your actively trying to prevent something, but you could be guilty of negligence if you simply passed it over to another thread........ So much interest suggests a more proactive and perhaps considered approach, perhaps the other threads would do well to take on "our" lead....... Please take that in context I remind myself everytime I comment on what happened and why this thread started, I would agree to it being renamed now.

A few hits from the other thread suggests a lack of interest.

The power source is irrelevant, its the process and focus that matter.

I do agree that the thread should be everywhere though, even the non engined hand launch 3gramme park flyers have an aspect of safety to cover off.....

Humbly,

Gazzer

_____________________________

Good judgement comes from bad experience.... Must be a good judge!

(in reply to wojtek)
       Post #: 176

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 7:34:51 PM   
MMallory


 

Posts: 1111
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: South Plainfield, NJ, USA
Status: online 		GSR,

All this proves is that we, the Jet crowd, care to talk more about safety than certain other on-line groups. Human nature is to cover up anything that makes you look bad. I would expect the other groups to keep quiet because they see all of the grief our regulations give us. I think it was said before, the people who will do sonething about better safety have read this and they will change behavior, those that won't, won't.

Mark

(in reply to wojtek)
       Post #: 177

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 7:53:12 PM   
ghost_rider



Posts: 4255
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Ft Wayne, IN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazzer

I'd like to think the reasoning for this been visited is because people are thinking about it.

I did suggest earlier a sticky thread called Safety Matters, but the mods didn't pick up on it.



Gazzer


Without any objections, thread renamed from "2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash" to "Safety Matters" and placed on top of the forum.



_____________________________

.....ghost_rider....out....
AMA 9119
“Beware of your so called friends because you know your enemies”

(in reply to Gazzer)
       Post #: 178

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 8:04:22 PM   
JetflyerJ



Posts: 2925
Joined: 1/30/2002
From: Boca Raton, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MMallory

GSR,

All this proves is that we, the Jet crowd, care to talk more about safety than certain other on-line groups. Human nature is to cover up anything that makes you look bad. I would expect the other groups to keep quiet because they see all of the grief our regulations give us. I think it was said before, the people who will do sonething about better safety have read this and they will change behavior, those that won't, won't.

Mark



Mark,

I think you're right on with your comment. I bet you if this was JET that took someone out, it would be all over RCU and every other chat forum in the planet. It is unfortunate that this happened but things happen, no matter what you do.

(in reply to MMallory)
       Post #: 179

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 11:04:29 PM   
air mail rcu


 

Posts: 522
Joined: 8/3/2003
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Status: offline 		This was posted here first. Most people subscribed to the thread and just stay and answer where ever it was first posted. I think that is why all the posts are here. Not because jet people are any safer then anybody else. I don't even own a jet and have no desire to. And I don't associate this thread with jets. Everyone knows it was a prop job. Maybe no one is talking on the other threads because their all here. You jet guys should take advantage of this opportunity to show us prop guys how safe you are. Maybe we all can learn something.

_____________________________

Take-offs are optional. Landings are mandatory.

(in reply to JetflyerJ)
       Post #: 180

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 11:18:58 PM   
Woketman



Posts: 3982
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: Slidell, LA, USA
Status: offline 		Look at the overall jet safety record. I think we already showed you guys how safe we are.

That should not be taken to mean that I think we can't do better, but we've done pretty good.

_____________________________

Team Hitec/Multiplex, Fromeco

(in reply to air mail rcu)
       Post #: 181

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 11:22:47 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

Posts: 7676
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Woketman

Look at the overall jet safety record. I think we already showed you guys how safe we are.

That should not be taken to mean that I think we can't do better, but we've done pretty good.


I just can't accept that logic. There has not BEEN enough jet flying to say ANYTHING, statistically.

I know, people like to throw out statistics, but all it would take is one major accident with jets...
Then, suddenly, the stats will read that jets are hundreds of times more likely to cause an accident.
For every jet flight each weekened, how many regular planes take a flight? A THOUSAND? Five thousand?

(in reply to Woketman)
       Post #: 182

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 11:42:14 PM   
Jetkopter



Posts: 601
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: Putnam Valley, NY,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

quote:

ORIGINAL: Woketman

Look at the overall jet safety record. I think we already showed you guys how safe we are.

That should not be taken to mean that I think we can't do better, but we've done pretty good.


I just can't accept that logic. There has not BEEN enough jet flying to say ANYTHING, statistically.

I know, people like to throw out statistics, but all it would take is one major accident with jets...
Then, suddenly, the stats will read that jets are hundreds of times more likely to cause an accident.
For every jet flight each weekened, how many regular planes take a flight? A THOUSAND? Five thousand?




Curtis, I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. Overall the vast majority of jet pilots are extremely proficient flyers. The knowledge and skill levels of turbine pilots are far beyond the average R\C pilot. There is plenty of jet flying going on, not any where near the amount of your basic r\c models but the caliber of flying is much higher. How can you fairly compare two extreme ends of the hobby ? I have to agree with Woketman, we are very safe.

(in reply to EASYTIGER)
       Post #: 183

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/19/2006 11:52:17 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

Posts: 7676
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jetkopter


quote:

ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

quote:

ORIGINAL: Woketman

Look at the overall jet safety record. I think we already showed you guys how safe we are.

That should not be taken to mean that I think we can't do better, but we've done pretty good.


I just can't accept that logic. There has not BEEN enough jet flying to say ANYTHING, statistically.

I know, people like to throw out statistics, but all it would take is one major accident with jets...
Then, suddenly, the stats will read that jets are hundreds of times more likely to cause an accident.
For every jet flight each weekened, how many regular planes take a flight? A THOUSAND? Five thousand?




Curtis, I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. Overall the vast majority of jet pilots are extremely proficient flyers. The knowledge and skill levels of turbine pilots are far beyond the average R\C pilot. There is plenty of jet flying going on, not any where near the amount of your basic r\c models but the caliber of flying is much higher. How can you fairly compare two extreme ends of the hobby ? I have to agree with Woketman, we are very safe.


I understand your point, but I (respectfully) disagree. I see a lot of poor piloting, poor decision making, and poor building in the jet world, same as any other world. And I oftimes see some of the best pilots and builders don't do jets at all.
There is an arrogance, I know unintended, in your statement, that probably has a lot to do with a lot of the rift that you sometimes see between jets and the rest of the modelling community. The truth is, most jets are ARFs, and assembled no better or worse than most other models. That that boomerang from the other day as an example. Kind of basic to remove the covering before gluing. Yet, there it was!

And the fact still remains that one jet accident would throw all the statistics way off.

(in reply to Jetkopter)
       Post #: 184

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/20/2006 1:40:15 AM   
Eddie P



Posts: 678
Joined: 2/4/2003
From: Reno, NV, USA
Status: offline 		I think the best way it has ever been put to me, by those with much more experience in the aviation industry in it's infancy, was as follows: "Hey, you want a perfect safety record? Put the airplanes up on blocks and go stick your head in the sand. You want a really good safety record? Work hard, be proactive and always realize that safety is not the destination, but the journey..."

Safety... not a destination, but a journey. That means that safety is not a condition, but instead, a way of thinking and a way of making decisions. You are only as safe as your last decision and action. Our safety status is a very dynamic condition dependant upon individual decisions, accountability and honesty with ourselves.

It takes a lot of support, mentorship and leadership to create a culture that supports safety. Right now, the model community at large can get valuable safety leadership by the very grassroots membership that might look to someone else for direction. We all have to ask ourselves "why", and "what if" and "how can this be done better".

When we have a safe operaton, we have a fun day. We all got into this to have fun. A culture that values safety protects our ability to enjoy such an amazing little niche we all enjoy so much.

(in reply to EASYTIGER)
       Post #: 185

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/20/2006 3:14:18 AM   
ravill



Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/24/2003
From: Redwood, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey moderators,

What do you guys/gals think about making a list of safety points that are discussed throughout this thread on the first page so that all that see this thread can atleast have a guideline.....

Just a thought,

Here, I'll start it!

____________________________________

1. Safety is your responsibility.

2. Be aware of people around you, they, and you, can be unintendedly killed or hurt by your model.

3. If you have failsafe, set it to engine kill.

4. Consider using full aileron, full rudder and full elevator deflection upon failsafe. This may maximally slow your model down in a lockout situation, potentially saving human life and potentially minimizing damage to onboard electronics and powersource(s).

5. Always, ALWAYS double, and on busy days, triple check frequency assignments. As you turn on your transmitter, look at airborne models and assure yourself that no model has lost control. Remember, the model you save, may be your own.

6. Upon model failure such as flutter, loss of control surface, or other control issue, ALWAYS keep the option of intentionally grounding the model in a safe place as a viable option.

__________________________________________________


I've tried to keep them short and sweet and applicable to all models, props, park flyers and helicoptors. I really taken aback by people who think that their way is the only way to accomplish a goal, so I hope my rhetoric is not sounding like this!!(see my signature! )

Since it seems that the jet thread is the most popular, many beginners, including myself, have come to RCU for info. It seems logical that the most frequented thread have a safety thread at the top.

It may also seem logical to have a specific jet, scale, helicopter, car, boat, giant scale, IMAC safety section on each thread. I would have loved something like that when I was getting all of my safety equipment for my jets!

I hope I don't start a turf war, but if we all learn more about safety while arguing here on RCU (I love those ET vs "the world" posts, god that's funny ) I think we all win.

If people start dying with R/C then R/c as we know it will undoubtedly stop. That thought breaks my heart.

Thanks for listening,

Raf

_____________________________

RAVjets Demo Team. All We Do Is Fly.

(in reply to Eddie P)
       Post #: 186

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/20/2006 4:01:36 AM   
Silver182



Posts: 954
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

Unfortunatly Safety is not a sexy subject, if we had a safety forum only those who are already convinced would be the ones who read it. I would ask you all when was the last time you read your company safety manual or revised your own Health and Safety Policy, the majority will not have done anything in the last year, every time I mention Safety I meet with the same reaction, eyes go to the heaven and a fecisious comment about jobs for the boys, untill everyone accepts their responsibility for safety most of those avoidable accidents will still happen.

Some of the items I have learnt from this accident are:
Check frequency control whever its yours or someone else's.
Don't take it for granted that because its clear one minute it will be the next.
Fail safe has to be set to make the aircraft come down as quickly as possible.
If in unfamilier teritory double check everything.
All turns should be away from the out of bounds area, converging lines should be as shallow as possible.
Once any rules or regulations are in place do not recind any on the day.

Please add to these as you see fit.

Mike


I believe Mike is on the right track here.. he will be safer from now on.. are all of us listening and learning I hope so!

Cmjets wrote:
Hi all, in special to Stefan:


My condolences for the victims and spirit for my friend in this hard moment.


Best regards from Club de Aeromodelismo NIMBUS.

Well said:


I also send my condolences to the injured… and families of the victims.

To Stefan: I send my deepest sympathy for the regrettable situation you find yourself in. Please understand every one of us out here in the World of R/C also sends their deepest regrets. Do not take any of our second-guessing as a direct criticism. We are trying our best to understand how this type of accident might be avoided in the future.

Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099



(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 187

RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash - 5/20/2006 4:57:01 AM   
EASYTIGER


 

Posts: 7676
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline