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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there
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Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 6:19:04 AM   
skateflyer


 

Posts: 31
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Coquitlam, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Does anyone know the difference between Methonal and Metholhydrate, (spelling???)is there any?????
       Post #: 1

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 6:28:45 AM   
CP140



Posts: 801
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Nope... no difference apart from the name. Methanol=methyl hydrate

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       Post #: 2

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 6:48:16 AM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 6928
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		Albert, Martin,


The word 'methanol' (note correct spelling) has a couple (...) of synonyms...
...As you can see here.

It is an alcohol derived from the hydrocarbon 'methane', which is used as a gas for cooking in many countries.

In its chemical notation, methane is CH4 and methanol is CH3OH; a hydrogen atom (H) was replaced by a hydroxide (OH).

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RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 7:24:28 AM   
skateflyer


 

Posts: 31
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Coquitlam, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		OK thanks for the info. That means I should be able to buy inexpensive gallon of methal hydate at the local harware, add 20% oil and end up with something close to FAI fuel.

(in reply to DarZeelon)
       Post #: 4

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 8:57:26 AM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 6928
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		Albert,


Just make sure it is at least 99% pure... doesn't contain harmful/acidic impurities.


And 'methal hydate' is not one of the names used to describe methanol.

Make sure the spelling is correct before you buy it, because if it is not methanol (or any of its synonyms), your engine will not run!

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RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 1:15:41 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 2513
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		The cheap stuff is good for paint applications and degreasing, but is not pure enough for our glow engines.
You will get inferior fuel.

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       Post #: 6

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 1:48:42 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7448
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		H'mm, the fuel bought at the race track seems to be a LOT cheaper than from the hardware store. About half. I suggest you find a good source of methanol race fuel.

(in reply to pe reivers)
       Post #: 7

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 1:55:44 PM   
Turk1



Posts: 628
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Istanbul, TURKEY
Status: offline 		Hi,I am using industrial type methanol,directly pouring from 200 liter barrel.Wihout nitro and 20% full castor with OS A3 plug,Im having good power. Fuel costs me about 3$ per litre

< Message edited by Turk1 -- 5/18/2006 2:00:02 PM >

(in reply to pe reivers)
       Post #: 8

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 2:19:22 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7448
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Costs about the same as a gallon of gas in the US. About $3.00 per gallon. That is for race fuel. A gallon of wood alcohol is about $6.00.

(in reply to Turk1)
       Post #: 9

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 5/18/2006 2:34:24 PM   
Turk1



Posts: 628
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Istanbul, TURKEY
Status: offline 		Hi, dont forget Im talking for Turkish market.Here a commercial brand fuel such as 5% nitro comes about 9,5 $ per litre.If I want to buy one liter nitro,I have to pay about 110$.My methanol costs me a little more than 1 $.

< Message edited by Turk1 -- 5/18/2006 2:35:49 PM >

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       Post #: 10

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 6/2/2006 1:15:39 AM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I think you guys had better check the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. Methanol is wood alcohol, methyl alcohol, or methanol. It is an alcohol.

There is no such chemical as methyl hydrate listed in the handbook and there is a listing for all the thousands of organic chemicals. The suffix hydrate indicates there is a water molecule in the base compound. You see this in many rocks and minerals. Opal is one. It's formula is SiO2-nH2O. It is SiliconDioxide with an n number of water molecules bonded to the SiO2. SiO2 is common quartz.

If you add water to methanol, all you get is contaminated alcohol.

Methanol and methyl hydrate (whatever that is) are two different things.

Definition of a hydrate from the glossary of "Chemistry and Chemical Reactivity, third edition". "An ionic compound in which water molecules are trapped within the crystal lattice." Methanol is not an ionic compound and does not have a crystal lattice. It is not a hydrate.

That was your chemistry lesson for the day.

< Message edited by loughbd -- 6/2/2006 1:22:22 AM >

(in reply to Turk1)
       Post #: 11

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 6/2/2006 2:32:43 AM   
CP140



Posts: 801
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		True, the CRC does not list "Methyl Hydrate"... neither does the copy of the Merck Index I have. However... both are American publications and may overlook common or more antiquated names from the other side of the Atlantic.

I will refer you to the following link

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methyl_alcohol.html

and have attached the following scan of a bottle I have...



Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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       Post #: 12

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 6/2/2006 2:50:48 AM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Again, the definition of a hydrate is an ion with water as part of the crystal lattice. Alcohol doesn't have a crystal lattice and it isn't an ion. In a hydrate the water molecule latches onto the atom that is missing an electron in the lattice. Alcohol don't do dat. I can write Rolls Royce on a Yugo but that don't make it a Rolls.

< Message edited by loughbd -- 6/2/2006 3:45:24 AM >

(in reply to CP140)
       Post #: 13

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 6/2/2006 4:08:52 AM   
CP140



Posts: 801
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		I suspect methyl hydrate is one of the more antiquated names for methanol and/or not commonly used on this side of the world.

However, that does not detract from the fact that methanol and methyl hydrate are synonyms. ( I apologize to all of you IUPAC lovers out there. )

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/2001/2001_07_e.html

http://www.centrum-labs.com/mobile/Safety/MSDS/methanol.htm

http://www.mfa.org/_CAMEO/FRONTEND/material_description.asp?name=methyl+alcohol&language=1

http://www.recochem.com/english/products/faqs.html

Also, while your description of hydration is correct, there is (at least) one other definition.

http://www.iupac.org/goldbook/H02876.pdf



_____________________________

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

(in reply to loughbd)
       Post #: 14

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 6/2/2006 4:34:10 AM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		yeah we used to call it methyl, bethyl, difluminate hydride hydrox cookies

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       Post #: 15

RE: Glow fuel, for all the chemists out there - 6/2/2006 4:39:21 AM   
treedog



Posts: 506
Joined: 8/26/2004
From: Midway, AR, USA
Status: offline 		Methyl Hydrate
Is there a difference between Methyl Hydrate, Methanol, and Wood Alcohol?
Answer: There is no difference between these products; it is just a different name for the same thing.

Is there a difference between Denatured Alcohol and Methanol, or are they the same?
Answer: They are not the same, but in most workshop applications either one can be used. Otherwise, Denatured Alcohol is an ethanol-based product and is considered less toxic than Methanol. Check to see if the manufacturer specifies one in particular and follow the recommendation.

Where can I use Methyl Hydrate?
Answer: Methyl Hydrate, also known as Methanol and Wood Alcohol, is used as a fondue fuel, shellac thinner, gas line antifreeze, and, when mixed with water, as a powerful window cleaner