RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2- Building  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> ARF or RTF >> RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2- Building
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RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2- ... - 9/8/2006 1:37:39 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Two flights today. Still some left thrust but the balance was better after removing 7 Gm from the tail. Inverted flight required no elevator.

I added one more washer and now have 3* right thrust. I'll see how that works?? The problem is the cowl doesn't line-up any more?? I'll fix that if it fly's straight!

As I get more accustomed to the plane I'll reduce the expo. I don't like the delay on the controls.

Fly's great.

_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

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       Post #: 76

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2- ... - 9/8/2006 1:43:17 AM   
Tesla1856



Posts: 239
Joined: 7/31/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Watch those wing bolts.

As I get more comfortable flying the plane, I've been gradually trying more difficult maneuvers (flying it harder).

Well today, after 4 flights, the plane reacted strangely when coming in for it's last landing (dipped a wing badly and then stalled ... I almost lost it). Some how I recovered it, and landed it ok.

When cleaning up the plane and disassembling it, I found that all the wing bolts were very loose (all several turns out). One had even fallen completely out, and was in the tail. With only one very loose bolt on that side, that wing was rocking back-n-forth pretty bad.



_____________________________

Vince (Tesla) ... http://www.vlsdynamics.com/rc
FourStar40 .46 / P51 Mustang .46 / Edge540 Saito1.25

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       Post #: 77

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/8/2006 1:52:19 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Were they real tight when you assembled the plane?
I make them real tight since their breakaway feature is not much good if you crash a wing first. There won't be much left.

I have found these breakaways are great for landing gear and a single wing A/C. The gear and wing can come off without too much damage to the fuse??

_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

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       Post #: 78

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2- ... - 9/8/2006 2:44:55 AM   
Tesla1856



Posts: 239
Joined: 7/31/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I'm glad you at least tried a more normal balance point (basically bringing the CG forward a bit) ... I was pretty sure you would like it better, at least for now.

I think it's sort of like the thrust issues and some other things we have come across ... some of the finer details of the plane's setup are missing or inaccurate in the manual. Luckily it comes out pretty close, but it can be improved.

_____________________________

Vince (Tesla) ... http://www.vlsdynamics.com/rc
FourStar40 .46 / P51 Mustang .46 / Edge540 Saito1.25

(in reply to TomTreese)
       Post #: 79

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/8/2006 3:02:13 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I think, that when I get into 3D flying I'll want to move it back again but your correct for now you want it more foreword. I'm sure that's why I tip-satlled on the first flight. The CG was too far back and I couldn't get the nose down. The glide path today was perfect. I have been adding a click of down trim on approach. This helps keep the nose down with the speed that I'm approaching.

Thanks for all the interaction. It has helped a lot.


_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

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       Post #: 80

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/8/2006 6:06:46 PM   
mstam


 

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Miami, FL, USA
Status: offline 		About the thrust angle.
If your plane isn't flying straight after a minimum of trim something else is wrong.

the best way to check the thrust angle is by flying straight up. If it goes to the left, you need more right thrust and vise versa.
See image of my new Mojo. The manual says 2.5 degrees but this turned out to be too much so I reduced it to 1.5 degrees. 4-strokes need more right thrust, engines with higher pitch props need more right thrust and so on.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to TomTreese)
       Post #: 81

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/8/2006 8:03:18 PM   
Tesla1856



Posts: 239
Joined: 7/31/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, very tight like always. I even bounce the wing a bit to get that last little bit.

A few times before I have found 1 or 2 or the 4 bolts would loosen 1/4 to 1/2 turn or so, but nothing like this. On the other hand, this was the first time I flew 4 flights in a row, and did this many maneuvers in one day at the field.

I've researched this problem on the board, and it's pretty common (as you might imagine). Some of the more popular fixes are various kinds of rubber and plastic washers (and lock-washers), different bolts, silicone tubing, loctite, and PVC tape. Some of these may work, but I bet they have all been known to fail at some point. Bolts loosen with vibration and that's a fact.

Still not sure which one I will try first.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTreese

Were they real tight when you assembled the plane?




_____________________________

Vince (Tesla) ... http://www.vlsdynamics.com/rc
FourStar40 .46 / P51 Mustang .46 / Edge540 Saito1.25

(in reply to TomTreese)
       Post #: 82

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/9/2006 1:20:34 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I tested the thrust on a vertical climb and it was noticeably left. Today with 3 washers(3 degrees right thrust) it tracked straight up as well as straight down the runway at all speeds. All three flights were very good.

_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

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       Post #: 83

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/9/2006 1:37:32 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Vince, I would try some kind of soft washer to help cushion the vibration and reduce the probability of rotation. I use a small piece of fuel tube as a washer on all my canopy and cowl screws. I put it between the washer and the cowl so I can tighten it down without damaging the cowl and it reduces the vibration and the screws do not work loose. I'm going to put some thin foam on mine although in three flights today tey were still tight. It sound like you may have quite a bit of vibration????

Three flights today with 3 degrees of right thrust and it tracked well both in vertical and horizontal. I tried some 3D stuff and it was fun. I definitely will continue to reduce the Expo. Knife-edges are easier with out Expo.

I think I have the CG correct, as it requires no elevator either inverted or right-side up. It's tough to not add any as you go inverted. When you do it will climb. This airframe definitely goes where it's pointed and that's great. Right now my tendencies are to over control it.

_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

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RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/11/2006 1:23:51 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I flew four Edge flight Saturday and all was well. I'm getting more comfortable with the plane.

I went out today,Sunday, and my radio problems have returned?????? Why, after 14 flights??? When I get over 12 feet from the plane and work the aileron and elevator together the rudder goes crazy. If I unplug the elevator it goes away. I think it's the S10 servo reverser???? Tonight I twisted the lines, from the servo to the little box several times and the flutter stopped?????? When I tried it again it fluttered again but the battery was low. I try again tomorrow with the new 1100 mAh battery. If it doesn't work I'll change the reverser cord, then start with each servo??? VARY FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

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       Post #: 85

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/11/2006 1:42:38 AM   
mstam


 

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Miami, FL, USA
Status: offline 		What radio are you using? A good radio system is of course very important, but I don't have to tell you that. Even the cheapest Futaba and JR's have servo reversing.
See if you have any moving metal on metal parts. I can recall the elevator stabilizer rods use metal clevises on alumium and brass. Disconnect and see if it helps. If so, replace for nylon clevises.

(in reply to TomTreese)
       Post #: 86

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/11/2006 1:49:24 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I am using a Futaba T6EXAP, which, doesn't have servo reversing. I'm looking at a Futaba 7 CAP. What is the advantage of PCM over FM????

I have tried two other Txs three Rxs another channel. The only thing that stops it so far is disconnecting the evelator untill I tried twisting the wires???? I'll check out the reverser tomorrow.

_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

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       Post #: 87

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/11/2006 2:07:44 AM   
mstam


 

Posts: 90
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Miami, FL, USA
Status: offline 		If you can affort it go for a 9 Super series Futuba. they'll last you for 5 years. I bought a 2nd hand JR 8103 over for $125 incl. PCM module. A club member the standard 9 series with plane and servos for $250 from an older man!

The Futaba 9CAPS PCM. There's a regular and a super series. This is the super.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Futaba-9CAPS-9-Channel-PCM-Super-RADIO-AIRPLAE-HELI_W0QQitemZ6047015181QQihZ009QQcategoryZ44028QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But disconnect the stabilizer rods first and see if that helps (with the engine running!). Replacing any metal on metal clevises with nylon ones is a good idea anyway.

PCM = much higher resolution and programmable fail save
If you get a new radio always get one with a PCM module. Once you start flying better and need fast and accurate servos PCM is also required because FM can't handle the speeds of some digital servos. I use PCM receivers on my Funtana 90 and Mojo with 0.10 seconds and 0.08 seconds digital servos. I'm flying 2 years and have never had one single radio problem, not even a glitch.

(in reply to TomTreese)
       Post #: 88

RE: Seagull Edge 540 - 68" (60-90) ARF New v2-... - 9/11/2006 2:10:30 AM   
TomTreese


 

Posts: 427
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Status: offline 		In reference to servo reversing. I don't see and Transmitters with the ability to reverse two servos on the same channel till the Futaba 9CAP for $450.00

I have the same electronics as Vince and he's not having a problem????

_____________________________

Insanity: Keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

(in reply to TomTreese)