Will one fuel do it all?  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Will one fuel do it all?
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Will one fuel do it all? - 5/30/2006 3:14:35 AM   
olgoat


 

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Round Rock, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I have a GMS 76 2 stroke which I use Power Master 10% nitro with 18% syn/Castor oil mix, YS91 and Saito56 that I use Power Master YS/Saito 20/20 all syn and recently bought an OS 91 4 stroke that according to the instruction the fuel I use in my GMS 76 is acceptable. Is there a fuel that I can use in all of my engines? Can I use all synthetic in a 2 stroke?

Thanks in advance,
Lonnie

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Normal people say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Engineers say "If it ain't broke, needs more options
       Post #: 1

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 6/5/2006 5:18:38 PM   
KC36330


 

Posts: 2467
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		i use Morgans (Cool Power) 30% Heli fuel in all my glow engines (2-stroke/4-stroke planks or helis), it's all synthetic and gives great performance and life in all engines I've used over the past 16+ yrs in this hobby with the exception of one.........a K&B engine, the only way i got that engine to run right was with a Castor based fuel, it wasn't the best engine in the world so i ditched it and replaced it with an OS and solved that problem.

kc

(in reply to olgoat)
       Post #: 2

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 6/6/2006 6:13:36 AM   
olgoat


 

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Round Rock, TX, USA
Status: offline 		kc,

Thank you for the info, I believe I'll switch to all syn. fuel, carrying 2 or 3 different cans of fuel really sucks.

Lonnie

_____________________________

Normal people say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Engineers say "If it ain't broke, needs more options

(in reply to KC36330)
       Post #: 3

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 6/6/2006 6:57:49 AM   
KC36330


 

Posts: 2467
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline 		it makes life allot simpler when you got a 1 does all for your glow engines. I've still got another fuel container for the 100 octane low lead aviation gas for the gassers but it's not that big of a deal between just those two. good luck and enjoy the flying.

kc

(in reply to olgoat)
       Post #: 4

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 6/6/2006 8:53:05 AM   
Cyberwolf



Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/10/2004
From: Blackfoot , ID, USA
Status: offline 		Hello I seen the post and thought I would drop a line saying what I have been using for several yrs WO any probs .
I run 15 % nitro with 20 total oil 3% of it is castor .Normally this fuel is 18 % oil all syn but I have it mixed with the extra oil for my 4 strokes so I can take just one jug with me at a time .So far all of my engines have liked this brew with out any bearing failures or scored cyl walls or pistons ,although I can get more out of the 4 strokes with more nitro ,I feel why prematurely wear out a $ 3-500 engine when I don't really need the extra HP.
MY gassers I use a amsoil 80-1 mix with great results .

Oh just for the record When done flying for the day I always drain the tank then run the engine and whats left in the tank dry and if its not going to be used for any length of time I will add a after run oil ,my choice is just plain old ATF ,with the exception of the YS brand .
Hope this helps Happy Landings.

_____________________________

I've learned that you cannot compare yourself to others -they are more screwed up than you think.

(in reply to KC36330)
       Post #: 5

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 6/6/2006 9:11:22 AM   
KC36330


 

Posts: 2467
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyberwolf

............,I feel why prematurely wear out a $ 3-500 engine when I don't really need the extra HP.


I'll bet you that my running the higher nitro with more power but running cooler will last longer then your lower powered hot running engine. heat is the death of an engine not RPM (within the Recommended Range). I've got an OS 70 surpass that swings a 10x10 APC at just over 10 grand with the 30% fuel, it's 7+ yrs old and runs just as good today as it did when it was new, it's still all original and has only had the valves adjusted once after initial break-in. my flying partner has a Saito 45 that never misses a tic and been running 30% for i know the past 10 yrs (the engine is conciderably older then that but ran 15% prior to the 30%)

understand that Nitro is one of the few things in life (just mentioned this in another post about the same subject the other day) that IS a 'Win Win' situation. not only is it a power boosting product it's also a cooling agent. in all other instances of engines more power means more heat, this is not the case with nitro. you can however get to a to high a percentage and get pre-ignition which is detrimental to an engine as it over stresses the con-rod but this isn't the case in any of the 4-strokes running 30% and only a very few cases with 2 stroke applications (heli's and ducted fans) but these few cases can be cured by adding a head shim to lower compression.

and just for giggles, Castor is not recommended in 4-strokes due to the carbon deposits and build up on the exhaust valve(s) although allot of your 4-stroke fuels are a Castor/Synthetic blend.

kc



< Message edited by KC36330 -- 6/6/2006 9:13:54 AM >

(in reply to Cyberwolf)
       Post #: 6

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 6/9/2006 11:18:29 PM   
Dr Nitro


 

Posts: 162
Joined: 11/12/2002
From: The Great Midwest, USA
Status: offline 		I run just about anything I have laying around in just about anything I have. From FAI all castor fuel to Control line blends to 30% and 40% fuels for my helis.
All it normaly takes is retuning the engine and possibly changing glow plugs on any of a bunch of different engines.
Of course, I don't run high nitro in my MVVS or Rossi engines or anything under 20% in my YS's. Pretty much anything else is adjust and fly.
Do not be afraid of a little castor in your fuel, it will do no harm to your YS or other 4 strokes, as long as it is in small quantities.

_____________________________

Dr Nitro

(in reply to KC36330)
       Post #: 7

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 6/10/2006 3:58:01 AM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I use one fuel for all my glow engines except my tartan. 10% nitro, 20% castor oil.

If you use straight synthetic get ready to replace bearings on a regular basis.

(in reply to Dr Nitro)
       Post #: 8

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 8/30/2006 3:54:57 AM   
Cyberwolf



Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/10/2004
From: Blackfoot , ID, USA
Status: offline 		Go here and read what all they say about nitro contentand heat . www.rcaircraftprovinggrounds.com this is just one of many .If this doesn't convince you I suggest you get a temp gage and do some experimenting yourself.
And FYI I don't run my engines hot ever.
As far as using a little Castor in my fuel ,carbon is easier to clean than paying for new parts but so far theres never been any need to clean squat. I to have engines well over 15 yrs old that still run and look as good as new
Oh please keep on using that 30 % in your 2 strokes ,I hear that sales are down .

< Message edited by Cyberwolf -- 8/30/2006 8:11:47 AM >

_____________________________

I've learned that you cannot compare yourself to others -they are more screwed up than you think.

(in reply to KC36330)
       Post #: 9

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 8/31/2006 12:59:48 PM   
KC36330


 

Posts: 2467
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyberwolf

Go here and read what all they say about nitro contentand heat . www.rcaircraftprovinggrounds.com this is just one of many .If this doesn't convince you I suggest you get a temp gage and do some experimenting yourself.


Not sure who you're so hostile toward but, i have done the testing and when you tach an engine with FAI (0 nitro) and take a temp reading after it has stabilized, then take 30% nitro and prop the engine so you get the SAME RPM (you have to keep the RPM the same or your add in heat from friction as a major contributor) you'll find the 30% runs the same engine considerably cooler at the same RPMs.

quote:

And FYI I don't run my engines hot ever.
As far as using a little Castor in my fuel ,carbon is easier to clean than paying for new parts......


why on earth would you ever need new parts, you just said you do not run your engines hot, Castor serves its only strength at that critical point during an engine run, if it never got hot (ran lean) then you will never gain any benefit from using the Castor.

quote:

....... but so far theres never been any need to clean squat. I to have engines well over 15 yrs old that still run and look as good as new


if you've ran any engine for any amount of time with Castor oil in the fuel there will ALWAYS be a brown carbon build up on the engine, you can't avoid it, and if by some miracle you have ran an engine for 15 yrs, hell even 15 min, with a Castor based fuel and it 'still looks as good as new' then your the only person in the entire world who has and you have some tinker bell fairy protecting the engine from the Castor build up.

quote:

Oh please keep on using that 30 % in your 2 strokes ,I hear that sales are down .


Thank you I will, it's worked without a single problem for close to 20 yrs and the only staining/tarnishing i have out of the 30% all synthetic is from the red dye used in the coloration of the fuel, it has a tendency to dye the piston/sleeve/etc.. but causes no interference with performance or longevity.

kc


(in reply to Cyberwolf)
       Post #: 10

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 8/31/2006 4:12:56 PM   
Cyberwolf



Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/10/2004
From: Blackfoot , ID, USA
Status: offline 		Here we go again energy makes heat, more energy makes more heat ,more nitro won't cool off a engine more oil will.
I guess all the fuel facts are wrong and fuelman plus everyone else thats made posts on this subject are wrong as well.
I don't think so .

I'm not hostal at anyone but I don't like you coming on here and saying how my engine wont last like yours due to the fact I am over heating them running the proper fuel thats recomended by the manufacture.

I seen a man take a new 160 OS after break in and use 30% fuel in it ,it lasted 3 less than tanks and seized up due to over heating BTW it was properly tuned .So you do what you want but leave me alone for doing what I feel is right by my engines.

The OP was can a person run one fuel and I told the man yes I have been for quite some time .Then you pop in here and say how my engine wont last as long as yours which has nothing to do with the original OP question in the first place .
If you was trying to be helpful and I took it the wrong way i'm sorry.
We do agree on one thing heat kills engines .
And using more nitro does make higher cylinder pressure,advances the timing ,higher exhaust temps, these things lead to higher operating temps .

Heres one of my older engines than ran 20 plus gallons of fuel thru it .Still runs letter perfect and looks new and has never seen a antifreeze bath .

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by Cyberwolf -- 8/31/2006 4:42:47 PM >

_____________________________

I've learned that you cannot compare yourself to others -they are more screwed up than you think.

(in reply to KC36330)
       Post #: 11

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 8/31/2006 7:04:06 PM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Nitro is added to increase power. It does it by acting as an oxidizer. This generates more heat and heat results directly in more power.

As far as what's the best fuel, it's like asking what is the best automobile. Ask ten people and you will get ten answers. It's a fool's question.

Yes, as you said, you can pretty much use one fuel for most glow engines. I use 10% nitro, 20% castor oil and 70% methanol in all my glow engines except theTartans and the YS's. Notice I said 20% castor oil. That's what I run in my 4 cycles too. I almost never have to take one apart to clean carbon out of them. Yes they tend to turn brown inside but they don't burn up and my bearings NEVER rust. I have a Saito 45 with the BOLT ON HEAD that I bought over 25 years ago. I finally had to change bearings in it. They actually finally wore out. No rust, just worn out. That engine has been in constant use since I bought it in Japan. One set of bearings in 25 years and valve cleaning maybe twice in the same time frame. That's why I use castor oil as my lube. Synthetic is OK as long as you add some castor, maybe 2 to 5%. Just like Clarence Lee does.

Any good commercial fuel is fine. If the fuel was no good, the company wouldn't be in business.

To all of you that would like to read what THE model engine man (Clarence Lee) has to say about nitro methane and fuel in general, get a copy of his book, The R/C Engine, Vol III. Then look on page 40, Chapter 5.

Here is a little quote from that section by Lee. "In the final analysis we might quote from a long time West Coast engine expert, Luke Roy, who states: "Adding nitromethane to fuel can solve overheating problems...when the engine seizes up, it'll cool off"."

I will continue to use castor oil and moderate nitro and run our engines until the cows come home.

Bruce Loughridge
AMA 13797 since 1956

Moderator removed a couple paragraphs....

< Message edited by w8ye -- 9/4/2006 4:15:10 AM >

(in reply to Cyberwolf)
       Post #: 12

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 9/1/2006 12:06:03 AM   
Rcpilot


 

Posts: 6412
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I use Omega 5% in all my engines. I've been running that fuel for about 6yrs. I put it in everything from old worn out 40SF engines up to OS 4-strokes and TT 4-strokes. I've run it in Moki 1.35, Moki 1.80 and the 2.10 I've run it in the MDS 1.48 and the MDS 2.18. I've run it in ALL the Big Cats from the 2000 all the way up to the 4500 (Thats Super Tigre for you newbies--and YES, it IS spelled T I G R E and NOT T I G E R) I've run that fuel in every engine I've owned since 1999.

17% oil. 30% castor and 70% synthetic

Haven't cooked one yet. I buy 5% 'cause I'm cheap. I used to run 10% and even 15% sometimes--but just don't see the need for it anymore. I put big enough engines on my planes that I'm not looking for absolute max power or max RPM out of each engine. I usually overpower my planes by at least 50% over the factory recommended size. Sometimes I've got twice the max recommended engine on a plane.

Keep in mind that my glow planes are small 40 size 3D planes. Most have a .75 engine--thats on 40 and 46 size planes.

When you have that much HP hanging off the firewall--5% works just fine.

I did run a gallon of 20% nitro through a Tower Hobbies .75 once. It was neat and had rediculous power, but not worth the price at $24 a gallon.

For just normal sport flying--use 5% or 10%. Anymore than that is a waste of money.

Start competing in pattern or racing or something else where prizes and money are on the line--I'd probably jump way up to 30% fuel. But for Sunday flying--anything more than 10% is wasted money.

If your flying a brick with an old Royal .40 and you need 40% nitro to get it off a 600' runway--knuckle up and buy a new motor you cheap turkey.

_____________________________

Airplanes have expiration dates. It''s just not printed anywhere on them.
I''m not really an airplane pilot; but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

(in reply to Cyberwolf)
       Post #: 13

RE: Will one fuel do it all? - 9/1/2006 3:00:46 AM   
KC36330


 

Posts: 2467
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyberwolf

Here we go again energy makes heat, more energy makes more heat ,more nitro won't cool off a engine more oil will.
I guess all the fuel facts are wrong and fuelman plus everyone else thats made posts on this subject are wrong as well.
I don't think so .


and the guys/gals a few blocks from my house who MFG Morgan Fuel and the club members that have done their testing from day one are wrong too huh??? very unlikely.

quote:

I'm not hostal at anyone but I don't like you coming on here and saying how my engine wont last like yours due to the fact I am over heating them running the proper fuel thats recomended by the manufacture.


No, that was you with your 'I feel why prematurely wear out a $ 3-500 engine when I don't really need the extra HP.' comment.

quote:

I seen a man take a new 160 OS after break in and use 30% fuel in it ,it lasted 3 less than tanks and seized up due to over heating BTW it was properly tuned .


how ignorant must one be to realize, if it overheated, it wasn't 'properly tuned' overheating was caused by either to little ventilation over the engine/head or it