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RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/5/2006 11:48:18 PM   
mattnin



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From: grand junction, CO, USA
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If 22 podium finishes is true, then the truck must handle well. I race twice a week and if I am given a poorly handling car, it won't make a difference how much I try. I could be pushing or sliding too much going into turns, pushing or sliding too much at the apex of the turn, pushing or sliding too much exiting a turn, or twitching as I am accelerating on a straight.

There are so many factors that go into making a car handle great. First is the tires, thats 90% of the handling problem right there. Then the damping/spring factor of the shocks, it has to be tuned to conform to the majority of the track. Then minor adjustments like the adjusting the wheelbase to gain or lose the majority of the traction that I will need, adjusting camber links, camber, anti-squat, ackermann, and caster to fine tune corner entry and exiting steering and rear traction.

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(in reply to Raketemensch)
       Post #: 101

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 2:49:14 AM   
timnikko


 

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ok listen and listen good i will explain this oncether are three types of heat transfer ,conduction,convection and radiation lets concentrate on rad and conduction when heat radiatesit travels as an infared wave this wave can travel through a vacume and is the means by witch the sun heats the earth the most efficeint radiators are black because they emit radiation at all frequencies,,colors such as purple and blue emit radiation on those colors onlyand are comparatively inefficent,,, conduction is whereheat is passed on from one atom to another by means of agitation.one atom gets agitated by heat and this causes the surronding atoms to also be agitated and heat is conducted through the material materials where atoms are closed together (metals) are dense and this makes them good conductors of heat..so with that said when a car is being driven the heat sink is doing nothing, the majority of cooling (over 95%) is through air flow through the motor cut out so if you covet it guess what no air flow,,shiny objects reflect heat while matted objects absorb heat and radiate heat in the little gap between the motor and the heat sink heat will trasfer and cause inefficient cooling so in the end a heatsink will actually make a motor heat up faster and run hotter but it will cool downfaster after the run so does the heatsink work like you think,,, so you are a rust engineer well just a little about me i have worked on everything from a-6 ,,ea-6b,,p-3,, ch53 ,f-14and a-10's those are aircraft,,j-52 ,t-56 are jet and turbo prop jet engines, i have also worked in the field of NDI,,, i am a cerified auto mech and heavy truck mech i also tune and own a blown injected alcohol boat so i am somewhat educated and mecahnically inclined and the test was done on a motor with an infared heat gun

(in reply to mattnin)
       Post #: 102

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 2:56:39 AM   
R/C fan-addict



Posts: 3589
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From: Belmont, MA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timnikko

ok listen and listen good i will explain this oncether are three types of heat transfer ,conduction,convection and radiation lets concentrate on rad and conduction when heat radiatesit travels as an infared wave this wave can travel through a vacume and is the means by witch the sun heats the earth the most efficeint radiators are black because they emit radiation at all frequencies,,colors such as purple and blue emit radiation on those colors onlyand are comparatively inefficent,,, conduction is whereheat is passed on from one atom to another by means of agitation.one atom gets agitated by heat and this causes the surronding atoms to also be agitated and heat is conducted through the material materials where atoms are closed together (metals) are dense and this makes them good conductors of heat..so with that said when a car is being driven the heat sink is doing nothing, the majority of cooling (over 95%) is through air flow through the motor cut out so if you covet it guess what no air flow,,shiny objects reflect heat while matted objects absorb heat and radiate heat in the little gap between the motor and the heat sink heat will trasfer and cause inefficient cooling so in the end a heatsink will actually make a motor heat up faster and run hotter but it will cool downfaster after the run so does the heatsink work like you think,,, so you are a rust engineer well just a little about me i have worked on everything from a-6 ,,ea-6b,,p-3,, ch53 ,f-14and a-10's those are aircraft,,j-52 ,t-56 are jet and turbo prop jet engines, i have also worked in the field of NDI,,, i am a cerified auto mech and heavy truck mech i also tune and own a blown injected alcohol boat so i am somewhat educated and mecahnically inclined and the test was done on a motor with an infared heat gun


ok while I can't possibly match your degree of knowledge since I'm 13 I have to ask why do they then put heatsinks on computers with a fan right next to it? I think the idea behind it is that the heat will very efficiently be transferred to the heatsink through conduction. Then air rushes through the fins on the heatsink and picks up the heat and carries it away. Some people use thermal paste between the heatsink and the motor can to better transfer the heat. When you said that a motor gets cooled by having air rush through the holes in it, how is the heat picked up? Exactly the same idea is applied to the heatsink only the heatsink has a larger area and therefore rids the motor of heat faster and more efficiently and thus you get a cooler running motor.

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(in reply to timnikko)
       Post #: 103

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 3:27:27 AM   
mattnin



Posts: 774
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From: grand junction, CO, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timnikko

ok listen and listen good i will explain this oncether are three types of heat transfer ,conduction,convection and radiation lets concentrate on rad and conduction when heat radiatesit travels as an infared wave this wave can travel through a vacume and is the means by witch the sun heats the earth the most efficeint radiators are black because they emit radiation at all frequencies,,colors such as purple and blue emit radiation on those colors onlyand are comparatively inefficent,,, conduction is whereheat is passed on from one atom to another by means of agitation.one atom gets agitated by heat and this causes the surronding atoms to also be agitated and heat is conducted through the material materials where atoms are closed together (metals) are dense and this makes them good conductors of heat..so with that said when a car is being driven the heat sink is doing nothing, the majority of cooling (over 95%) is through air flow through the motor cut out so if you covet it guess what no air flow,,shiny objects reflect heat while matted objects absorb heat and radiate heat in the little gap between the motor and the heat sink heat will trasfer and cause inefficient cooling so in the end a heatsink will actually make a motor heat up faster and run hotter but it will cool downfaster after the run so does the heatsink work like you think,,, so you are a rust engineer well just a little about me i have worked on everything from a-6 ,,ea-6b,,p-3,, ch53 ,f-14and a-10's those are aircraft,,j-52 ,t-56 are jet and turbo prop jet engines, i have also worked in the field of NDI,,, i am a cerified auto mech and heavy truck mech i also tune and own a blown injected alcohol boat so i am somewhat educated and mecahnically inclined and the test was done on a motor with an infared heat gun


I think you are very educated and you sound very intelligent sir. I think we are arguing about two different things.

The motor you see in my picture, the truck with the 4 wheel steering, has no openings for air flow at all. All of its heat is dissapated through heat sink. This is the way the motor came from the factory. I cannot comment on R?rebreeds motor. I do not know if he is covering up an air duct.

A heat sink works, otherwise it would have been a useless invention like tire chains for motorcyles. Also, rc-fan-addict brings up a good point; people put thermal conductive paste between their motor and heat sink for even more efficient heat transfer.

I agree with timnikko, do not put a heat sink on your motor if you end up covering air ducts.

_____________________________

Tekin RS Pro, R1 Pro, Xray T2 007, FT B4 & T4, E-Maxx 4-link 4WS, TLT SW3 4-link 2.2 class http://www.arcadechamp.net/radio

(in reply to timnikko)
       Post #: 104

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 3:44:39 AM   
Rare



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From: USA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mattnin

quote:

ORIGINAL: timnikko

ok listen and listen good i will explain this oncether are three types of heat transfer ,conduction,convection and radiation lets concentrate on rad and conduction when heat radiatesit travels as an infared wave this wave can travel through a vacume and is the means by witch the sun heats the earth the most efficeint radiators are black because they emit radiation at all frequencies,,colors such as purple and blue emit radiation on those colors onlyand are comparatively inefficent,,, conduction is whereheat is passed on from one atom to another by means of agitation.one atom gets agitated by heat and this causes the surronding atoms to also be agitated and heat is conducted through the material materials where atoms are closed together (metals) are dense and this makes them good conductors of heat..so with that said when a car is being driven the heat sink is doing nothing, the majority of cooling (over 95%) is through air flow through the motor cut out so if you covet it guess what no air flow,,shiny objects reflect heat while matted objects absorb heat and radiate heat in the little gap between the motor and the heat sink heat will trasfer and cause inefficient cooling so in the end a heatsink will actually make a motor heat up faster and run hotter but it will cool downfaster after the run so does the heatsink work like you think,,, so you are a rust engineer well just a little about me i have worked on everything from a-6 ,,ea-6b,,p-3,, ch53 ,f-14and a-10's those are aircraft,,j-52 ,t-56 are jet and turbo prop jet engines, i have also worked in the field of NDI,,, i am a cerified auto mech and heavy truck mech i also tune and own a blown injected alcohol boat so i am somewhat educated and mecahnically inclined and the test was done on a motor with an infared heat gun


I think you are very educated and you sound very intelligent sir. I think we are arguing about two different things.

The motor you see in my picture, the truck with the 4 wheel steering, has no openings for air flow at all. All of its heat is dissapated through heat sink. This is the way the motor came from the factory. I cannot comment on R?rebreeds motor. I do not know if he is covering up an air duct.

A heat sink works, otherwise it would have been a useless invention like tire chains for motorcyles. Also, rc-fan-addict brings up a good point; people put thermal conductive paste between their motor and heat sink for even more efficient heat transfer.

I agree with timnikko, do not put a heat sink on your motor if you end up covering air ducts.


NOPE! I aint covering any vents or ducts with my heatsink. There both SS series brushless motors.

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(in reply to mattnin)
       Post #: 105

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 4:10:07 AM   
sleepy23



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From: Maryville, TN,
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timnikko

ok listen and listen good i will explain this oncether are three types of heat transfer ,conduction,convection and radiation lets concentrate on rad and conduction when heat radiatesit travels as an infared wave this wave can travel through a vacume and is the means by witch the sun heats the earth the most efficeint radiators are black because they emit radiation at all frequencies,,colors such as purple and blue emit radiation on those colors onlyand are comparatively inefficent,,, conduction is whereheat is passed on from one atom to another by means of agitation.one atom gets agitated by heat and this causes the surronding atoms to also be agitated and heat is conducted through the material materials where atoms are closed together (metals) are dense and this makes them good conductors of heat..so with that said when a car is being driven the heat sink is doing nothing, the majority of cooling (over 95%) is through air flow through the motor cut out so if you covet it guess what no air flow,,shiny objects reflect heat while matted objects absorb heat and radiate heat in the little gap between the motor and the heat sink heat will trasfer and cause inefficient cooling so in the end a heatsink will actually make a motor heat up faster and run hotter but it will cool downfaster after the run so does the heatsink work like you think,,, so you are a rust engineer well just a little about me i have worked on everything from a-6 ,,ea-6b,,p-3,, ch53 ,f-14and a-10's those are aircraft,,j-52 ,t-56 are jet and turbo prop jet engines, i have also worked in the field of NDI,,, i am a cerified auto mech and heavy truck mech i also tune and own a blown injected alcohol boat so i am somewhat educated and mecahnically inclined and the test was done on a motor with an infared heat gun


depends on what type of heat sink used.. if you have a clip on sink that is in direct contact with the motor can, you WILL see cooling benefits due to the increase in surface area. now granted, the anodized coating will effect the thermal conductivity, but it will be minimum. the coating is really just for the bling factor. the more fins, then the cooling efficiency will increase within limits. when you have a small gap, you do loose efficieny due to the conductivity of the air barrier. the gap will defiantly hurt the performance but will produce some results. now for me, this applies to brushless cuz brushed motors suck and i care nothing about their cooling. those are just the proven theories of heat transfer...

hey isnt it funny how these types of threads always turn into a pound you chest display

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RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 4:14:42 AM   
timnikko


 

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yes they do,,,,, i just wanted to make my point clear,,,,,no bashing or hate,,, and brushed motors do suck we can agree on that thats why i put the novak 4.5 brushless in my sons rustler i do have a 12 turn brushed in my losi and he kicks my butt up and down the street i am going brushless soon

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       Post #: 107

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 4:23:56 AM   
-Inverted-



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quote:

and brushed motors do suck


I like brushed lol.

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       Post #: 108

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 5:52:36 AM   
timnikko


 

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ok sorry for saying they suck i just dont like the maintinace that goes along with them but from what i have seen and heard they are faster than the brushless as far as modified goes they say the novak 8.5 is as fast as a modified 27 turn brushed

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       Post #: 109

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 5:58:25 AM   
Haulin Azz



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ya right the ss5800 would beat a 15 tuen mod motor probbaly easy a ss4300 would even smoke a 27 probably even a 19. I also hate brushed maitenence thats why I can't wait to get my brushless this week hopefully by thursday!

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RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 6:01:19 AM   
-Inverted-



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I like both brushed and brushless, I own both and feel they each have their own purposes.

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RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 6:23:45 AM   
timnikko


 

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well talk to charlie down at novak and ask him he is there tech and he will explain it better everywhere i went i asked how fast is the ss5800 and everyone told me about as fast as a modified race 27turn that is why i spent the $254 and bought the 4.5 so if you know better than the people that build and test them i will start coming to you for advice so what gear should i run with the 4.5 charlie told me what he suggest so what do you

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       Post #: 112

RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 6:25:23 AM   
-Inverted-



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Are you talking to me?

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RE: Project: Race Rustler - 6/6/2006 6:27:52 AM   
Haulin Azz



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ther is no 27 i know of that will get my xxx-bk1 aroud 40mph but the 5800 will becausew it goes around 36 in a pede and my buggy is more efficient

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