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Koveral Appication

Old 06-04-2006, 05:37 AM
  #1  
Michel
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Default Koveral Appication

Hi Their

I have an Lt-40 which came out too heavy because I layed balsa sheeting on it . So I decided to rebuild the tail surfaces to original
spec s . I am going to cover it with Koveral and Dope . I have purchased the nitrate and butyrate dope , along with stix-it This is my problem .

If I apply the Koveral with the nitrate do I do the edges first , or do I overlap the edges with the Koveral . And if I use the stix-it , do I use a heat iron to apply the Koveral than apply the butyrate and when do I use the heat iron on the Koveral . As you con see I m missing the proper procedure . If anyone knows of a site that has this info , it would be a great help . I have already E-mailed Sig to try and get this info and am waiting for an answer . The cans do have some info , but not all the info that I need . I don t even know what sand paper to use . This is my first kit that I am building and it was purchased for the reason , to learn how to build .

Any help on this subject would be appreciated


Take care and support the troops .


Mike
Old 06-04-2006, 07:11 AM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

How heavy is "too heavy"? My thought would be to use a covering material and method that I would probably use on future kit builds. Personally, I can't see myself going back to the days of dope and covering(many planes to build yet, so we'll see)! I can't imagine that iron on covering would be that much heavier than Koverall and dope. If you put a good .46 engine on the plane, you should be fine. Good luck.
Old 06-04-2006, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Here's what Sig says about it:
http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar...Menu_02None_01
Old 06-04-2006, 07:17 AM
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jlkonn
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Well shoot!
The link didn't copy correctly.
If you search the site you will find the description and recommended method of application for Koverall.
JLK
Old 06-04-2006, 09:10 AM
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amilder
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Why don't you follow the directions that come with the Koverall? They are short, but they answer most of the questions you asked. Apply at least one coat of nitrate dope, although Sig recommends two. You can thin the dope it up to 50% and add talc for filler if you like. Sand smooth, use like 220-240 grit. Then apply the Stix-it, let it dry, and iron on the Koverall. Use just enough heat to get the glue to stick well and no more. Cover the tail parts with two pieces, apply to one side, then trim the edges, then apply the other side, trim, use more stix-it on the seam, let dry, and iron it down. The use the iron and shrink it tight. A little more heat may be needed but be careful, Koverall will shrink a great deal and with a lot of force, it *will* warp the LT-40 tail structures if too much heat is used.

Then use 1-2 coats of nitrate dope to seal it. You can wet or dry sand, and apply more coats depending on how smooth you want the finish. After that, it's up to you how you apply color. If the butyrate is your color, now is the time to apply it.

Andy
Old 06-04-2006, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Hi Guys
Thank you all for replys . the reason I m doing it in dope is that I plan to go far in this hobby . Ive already one ARF and I don t like it at all . I m an old hydroplane builder , when the boats where all made out of wood and we were hitting 90 MPH or close to it . the boats had to be built very strongh . Today every is different I would like good looking planes , built to last . I don t wish to knock down the ARF s I believe it s a matter of preferece , I love to build rather than fly . although I m just learning how to fly . I have a sickness of watching something I built come together its a really big high

Andy thanks for youre advice it helps a lot .
jlKonn thanks also I will be going to the Sig site soon to view what you have sent me .
yel914 too heavy is 7. 5 lbs for a trainer thats too heavy . thats what the guys in the club have told me . I purchased an new OS 46 , great engine I also have an Saito 56 . Like I said I m in this hobby for life .

Thanks to all . With all this info I m GOOD .



Mike Support the Troops


P. S. I m also learning how to use this Blasted Computer ( having trouble with this ) , But doing OK[8D]
Old 06-04-2006, 09:58 AM
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Michel
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Hi

By the way can dope go over epoxy , because I have to coverup the open bay areas on the LT-40 , This question has been lingering for a while with me [8D]

Mike

Too much wind to fly might as well build .

Take care
Old 06-04-2006, 06:35 PM
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JimTrainor
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Here is my koveral and dope covered LT-40.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/LT%2...1963113/tm.htm

That was three years ago. No wrinkles yet !

Definitely not a job for the impatient....

I doped the koverall on to the frame. No StixIt. Various tips and suggestions on this forum were all helpful.
Old 06-04-2006, 07:32 PM
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rainedave
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Jim, beautiful doping job.

Michel, I'm so glad to see someone wanting to try fabric & dope. Somewhere, somehow (maybe Topflite advertising hype?) silk (or koverall) & dope got billed as difficult and time consuming. Time consuming maybe but difficult? Applying fabric is many times easier than messing with plastic film. But the best part may be that you will never have to worry about bubbles, wrinkles or sags, even 10yrs down the road. It is also very lightweight and durable.

Jim used the conventional method of using nitrate instead of Stix-it. If you go that route, apply at least three full-strength coats of nitrate where the fabric will contact the wood, let it dry and sand any bumps. Then, brush straight thinner onto the Koverall and rub it against the framework with your finger to disolve the nitrate beneath which will "glue" it down. It only takes a few seconds to get it to stick. (similar to the way you would rub an iron to adhere film). If you need to move it, just brush on more thinner and you can lift it up. Try that with plastic film. You can tack the corners first and pull the fabric tight the way you do with fim, and then go back and brush on thinner to seal all the edges.

Now, you want to cut the nitrate 50/50 with thinner and apply two or three coats to fill the weave. Let this dry a day or two at least. After this, you can paint the way you prefer. Brodak sell a good butyrate primer that you can sand smooth as a base for colored dope. Many people put a coat or two of silver under their colors for added opacity. If you're looking for a Concours winning finish you can spend weeks priming/sanding/filling/sanding until the surface is perfect. But, you can get wonderful results just using a few coats of primer sanded with 600 grit. A lot of colored butyrate dope claims to be fuel proof, but it;'s really best to add two final clear topcoats.

The nice thing about all this is that it's a very fun and rewarding process. Yes, it takes longer than using iron-on plastic, but it's much, much easier to get a tight, wrinkle-free finish that will truly last. One other thing: you can put butyrate over nitrate, but not vice versa. Also, Midwest Aerogloss behaves like nitrate when applied over SIG butyrate.
Old 06-04-2006, 08:30 PM
  #10  
JimTrainor
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

I didn't find it hard. That was my first attempt. The LT-40 was a practice run for a 1/4 scale cub (which still hasn't been done).

The time consuming part was masking and painting the trim. The initial covering, nitrate dope, and base butyrate coats, where pretty quick. I avoided numerous pit falls by reading all I could here first. I expect the cub to be simpler since it is all yellow with just a bit of black trim (if I ever get to it).

(I had some experience with tissue and dope on Guillow models as a kid... I suppose that helped a bit. The smell of Nitrate dope was immediatly familar when I got started with the LT-40.).

You should invest in a simple respirator. You can find a simple resiprator with carbon filters at any home improvement center. The type of respirator you need is printed on the dope label - just match that to what you find Home Depot, or wherever. I did the work in my unfinished basement and vented the room via a fan that pull air out of the room and exhausted it directly out a basement window. That controlled the stink quite effectively. It didn't permeate to the rest of the house. You read here about how much it stinks... but I didn't really find that to be a problem. Actually, I prefer paint, and such, that stinks if the stuff is at all toxic. You know right away if the fumes are going somewhere you don't want them to go. Polyurethane paints, for example, don't stink but are very toxic (I've read). With dope, a simple carbon filter respirator is fine. I'm not sure it's that simple with Polyurethan paints.)
Old 06-05-2006, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my support of film coverings. I just assumed that your future planes would be covered in film so I thought you should "practice" on the trainer. After seeing what others have done with Koverall, I'm truly impressed. I have a couple of vintage plane kits (Waco YMF and Chester Jeep) that would probably look great with Koverall and a good paint job. I'd be curious as to how this turns out.
Old 06-05-2006, 09:16 AM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

yel914, IMO, you should absolutely cover those classics with fabric.

If not Koverall & dope, a great alternative is Worldtex from Horizon Hobbies. It already has heat-activated adhesive on it ( like plastic film) but goes around curves like silk, doesn't bubble or sag, and best of all, looks very similar to doped silk; though not as glossy. It comes in a fair number of colors, but the natural (see wing in pic) can be painted any color you like.
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Old 06-05-2006, 03:35 PM
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Michel
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

All of you guys are true modlers

The information I have recieved is truly incredable , straight up information .
I don t know about you guys but this is going to be a fantastic happening for me .
Saying thanks just dosen t say enoegh .
In the near future I will be up grading my computer , so that I can show you guys the projects I have completed .
The modified LT-40 looked great , I noticed the wire on the tail section , great idea .
I will be writing back , but at 6:00 I will meet my instructer at the field . It will be the first time we will have a chance to use my new buddy box .

You all take care [8D]

Mike
Old 06-05-2006, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Mike,
Sig Koverall is a great product, I have used it on several planes and I will never go back to iron on coverings. I apply it with Nitrate Dope. I covered my Sig 1/4 scale Clipped Wing Cub with it and the 2 Jack Stafford Ercoupe's that I am finishing now. The Cub has 4 coats of clear nitrate dope to fill the weave then painted with Latex. The Ercoupe's have 3 coats of Ploycrylic over the fabric for a smooth finish then primered, panel line detail and rivets then painted with Latex. I assure you it looks much better than an iron on covering. Here are a few pics.
Later!!
Anthony
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Old 06-05-2006, 09:44 PM
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rainedave
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Stunning, Anthony! Maybe it's because of my old free flight days, but nothing looks as good to me as fabric stretched over the top of wing ribs.
Old 06-06-2006, 04:16 PM
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Michel
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Hi Guys
Doing the tail end , do I asemble the rudder and elevator be for I do the covering . Or do I cover and than asemble , and if I do them seperatly how do I join them , do I have to remove the covering to glue them with epoxy ? These are thigs I need to know before I start covering . I will be adding wire to my LT-40 , as Jim Trainer did his LT-40 looked great . Does dope stick to epoxy ? , I need to cover up the open bay areas on the LT-40 . I haven t decided yet if I m going with the Stis-it or with the nitarat dope first , The only qustion I have is when and how do I assembe the tail section and than I can get started . It will be finished with a polyurathan car finish . My next plane will be finished in dope paint in a spray can ( I don t know if this is a good idea ) .

The idea of the nitrate dope and thinner I liked a lot . I m sure that I will like this method , is there any part of this method that I need a heat gun or iron .to shrink the Koveral in between the bays or does the nitrate do it all by itself .

Yel 914
JLKONN
Andy
Jim Trainer
Raineday
and Cubnut

Thanks To You All

Mike Support Our Troops
Old 06-06-2006, 04:59 PM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

I had similar concerns about the tail group on my LT40. Because I like to think outside the box, I did this. I widened the base of the tail where it sits on the elevator by adding 2 pieces of 1/32" ply and tapering the ends to blend in. I then drilled and installed 3 aluminum treaded shafts (available as male & female bolts for scap book binding) into holes drilled into the base. Corresponding holes were drilled in the elevator for the shaft to set in. On the fuselage base where the elevator sits, you will need to reinforce this area to accept the screws. All parts are covered separately, then screwed on. I've never had it come loose. I know a picture would be great here, but I haven't a clue about how to do that. Hope this helps.
Old 06-06-2006, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Raineday, So the fabric material goes around outside curves well, as I can see. How does it handle inside curves. I'm currently finishing up a Sig Skybolt, built from plans. I covered it in white Ultracote which I like using(I know, HISS, HISS). For the blue trim I chose metallic Monocote. I just liked the color. This is my first and last time with Monocote. Frankly I was half tempted to rip the covering off and start over. If the fabric coverings can handle inside curves , I may consider it for a future redo.
Old 06-06-2006, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

You will need a heat gun and iron, I went over all my seams with an iron and shrunk the fabric with heat before adding the coats of Nitrate. Dope will stick to epoxy. I always cover my tail surfaces before assembly, just cut a little material away where you are going to epoxy the tail surfaces on.
I have never tried Stix-It so i cannot give you any feedback on that product.
Good Luck!!
Anthony
Old 06-07-2006, 03:08 PM
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Michel
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Thanks Anthony

I ll make sure that I don t put nitrate were the rudder joins with the elevator . I ll be going with the nitrate dope with the thinner . It sounds like a good prcedure . I will be moving soon , so I will not have much time to put into the plane . I will have to sand off all the epoxy and fiberglass so that I will be able to cover the open bay areas at the rear of the fusealoge .

Thanks for youre help

Mike [8D]
Old 08-10-2006, 03:20 PM
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Michel
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Hi
Well I m into the dopeing stage . I built myselve a sample rudder to start with . I gave the rudder three coats of nitrate . than preceded to apply the Koveral with thinner . When I got to putting on the second layer on the opposit side , at the top front and rear of the rudder I was getting bubbles ( air pockets ) is there any way of removing these air pockets ? . I also experamented with the heating iron , I was very careful about how much heat there was and how I applied it . WoW this is exactly what I was looking for . But like I said I m getting these air bubbles that I really don t like . It s when I go to overlap that I am haveing trouble . When I applied the iron on the Koveral it came out tight , I made sure that I didn t overheat it

Is there somethng that I am doing wrong ? or is it normal . Most likely it s something I m doing wrong If I apply the heating iron will this help ? Youre experience hear would be of great help I ve already applied the nitrate dope to the Koveral where it meets the frame work .

Thank You

Michel ( Mike ) [sm=drowning.gif][sm=drowning.gif]
Old 08-10-2006, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

I use dope thinned 50/50 to apply the Koverall and haven't had any trouble with bubbles. Try applying a coat to the area makeing sure you soak completely thru the fabric and smooth out the bubbles. If they are still there after drying try to smooth them out with the iron.
Good Luck!!!
Anthony
Old 08-10-2006, 04:40 PM
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Michel
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

Hi Anthony
How have you been ?
I ve done just that . It doesn t look tooooo -Bad , I can,t say that it looks that perfect though . I ve already given it another caat of nitraite . I pressed down the Koveral with my fingers Question ? The fuss that is left , do you cut it off or do you sand it off ? Or would it be a combiation of both ? I can say this much for the dope it sure does dry fast . Thanks a lote fot the info I just want it to look the best it can

Take care

Michel ( Mike )[sm=wink.gif]
Old 08-10-2006, 07:46 PM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

I have been doing great thanks for asking!!!

I always leave a couple inches or excess around the edges then put a coat of dope on the fabric and let it dry then it will not fray when you trim it. Once you get it trimmed dope the edge down. I apply 5 to 6 coats of dope over the fabric at the seams, lightly sand after the 2nd coat and between each coat after that. Make sure you do not sand into the fabric. Any fuzz you are seeing should sand off. I would use 320 or 400 grit paper for the sanding. Once you get everything sanded and sealed you will have a very hard time finding the seams if it is done properly. It is really a easy process to learn and get great results.
I will keep an eye on the thread and see how your doing.
Later!!
Anthony
Old 08-10-2006, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: Koveral Appication

OH I ALMOST FORGOT,
Try not to brush across the edge of the fabric but with it, if you brush across the edge it will fray more. After the 2nd or 3rd coat it usually isn't an issue.
Anthony

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