Lake Caballo incident  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Crash & Rebuild >> Lake Caballo incident
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Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 12:40:16 PM   
ger87410


 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Las Cruces, ND, USA
Status: offline 		I spent the night at Caballo Lake here in NM Saturday night so I could fly Sunday morning (flying hull designed ship). I watched the sun crest the big mountain in the background at 7AM and decided it's time to take her out. EVERYONE was out on the lake fishing, but none anywhere near us.
I take the plane out to a sorta island so I can easily land it. Still no boats within a 1/2 mile. Gassed her up, taxied her out without incident. Flew her for a few circuits and I hear my wife saying there's a boat coming from the south.
I start flying further south to see, and sure enough. They are moving slowly so I assume that they are going to keep moving. Instead they decide to park in the middle of the runway. I'm yelling at these idiots to move, and their response is to break out the fishing gear. I'm starting to run out of gas, so I've got to bring her down. I make a total of 2 landing attempts: The first resulted in me coming in too hot and I buzzed the boat. They still don't move. As I was coming out of the turn for the second attempt and my right wind float falls off. The wing starts wobbling, so I have to bring her down now.
It starts to look like the plane is heading right for them. I give it as much right input as I can and shove the nose down. The plane had to have landed about a yard or 2 in front of the boat and turned sideways REAL QUICK like. The result was the plane stopping on a dime and the people in the boat getting a little wet.
The engine was still running, but the horizontal tail that's mounted on the top of the vertical tail snapped off. I taxi her back and the people in the boat decide to leave. While they are leaving I'm cursing them at the top of my lungs.
A nice gentleman in a trolling boat retrieved my float for me.
Lesson here: don't park on the runway.
       Post #: 1

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 1:29:33 PM   
MormonMike


 

Posts: 1134
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: millville, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Ger, I can understand you. Words can't begin to describe the anger. MM

(in reply to ger87410)
       Post #: 2

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 2:19:16 PM   
UK_Flyer


 

Posts: 72
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		without trying to state the obvious but its a lake - surely its a public place ?

Does this lake have signs stating that there would be planes taking off and landing ?

_____________________________

90% of the problems a pilot encounters in the air, he chose to take into the air with him !!!

(in reply to MormonMike)
       Post #: 3

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 2:52:51 PM   
ger87410


 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Las Cruces, ND, USA
Status: offline 		They sure cared if the people in my rescue boat I brought had a lifejacket on when on the water.
No signs like that here in NM. They don't seem to hardly know RC planes exist.
I see you point but they could have heeded my warnings.
You live in the UK?
Do they have that type of stuff there?
Do you have to earn "wings" like in Canada?
Does anyone here in the states know of lakes with that type of warnings posted? Maybe NM needs to get with the times.

< Message edited by ger87410 -- 6/5/2006 2:54:09 PM >

(in reply to UK_Flyer)
       Post #: 4

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 3:31:46 PM   
LSF2298


 

Posts: 271
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Boynton Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Seaplanes have the lowest priority of any vessel on the water. I have seen Seaplanes abort landings because a boat entered the "runway?.

"Man-powered beats sail beats motorboat beats seaplane. Human-powered boats (canoes and rowboats) have the right of way over sailboats, which in turn have the right of way over powerboats, and even they have the right of way over seaplanes. I think of this in terms of increasing "technological sophistication: the fancier your equipment, the fewer rights you have (sort of a class reversal)."

(in reply to ger87410)
       Post #: 5

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 3:48:37 PM   
B58


 

Posts: 597
Joined: 3/19/2002
From: La Luz, NM, USA
Status: offline 		I live in NM, I fly RC, and I go to Caballo often. I think for you to expect an average boater to understand what you are doing, and that they are in your way is expecting a lot. That is not a large lake, and never gets crowded as far as I have seen. I think you are lucky no one was injured or property damaged. Bob

(in reply to LSF2298)
       Post #: 6

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 4:02:40 PM   
carmatic1



Posts: 1951
Joined: 1/20/2006
From: kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeaterMan

Seaplanes have the lowest priority of any vessel on the water. I have seen Seaplanes abort landings because a boat entered the "runway?.

"Man-powered beats sail beats motorboat beats seaplane. Human-powered boats (canoes and rowboats) have the right of way over sailboats, which in turn have the right of way over powerboats, and even they have the right of way over seaplanes. I think of this in terms of increasing "technological sophistication: the fancier your equipment, the fewer rights you have (sort of a class reversal)."



yeah, its something like on the road sometimes, if your in a car you tend to let pedestrians, cyclists or animals pass...
its more of a thing about if they can get out of the way at all , cuz since your moving so much faster compared to them , and you both are trying to avoid each other , you would seem to be doing more of the avoiding than they are... assuming everything stays airworthy and seaworthy, and that nobody is jostling for space, its faster and easier to pick another approach for a plane than it is to move a boat out of the way, in this case im thinking they couldnt even be bothered to move the boat

< Message edited by carmatic1 -- 6/5/2006 4:05:36 PM >

_____________________________

Hey how did you do that... Practice, man
But thats what they always say! Yeah cuz theyre always right....

(in reply to LSF2298)
       Post #: 7

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 4:34:15 PM   
ger87410


 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Las Cruces, ND, USA
Status: offline 		So, given all of the facts stated: what's the best way to keep a like incident from happening?

(in reply to carmatic1)
       Post #: 8

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 4:45:58 PM   
ger87410


 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Las Cruces, ND, USA
Status: offline 		Go here:
http://powerboat.about.com/od/navigation/a/absolute_RtWay.htm
for the list of right-of-ways.
Which category do seaplanes fall under? If it's the bottom one, both of us were in the same category and nobody had the absolute right-of-way.

(in reply to LSF2298)
       Post #: 9

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 4:53:28 PM   
UK_Flyer


 

Posts: 72
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I think its worth baring in mind this is an isolated incident on the grounds that you were in the air at the time, if your watcher can call movement on the bank or water as early as they can and land immeditatly to see what there going to do would be the best route. Its along the same lines of a park flyer in a park and somebody comes along with a kite, nothing you can do just finish wait till there done and go back when its safe.

Wings ?, if its what i think it is yes, we have "A" - "B" licenses, with various skills passed at each, i believe a "c" is being discussed at the moment. but without an "A" you cant fly solo and "B" before you can demo.

Yep in UK, but building at the moment 2 x 2M, so too much time spent on here instead of at a field.

UK

_____________________________

90% of the problems a pilot encounters in the air, he chose to take into the air with him !!!

(in reply to ger87410)
       Post #: 10

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 4:59:55 PM   
UK_Flyer


 

Posts: 72
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ger87410

Go here:
http://powerboat.about.com/od/navigation/a/absolute_RtWay.htm
for the list of right-of-ways.
Which category do seaplanes fall under? If it's the bottom one, both of us were in the same category and nobody had the absolute right-of-way.



But thats becuase its not technically a "vessel" but Aircraft until it has landed only at that point will rules apply, and even given that even if it was classed a "vessel" the rule wouldnt apply becuase its a model and not a proper "Vessel"



< Message edited by UK_Flyer -- 6/5/2006 5:02:25 PM >

_____________________________

90% of the problems a pilot encounters in the air, he chose to take into the air with him !!!

(in reply to ger87410)
       Post #: 11

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 5:05:15 PM   
ger87410


 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Las Cruces, ND, USA
Status: offline 		It's starting to look like people are just throwing up their hands in 'I dunno'.
Unfortunately after my circuit further south to explore what they were doing instead of landing immediately caused a delay that resulted in the boat coming on the runway before another circuit was started. Should I have just landed at the first sign of a boat within a 1/2 mile?
Are there any type of 'standard' rules to be followed when flying seaplanes that aren't followed when flying from hard ground?
I think I'm going to ask that in the seaplane forum.
G

(in reply to UK_Flyer)
       Post #: 12

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 5:08:25 PM   
Broken



Posts: 794
Joined: 9/8/2002
From: Herriman, UT, USA
Status: offline 		I don't get it!! I do allot of flying at public lakes and if someone gets in the way I just choose another line.. It's a lake not a paved runway.. What am I missing here???

_____________________________

I think I will do one more flight!!!!

(in reply to UK_Flyer)
       Post #: 13

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 5:13:39 PM   
ger87410


 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Las Cruces, ND, USA
Status: offline 		Choose another line? The only line I could see was right in front of me. Everything behind me was gravel and people. I'm not flying over people.
The people in the boat parked directly in front of me 2~3 meters out.
How do you choose a different line? It's a big lake, but it's also a big plane.
Should I have been in a boat?
Should I have launched off of the boat launch so that I stick further out in the water allowing me better sight?
Any ideas on how to keep this from happening?

(in reply to Broken)
       Post #: 14

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 5:19:23 PM   
UK_Flyer


 

Posts: 72
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Just how big is this plane ?

Flying from a boat would be cool, you could get it to tow you out to the middle and back (wait hang on, ignore that last bit LOL)

_____________________________

90% of the problems a pilot encounters in the air, he chose to take into the air with him !!!

(in reply to ger87410)
       Post #: 15

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 5:23:58 PM   
ger87410


 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/18/2003
From: Las Cruces, ND, USA
Status: offline 		I'm sorry. I have another build thread about this plane going and I put the stats in there and not here. Thought I did... Oops.
Flying hull design.
Unknown manufacturer.
71" ws
7~9 pounds (I think). It' heavier then my 7 pound P-51.
It looks like Lanier's version of the flying hull.

(in reply to UK_Flyer)
       Post #: 16

RE: Lake Caballo incident - 6/5/2006 5:46:08 PM