RE: Legislating against 3D flight

RE: Legislating against 3D flight
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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 4:33:41 PM

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I'm not a 3D'er, but what makes the hover manuever require it to be over the runway?
There is a huge grass flying field, usually with a pattern(I'm guessing), why does the hover have to be on the runway.... why not just move it 50' off the side of the runway- (yes, the not pilotstation side, for folks that love to argue semantics) - so folks can land/TO without runway use conflict.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 5:07:01 PM

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quote:

I'm not a 3D'er, but what makes the hover manuever require it to be over the runway?
There is a huge grass flying field, usually with a pattern(I'm guessing), why does the hover have to be on the runway.... why not just move it 50' off the side of the runway- (yes, the not pilotstation side, for folks that love to argue semantics) - so folks can land/TO without runway use conflict.

Well, to answer your question, unless you are flying a 40%plus plane, it's not going to be easy at 50'. It's able to be done, but not that easily. Lets assume the runway is 150' then add 50' and that's 200' away from the pilot. Now, if you are flying an F40, that's going to be pretty small. Since the plane is not at a defined flight path and can change direction very quickly, you are not going to be having much fun.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 5:07:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

I'm not a 3D'er, but what makes the hover manuever require it to be over the runway?There is a huge grass flying field, usually with a pattern(I'm guessing), why does the hover have to be on the runway.... why not just move it 50' off the side of the runway- (yes, the not pilotstation side, for folks that love to argue semantics) - so folks can land/TO without runway use conflict.

We would call that A.S.B (Attention Seeking Behavior)....

and like you I do not see why it cannot be done out over an open area. I do not mind it, actually it is fun to watch for a few minutes, but to me it smacks of being inconsiderate to the remaining pilots, which is one reason I beleive it gives the 3D crowd so much problems locally in clubs. We don't seem to have such a big problem with it in our club, but it is small.
Tommy

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 5:30:10 PM

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why not just move it 50' off the side of the runway-
"Lets assume the runway is 150' then... "

Holy Cow! that is the widest RC runway I've ever heard of. I was talking about the 20x100'+ most of us have to contend with, putting the hoverplanes 100' at most (site dependant). But then your place must not have any problems, ya'll could land a formation and have room to spare for some Hoverguys

< Message edited by KidEpoxy -- 6/7/2006 5:31:31 PM >

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 6:32:31 PM

littlecrankshaf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

why not just move it 50' off the side of the runway

Why not just recognize simple logical priorities concerning the runway?

Deadstiks or emergencies #1

Landings #2

Take-offs #3

Practicing runway attempts and/or touch-n-goes #4

All other maneuvering #5

Why just keep bickering petty concerns, procedures or your subjective viewpoints?

Now... As far as pilots at the flight-line. Just communicate to others! If you are not comfortable with someone else's flying style either let them know and work out some agreement/help or wait a few minutes and have your turn. Not a problem.

It really is that simple.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 6:37:59 PM

littlecrankshaf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

why not just move it 50' off the side of the runway

Why not just recognize simple logical priorities concerning the runway?

Deadstiks or emergencies #1

Landings #2

Take-offs #3

Practicing runway attempts and/or touch-n-goes #4

All other maneuvering #5

Why just keep bickering petty concerns, procedures or your subjective viewpoints?

Now... As far as pilots at the flight-line. Just communicate to others! If you are not comfortable with someone else's flying style either let them know and work out some agreement/help or wait a few minutes and have your turn. Not a problem.

It really is that simple.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 6:49:33 PM

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Well said! I agree wholeheartedly. Communication is the key. Spotters are important to help make communicating a reality when there are multiple planes flying different speeds and styles in the air.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 7:08:13 PM

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quote:

either let them know and work out some agreement/help or wait a few minutes and have your turn. Not a problem

and one such agreement could be paving/carpeting a 30x30 Hoverpad off the side of the runway 20-50'.

Option A. Wait a few minutes and have your turn
Option B. Both fly without waiting, by allocating hoverspace/3Dzone

Kinda would suck if you pull up to the field and there are 4 3D guys waiting to hoverup the runway for the next 45-60minutes. Option A would have you put your pin in line and drive off for another cup of coffe, or confront & exercise your Priority over them (everyone loves that). Option B has you slip infront of them 4 waiting to use the 3Dzone and you get pattern laps in around the hoverguy in the infield. You're happy, they're happy... eveybody is happy except for starbucks missing out on another $6 coffe sale.

However, littlecrankshaf , it was a question:
I'm not a 3D'er, but what makes the hover manuever require it to be over the runway?
50% says folks cant see their plane at 50', but waterfalls & such are done way, way farther then 50'. The actual distance of course is site dependant on existing Pilotstations & Runway layout, but directly across from pilotstations seems pretty close (but I'm not a 3Der). What is you take on it?

Does hovering require standing outside of the safety pilotstation to get closer to the plane?
There was a thread about Cant Use Pilotstation to Takeoff, seems folks just decreed he needed to learn to takeoff from the pilotstation rather than the easier Stand Behind method. If folks cant hover more than 30' away...... maybe a safe 3Dzone is whats needed so folks can have the horizontal prop disk 8' away at head level for 5-6 minutes a flight

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 7:23:53 PM

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Ok Kid Epoxy, I thought that since you were in Texas, you would have a huge runway. That's why I used 150'. You are correct in saying that waterfalls and most 3D maneuvers can be done at past 50' easily. I would go so far as to say that if someone wants to waterfall over the runway that they are a big show off. I'm talking about hovering which is the only maneuver mentioned in the post that I was replying to. Hovering a plane is kindda like hovering a heli in the fact that it's harder the further away it is. I'd say that if you are flying from a 20x100 runway that 50' would not be too much to ask.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 9:43:48 PM

littlecrankshaf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Option A. Wait a few minutes and have your turn
Option B. Both fly without waiting, by allocating hoverspace/3Dzone

Not sure what your point is... but just to look at this from all angles...Why not have a rule that states; all flyers/pilots must be able demonstrate their ability to hover and transition into the flight pattern from over the runway?

That would work for the 3D guys and would insure a level of competency for all. Without a doubt the overall safety at the field would be greatly increased for all pilots to be proficient enough to pass that requirement. Hmmm… a new rule…

That’s what I thought...silly from that angle isn't it? Just as silly from the other too!

The reason we fly, up close, inverted, loops, spins or just circuits is because it is fun! No other REASON.

Here is the deal…if you do not want to fly a certain way…don’t.

If the field has so many 3D flyers that you feel you can’t fly…don’t. Just like I don’t fly when there are too many circle flyers.

But maybe, just maybe, you can talk to one of them 3D flyers and work out an arrangement so that both, you and he, can have their share of fun. I have made arrangements many times with pilots so that we both get our fix…no problem

I have never…and I mean never seen or heard of 3d pilot that would not make allowances for anyone else so that they can have their time. The problem has been, more often than not, that there are those that will not willingly allow them their time.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 9:48:05 PM

littlecrankshaf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 50%plane

Hovering a plane is kindda like hovering a heli in the fact that it's harder the further away it is.

Excellent point!!!!

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 10:46:26 PM

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SAY WHAT?

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 11:30:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
I have never…and I mean never seen or heard of 3d pilot that would not make allowances for anyone else so that they can have their time.

I have.

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/7/2006 11:32:52 PM

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Option A. Wait a few minutes and have your turn
Option B. Both fly without waiting, by allocating hoverspace/3Dzone
"Not sure what your point is... "

You repeatedly suggest the simple solution is to have someone wait/not fly, while I propose finding a way to let everyone fly all the time. If hovering requires the pilot to be closer than the dist to a paved/carpeted 3Dzone across the runway... if we could wave a wand and move the runway 30' further from the pilotstations and put the 3Dzone there, would that be enough to get hover folks to stop tieing up the runway for other traffic? Or would you like a 3Dzone at the end of the pilotstation row on this side of the runway... or where would you be happy other than the place of Takeoff & Landing to play your upclose & stationary games?

Back at the Pumpkin Patch, the heli folks setup over in the corner to do their hoverstuff, and we just didnt fly over in that corner. Sure a heli was welcome to do some laps at cruising speed, more birds up the better, but they kept the stationary stuff over in their corner. We all got along great, and it was a nice coffe walk to see all the different birds when you do your freq use check.

Hmmm, seems I'm directly opposed to the topic, Legislating Aginst 3D, by proposing 3D coexistance... I guess I should wrap this tangent up.

quote:

50%
Ok Kid Epoxy, I thought that since you were in Texas, you would have a huge runway. That's why I used 150'.

ok
I've been sport40 ParkFlying (.40 PF, that Texas sized enough for ya

) at a soccer complex, and the club I'm meaning to join has a big grass field without pavement (might be hard on my .049 plane).... and an Ultralight Airplex with a narrow x long runway. I was just considering some of the club pics I've seen estimating the pavement- seems tarmac aint cheap as grass.
In a big grass field, where do they hover if there is no runway to tie up?

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RE: Legislating against 3D flight - 6/8/2006 12:54:11 AM

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Seems like everyone has their own SECTARIAN, way of seeing things. and we all have our own unique way of solving the problem. One things for sure though, WE, meaning.... all the members of our particular club, will have to come up with remedies that will address the concerns of everyone in the club. Taking into consideration........ the needs of everyones "induvidual" style of flying. Such as Gas, Glo, Electric, Giant, Scale, 3D, and Gliders and Sailplanes. And we must not forget about the "beginner" pilots. Remember,........ RC Flying, is an ever evolving hobby, and we must learn to accept change within the hobby. What if we all flew single channel aircraft, as everyone did when I first got into the hobby.? As for myself, When I see someone flying 3D that is proficent...... I just sit back and admire their skills and wish that 3d had been around when I was younger, and my reflexes were a little better (a lot better) than they are today. The same go's for Helicopters. They're just as much a part of this hobby as any other type of aircraft is. What a sad state this hobby would be in if we were all "monolithic" in our flying style.. There's room for everyone of us, and no one particular group or flying style, has a "LOCK" on which is BEST. Personally, I really enjoy watching "Scale" aircraft fly, and do "Scale" aerobatics, the particular aircraft is capable of performing. To me, nothing looks worse than seeing someone trying to do "3D" with a J3 Cub. (even it they can) Question! Which is harder........Flying the full "IMAC" pattern to perfection, or Flying a complete 3D routine, or buzzing around with a helicopter performing aerobatics? The plain truth is......... All of these problems should have been addressed by the members of the club before it became an issue, and became a problem. Nothing can be gained, (or accomplished) if all one does is just sit around grumbling and complaining just because they don't like the way someone else fly's, or the type of aircraft they fly. If it bothers you that much.....Why not have the club call a special meeting to address the problem. Then, let all the club members have their say and get it ironed out once and for all. If your not satisfied with the results, you can always find another club more in line with you desires. But for crying out loud............. The last thing we need is to get the the AMA involved. There is absolutely nothing they can do to solve problems at our particular flying fields. Live with it.....3D is here to stay, and I can't wait for the next style to arrive.

< Message edited by Bob Laine -- 6/8/2006 1:10:08 AM >

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