RE: Nitro Crawlers??

RE: Nitro Crawlers??
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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 6/28/2006 5:31:47 PM

dezfan

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Point taken, As I stated earlier, I reacted to a statement made by Matt and posted my response w/ shall we say, fire in my eyes!

I try my level best to help any and all that ask for it. This subject has been discussed to death on RCC and it is one I feel strongly about.

Hopefully this will bring this discussion to an end.

Dez

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(in reply to slim_t)

RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/2/2006 10:08:44 AM

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I also feel strongly about this subject/topic. This should not be the end of this here or anyplace. Yes some people have a misconseption of what a "crawler" is, but that is what places like this is for to HELP them should it be electric or nitro. I am not getting down on anyone person Fan. Just like in the begining of electric crawlers the first ones out there were told it cant be done but they did it, look where they are at today. There has always has been a electric VS. Nitro just like Chevy and Ford. It never stops. The only thing stopping a Nitro crawlin rig is the people that say CANT, that is the biggest hold up in any project, I myself learned that word should not be used as it STOPS most if not all projects dead. I have been told over 587 times now that Nitro cant crawl so far, But that is not stopping me from building one. Yes I do have a lot of time in R&D almost 1-1/2 years, gone through alot of gear set ups to find the "sweet spot" that comes in at about 114:1 for a nitro, also during this time I have helped out some electric guys get there electric crawlers down to about 107:1 using a 20 turn. One thing that I have found is that with electric or Nitro they run better at a mid RPM range and that is where the right gear ratio comes into play, not the cooling or the brakes those are the easy ones and overcame those early on. So far I am having to have my tranny machined to get it workin and that is one of my slowdowns of my project the other major one was a move into a bigger workshop. One more thing to touch on is the the loudness of these Nitros, they would not be as loud as some of the race trucks/buggies /MT/or touring cars as they would not be WOT as much and loud doesnt alway=usable power so I feel this is a mute point, also as with any place you run RC"s you have to be freindly to the area you are runnin as not to bother other activities unless it is a place just for RC. So if any Nitro guys wanna get crawlin feel free to ask questions ignore the others there is a whole new world to crawl .

Steve

(in reply to dezfan)

RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/2/2006 4:48:39 PM

J_Bone

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I see everyones points on each side. I'm a Nitro fan and all my RC's are Nitro except my T4 and Crawler.
I would like to see a capable Nitro crawler built. So maybe MB will build one and go head to head with a Electric one.

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/2/2006 6:31:11 PM

dezfan

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Good reading there MB,

The fact that you have nearly 1 1/2 YEARS of R&D in your project as well large amounts of money (machine work alone isn't cheap) and are still working out the bugs, illustrates my point.

Is it feasible that a nitro can be transformed into a crawler? Sure it's feasible, but it isn't practical.

I'm sure that it can be done. But is it feasible for the market? Is little Johnny down the street going to be able to duplicate your crawler? Will the majority of people looking to get into crawling be willing or able to spend the time and money you have to get a crawler that still isn't as capable as the electrics that are extremely capable and readily already? More than likely no.

I applaud you on your effort and individualism. Like I stated, I would love to crawl w/ you.

I guess my point is that Nitro (in general) is not well suited for crawling. You yourself have demonstrated this. I'm not saying that nitro will never be a good crawling platform, just not now or in the near future.

Even w/ all of the progress you have made, the noise, fire hazard, and fuel spill issues still need to be addressed. Don't they make mufflers for nitro? As for the fire hazard, local would determine the potential risk of that, and fuel spills? Well they still haven't perfected that is the 1:1 world.

How did you over come the cooling and braking issues? I'm very interested to hear your solutions to these issues.

I would love to see some pics on your nitro crawler. Who knows, 10 years from now they might be common place. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

Dez

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(in reply to J_Bone)

RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/3/2006 3:31:23 AM

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Well the year and a half I have into it is not just for me it is to help others that want a nitro vrawler. As with any new RC products there has to be a time to perfect the product. As for if lil Johny down the street he can get the goods without breaking the bank. As for a fire hazard there wont be any as far as I can see, unless you dump a bunch of fuel on the ground and light it up. As for fuel spillage goes I am running a airplane fule tank that takes a pump to fill it up and to drain it as well, this will also alow me to run at all angles. Also with this setup there is little chance for spillage at fueling or running. As for the cooling goes I went of to the rc heli world and barrowed a engine mounted cooling fan and shroud it works great, moves a lot of air to keep every thing in check. as for the breaking I have two disk brakes one at each diff inputs, the brakes came from a NTC3 road car. The other stuff you will have to wait to see. One other point is that my first crawler is going to be a Diesel conversion crawler, lots of power and not much noise, it is going to be on a K&B .61 engine.

(in reply to dezfan)

RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/3/2006 6:12:06 AM

dezfan

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So just out of curiosity, how much do you have tied up in your rig?

In all reality, is it feasible for Lil Johnny to do what you have done? Or is extensive knowledge of the Nitro inner workings required (diesel conversion sounds cool), as well as the need for custom machine work?

Once again I'm sure that it is possible, but is it practical?

As the the fire hazard or the lack there of, try explaining that to Ranger Bob at the park and BTW, good luck. Those guys are Nazi's!

The brakes sound cool.

Now if you don't mind, I have a few questions for you just out of curiosity.

What's the weight of your rig in comp form? What's your center chassis clearance? Are you running it as a Super, 2.2, 14er, or as a scale rig? What kind of articulation or you achieving? How is your break over angle? w/ the front and rear brake, can you perform digs?

Sorry for all the questions, curiosity is a b!tch!

What about a pic????

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(in reply to mechanicalbob)

RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/5/2006 6:42:56 AM

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Dezfan: So just out of curiosity, how much do you have tied up in your rig?

Mechanicalbob: Well what I have into to my Nitro crawler doesnt realy count as most of it is in R&D type of work in the end just a Nitro crawler truck should be around $500-$700, just depends on what you want.

Dezfan: In all reality, is it feasible for Lil Johnny to do what you have done? Or is extensive knowledge of the Nitro inner workings required (diesel conversion sounds cool), as well as the need for custom machine work?

Mechanicalbob: Yes it will be feasable for lil Johnny to do what I am doing all he has to do is buy a kit and build, he wont need much NItro engine workings but be best if he had prior Nitro knowledge. As for custom machine work only if he wants a trick chassis.

Dezfan: Once again I'm sure that it is possible, but is it practical?

Mechanicalbob: It is possible and practical, Nitro's will crawl soon. As for where people run Electrics my not be the place for Nitros, just like electrics run on indoor tracks it is not feasable for Nitros to do the same. So Nitro crawlers will have to run in a lil bit differant place.

Dezfan: As the the fire hazard or the lack there of, try explaining that to Ranger Bob at the park and BTW, good luck. Those guys are Nazi's!

Mechanicalbob: it is not hard to explain to them what is going on and the risk at hand if you have a REAL R/C club and can get a speacial use permit, so far I have not had a problim with them.

Dezfan: The brakes sound cool.

Mechanicalbob: Yes they are

Dezfan: Now if you don't mind, I have a few questions for you just out of curiosity.

What's the weight of your rig in comp form? What's your center chassis clearance? Are you running it as a Super, 2.2, 14er, or as a scale rig? What kind of articulation or you achieving? How is your break over angle? w/ the front and rear brake, can you perform digs?

Mechanicalbob: As for a final wet weight of my truck it should be in around 10 lbs, but this is subject to change. As for what class am I setting it up for, I dont know yet because there is not a crawlin club near me here in Juneau Alaska. Nor do I have a set of limits yet to go by, so for right now I am just building the truck. As for articulation you will have to wait and see

. As for the rest of your questions I will have to wait till the truck is done to tell you.

Dezfan: Sorry for all the questions, curiosity is a b!tch!

Mechanicalbob: Yes it is, but it is also the best way to learn somthing new and to open a closed mind.

Dezfan: What about a pic????

Mechanicalbob: when I have the truck runnin I will post pics then.

Mechanicalbob: I will be happy to answer any question people have to the best that I can. Any nitro guys or gals want to get into Nitro crawlin feel free to ask any question as well.

Steve

(in reply to dezfan)

RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/5/2006 8:00:23 AM

dezfan

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Hello James,

Thanks you for answering my questions. I'm still curious to what you have spent on YOUR build.

I still don't see it as practical, but to each their own. It's your time and money to do w/ as you please.

I have done an immense amount of searching and reading on the subject of nitro crawlers in the last few weeks. Most have been comical at best. To this point your build appears to be the furthest along by far.

You have at least answered a few of the questions that hex the possibility of nitro being used as a crawler.

This is why I say nitro and crawling are not a good mix. Nearly 2 years in and still not a single comp worthy nitro to be seen, YET!

If nothing else it will be unique. Sorry but IMHO your swimming up stream on this one. Ultimately, I guess the capability of your rig will be the determining factor on the matter.

W/ the weight you have listed, I will have to assume that you will be in the super class, maybe a 14er?

It is 2 1/2 times heavier than my brush less 2.2 rig. At that weight I just don't see it being competitive in any way in the 2.2 arena.

In the super division, it's still heavy, but definetly in the ball park. 2 1/2 pounds heavier than my super, but not unheard of in any way.

I guess that until it's completed we won't know it CG, center chassis clearance, articulation, ect... ect... so it is hard to say were it would compete.

Again I'm assuming that w/ the nitro/diesel motor and custom machined gearbox that it will be a bit top heavy. I'm basing this on the other designs of nitro truck that I have seen. Until I can see pics of your there is no way to know for sure.

And again I don't mean to sound close minded or arrogant. I simply don't see the advantages or practicality to a Nitro crawler in any way. I have yet to see one that could compete at any level what so ever.

Matter of fact, the only reason that I can see a purpose for them in any way, is just so it can be said that it has been done.

I would love to see someone do it. But w/ all of their short comings and w/ the huge advances that electric crawlers have obtained in the same time frame. Nitro just seems a bit pointless.

Add the recent advances of brush less motor technology in crawling and the coming use of Li-Po/Li-Ion batteries, electric crawler w/ become lighted and more powerful than ever.

At the same time they will lower there Center of Gravity even further which in turn will distance the electric crawler even further ahead of the the still to come nitro.

Nitro just seems to fall further and further behind w/ every step forward it takes. For every small advence in the nitro crawler arena there are huge leaps made in the electric crawling world.

Once again James, good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing your nitro crawler. But as I've stated, I think your beating a dead horse.

I wish you well.

Dez

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/5/2006 6:47:09 PM

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I was thinking of getting in to rock crawling but after reading this thread i have definitely changed my mind.

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/5/2006 6:57:20 PM

dezfan

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Sorry you feel that way, it's an amazing and fun sport.

Good luck w/ whatever you choose to pursue.

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/5/2006 7:22:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mechanicalbob

Mechanicalbob: when I have the truck runnin I will post pics then.

Ah, but we need teaser pic to tide us over until then! Even if it's not "ready for prime-time!"

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/5/2006 8:03:49 PM

dezfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: riffrafff

quote:

ORIGINAL: mechanicalbob

Mechanicalbob: when I have the truck runnin I will post pics then.

Ah, but we need teaser pic to tide us over until then! Even if it's not "ready for prime-time!"

I agree!

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/7/2006 7:50:33 AM

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I do agree but you will have to wait a bit

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/7/2006 11:52:13 AM

NITROHOLICS ANONYMOUS

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Just answer his question and get on with it, argue face to face instead of wasting cyberspace. (Hey, that rhymed)

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RE: Nitro Crawlers?? - 7/7/2006 5:55:02 PM

dezfan

Posts: 1426
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From: Oak Grove, MO, USA
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That would be great, we could get together for lunch, have a couple of beers, express our views, check out each others crawlers and go crawling.

Only issue, James lives in Alaska. I live in Missouri. Maybe you could fly us both to Australia for a crawl?

All in all, that is what the Internet is for, communication and the exchange of ideas and opinions. I really don't see this as an argument, as it is a disagreement. I am not angry at James (or Matt for that matter) because he is trying to crawl w/ nitro. "I" just don't think it's a good combination.

Nuff said.

Dez

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(in reply to NITROHOLICS ANONYMOUS)