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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/4/2012 2:54 PM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		Great link, can't wait to read up. Thank you for everyones help. I don't feel like I'm past the limitations of.the hull. I've seen these hulls rip pretty hard.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/5/2012 5:04 AM   
toyotatruckin



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Status: offline 		Personally I do not like fins with the curve at the bottom-one reason is they are more sensitive to adjustments, I make my own fins and put the bend at the top(just under the bracket), I mount the bracket 90* off the build board and mount up the fin to that which will give you your 5* tuck (good bench setting) with that said are you accounting for the bottom bend in that 5* your setting it at? a fin can slow you down, suck you under, and trip you up, play with it a little at a time and see what happens , just my 2 cents

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/5/2012 5:51 AM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		It is actually pretty hard to measure the fin. I tried to measure off the straightest part of it and account for the AOA on the sponson. I'm gonna back the tuck off and I'm also working on some new linkage for the rudder. Another owner set it up with a z bend and a l bend with a retainer I guess. Any way it had the slightest bit of slop so I'm getting rid of it.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/7/2012 2:24 AM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		ok well i set the strut angle to 0. Put the bracket for the fin at 90. I set up a straight edge across the top of the two sponsons and measured off of that. It still has the same tendency to want to submarine. Is the water too choppy? i thought it was much more mild then water one would encounter in a heat race. I really need this boat to be able to run 6 solid laps in race water. I'm still not 100 percent sure why it is subing, seems to be fine on one pass and then sub on the next. what gives.

At low speed it seems like there is a lot of wetted surface, is that normal? Should i put the wing on to hold the stern down at higher speeds? I was thinking i could mod the tips of the sponsons to have some sort of an anti submarine pad. Would it be unadvised to attempt that? Lowering the strut from 7/8 to 3/4 would raise the front end right?

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/7/2012 4:44 AM   
toyotatruckin



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Status: offline 		No that water is not to choppy at all (at least whats in your video) and you adjusted your turn fin and it didnt fix it-Next lol
you have the right idea on the strut, I would suggest you mark your strut where it is right now so you can get back to that point, these little boats react to the finest adjustments especially the faster you make them go, Id also say your correct that the wake from the last lap is whats tripping you up on the second lap so something in your ride is too loose you might try removing a little angle from your strut setting

I wouldnt put the wing back on, you keep stuffing it and it will come back off anyway lol

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/8/2012 12:40 AM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		Good point in the wing. Didn't think about that. I will be back at it tomorrow. (had a side job today). Gonna turn my focus to the strut height angle and cg. Jerry dunlap said he doesn't think the fin would do that.

Thanks for the help everyone

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/8/2012 1:28 PM   
FX4L2CX


 

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Status: offline 		I have seen boats that were set up perfectly and not so perfectly..and they still submarine from time to time....it just happens sometimes. My Vegas used to do it also, but I haven't raced it in a couple of years so it hasn't seen race water in a while. I will check my strut height and angle and get back with you. I can tell you that once you start flirting with the 50 mph mark, it does start to do strange things, but I'm pretty sure it was not designed to go that fast...I had to put about 6 oz. on the left sponson to smooth it out ( I think it was lifting from torque). When I was using that 2137/3 prop I had to launch it pretty fast to keep it from cavitating...I'm not sure if you are used to doing that with an electric version and that may be why you can't get that prop to work.

lowering the strut will raise the stern and lower the bow..

Thanks, Kevin



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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/9/2012 2:41 PM   
amax



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Status: offline 		I would move the CG back a little and work with strut\prop depth, I have experienced a similar problem but a bit more extreme with 3 blade props running to deep and causing the boat to porpoise and eventually Sub. I generally don't see it from a 2 blade prop because they don't have the "Lift" a 3 blade tends to have. Having your CG forward makes the stern Lighter, making it easier for a prop to "Lift" the stern(especially at high RPMs). The props most commonly used a considered "Surface Props" and are designed to ride Just under the waters "Surface" and even Breaking the Surface . When the prop is To Deep it will Try to "Lift" itself to The Surface, the faster it turns the harder it works to do so. Ideally you want your prop Just Deep enough to Stop it from Slipping.
My theory as to why it seams to Trip over it's wake is: because as the boat does a Hop over the wake the bow is dropping faster than the transom, and the transom doesn't have enough of the weight to Push the Prop Down. Getting your CG right is not Just how it rides On the Water, you also have to consider how it will FLY and Land. You need the CG Just far enough back to Hold the Prop Down\Steady and Not allow the prop to just Free Float up and down, it's a Constant Balancing Act that Changes from moment to moment.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/9/2012 5:40 PM   
toyotatruckin



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Status: offline 		Amax added some good info, remember one little change at a time and youll be good!

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/9/2012 6:53 PM   
asupervee72


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amax

I would move the CG back a little and work with strut\prop depth, I have experienced a similar problem but a bit more extreme with 3 blade props running to deep and causing the boat to porpoise and eventually Sub. I generally don't see it from a 2 blade prop because they don't have the ''Lift'' a 3 blade tends to have. Having your CG forward makes the stern Lighter, making it easier for a prop to ''Lift'' the stern(especially at high RPMs). The props most commonly used a considered ''Surface Props'' and are designed to ride Just under the waters ''Surface'' and even Breaking the Surface . When the prop is To Deep it will Try to ''Lift'' itself to The Surface, the faster it turns the harder it works to do so. Ideally you want your prop Just Deep enough to Stop it from Slipping.
My theory as to why it seams to Trip over it's wake is: because as the boat does a Hop over the wake the bow is dropping faster than the transom, and the transom doesn't have enough of the weight to Push the Prop Down. Getting your CG right is not Just how it rides On the Water, you also have to consider how it will FLY and Land. You need the CG Just far enough back to Hold the Prop Down\Steady and Not allow the prop to just Free Float up and down, it's a Constant Balancing Act that Changes from moment to moment.


I like your theory as to why it is tripping up. I will be at the lake today making SMALL changes. For some reason i always felt like it was the fin that was sucking me back down, but after putting it here there and everywhere with similar results I am definitely redirecting my attention to the stern.

Once again thank you for everyone's input, probably saved me tons of time.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/17/2012 9:30 PM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		Latest update is I put a less powerful p spec motor in and also did some Sanding in the sponsons. They had a little bit of rocker side to side and I took off as much material as I could from the aft of the sponson to try put more of a pos angle an them in an attempt to get more lift. I also lightned the load by removing some extra resin and wood reinforcing but I maintained structural soundness.

Seems to do much better up on plane and though the corner but exiting corners I seem to fall off a little and scrub a lot of speed. Could this be a result of having strut to high or is it more likely the fin?

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/17/2012 11:38 PM   
beaverboy


 

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Status: offline 		What is the gross weight of your MV?

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/19/2012 12:28 AM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		Ready to hit the water the post office scale said she weighed 6 lbs 1.1oz. Seems heavy huh?

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/19/2012 1:13 AM   
Jerry Dunlap


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: asupervee72

Ready to hit the water the post office scale said she weighed 6 lbs 1.1oz. Seems heavy huh?


That's fairly heavy for a 30" hydroplane.

JD

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/19/2012 5:00 AM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		the AQ site says the nitro MV deuce is 5lbs rtr so im not sure where the extra pound is coming from, thinking most of it is the batteries.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/19/2012 10:50 PM   
Jerry Dunlap


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: asupervee72

the AQ site says the nitro MV deuce is 5lbs rtr so im not sure where the extra pound is coming from, thinking most of it is the batteries.


Batteries definitely add to the overall weight.

JD

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 4/23/2012 1:24 AM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		after looking over the set up a little more I think different batteries may be in order. On a 3 min run of almost wot i burned through 3000 mah so lugging around 6600 in the form of 2 4s cells at 3300 mah a piece, wired in parallel of course. Weight with out Batts is closer to 4.5 lbs if i remember correctly. I did try out some 2s 5000 mah 20c packs but they didn't seem to have to dump I want.

Boat is running much better now though.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 5/14/2012 1:22 AM   
kilr95ss



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Status: offline 		Going to run some 50% nitro in my stock Deuce, should I leave the head shims alone or remove 1 or all?

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 5/15/2012 3:56 AM   
G4Bama


 

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Status: offline 		Experiment...I have ran 50% and 40% and settled on Byrons 40/12. Read this thread towards the middle pages and AMAX and ToyotaTrucking have good insight on the shims and head spacing. You and I are in the same city. Where do you run your boat?

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 5/15/2012 1:58 PM   
amax



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Status: offline 		When you Step Up the Nitro% you need to put the motor through a Break In Period Again. Start with all shims in for a tank or two and see how it likes it, how the plug is burning, tunability, etc.. If your Not burning plugs up Quick remove a shim and try it again. Make Sure you run Cold Plugs, I have a a lot of good luck with McCoy MC9's running 50% and up. I have Never Touched one of the engines from the Deuce so I'm not sure of specific Head Clearance(Squish) or Combustion Chamber Volume\ Compression Ratio etc.. You just have to experiment. Ideally you want the head to piston clearance tight .004" to .006" in. and adjust chamber volume to the compression ratio you want\need.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 5/15/2012 10:18 PM   
kilr95ss



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Status: offline 		Thanks! Waiting on my MC9s to come in now, they should be here by the weekend. Think I'll get me some plastigauge and check the head clearance.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 5/16/2012 2:06 PM   
amax



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Status: offline 		because of the head shape at the squish band, plastigage is not very accurate at that tight of a gap (FYI a piece of notebook paper is Approximately .0035" to .004"in just for reference) a good set of Calipers and some Small Solder works a Little better.
The Squish band on the head Looks Almost Flat but is is actually tapered somewhere around 3* degrees the very outer edge of the squish band is your Tight area and where you want to set clearance.
bend the end of the solder so it will go in the glow plug hole and the tip will touch the side of the cylinder wall, then turn the crank over a couple times to squish the solder, remove it and measure the tip with the callipers.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 5/17/2012 1:34 AM   
kilr95ss



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Status: offline 		Pretty clever tip right there!

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 5/17/2012 1:55 PM   
amax



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Status: offline 		It's not mine it's an Old Trick. Make sure you get the smallest solder you can find your trying to squish it down to the thickness of a piece of paper.

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RE: AquaCraft U-18 Miss Vegas Hydro Thread_Make it Fast! - 6/22/2012 4:01 AM   
kilr95ss



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Status: offline 		Anyone have a cowl they want to get rid of?

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