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A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/7/2006 9:01:58 PM   
Jerrak


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Alachua, FL, USA
Status: offline
Greetings All,

Man I’m glad I found this forum! A treasure trove of info for a novice like myself. I bought a Spirit 100 in 1993 and built the inner wing halves. The thing sat in my closet until two weeks ago. I ran across it while cleaning, started working on it again, and now have it almost ready to skin. I have found many solutions to building problems on this forum, however, a few remain. If anyone can help me out, I would appreciate it.

1) Will the CA hold up for 13 years? Everything seems straight and solid, but I’m wondering if I should hit the inner wing sections with another shot of glue.

2) I have built and flown a few gas powered planes with one piece wings. The two piece wing with the joiner box/rod makes me nervous. Does the rod have to fit very tightly in the box or is a slight wiggle OK? Is most of the strength derived from the wing bolts?

3) Can I throw this model down a hill for trim flights? I’m fairly strong and 6’ tall, but I don’t know if I can accelerate it to a sufficient speed.

4) Anyone live near Alachua, Fl (just north of Gainesville)? I would gladly buy someone a rib-eye at Conestoga’s if they show me how to use a hi-start. I have read a lot about hi-start launches, and I’m absolutely sure I can handle it. This is exactly how I felt about landing my first powered plane before I cart-wheeled it down the runway. The thought of watching 50 hours of work drug across the ground by a giant rubber band turns my stomach.

Anyway, I’m Tom from Alachua Fl. I do biomedical research at the University of Florida. My favorite color is green…….Pleasure to meet y’all.

Tom
       Post #: 1

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/7/2006 9:59:00 PM   
jbrandon


 

Posts: 15
Joined: 1/18/2006
From: Kansas City, MO, USA
Status: offline
I built a Sprit 100 for my return to the hobby. I have been very happy with it. It is strong, light and a very decent flyer. Currently my 78 year old father in law is using it to learn to fly and even with some hard landings it is holding up very well.

I was concerned with the plywood joiner and was a little afraid of launching on a winch but with a soft foot it goes straight up the line. I did have to move the tow hook forward 1/8” for him, just a little too much on the edge for his flying skills. Mine also rattles when shook and it is the wing joiner, the built up is not as tight as a good rod and tube system. Also, I did not wrap the joiner box with fishing line like they suggested so I will always worry a bit. But back in the 80’s we never did either and never broke a wing at the joiner area.

As far as CA holding up for that many years, I would have to say that it will but I surely would take it easy. I have two old planes (from the 80’s) stored in the attic and have flown them but they have since been retired. Mainly because I don’t trust the construction anymore. They were strong in their day but after setting in a 100 deg plus heat and below freezing cold I don’t want to destroy them.

(in reply to Jerrak)
       Post #: 2

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/7/2006 10:01:32 PM   
evan-RCU



Posts: 2795
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jerrak

Greetings All,

Man I’m glad I found this forum! A treasure trove of info for a novice like myself. I bought a Spirit 100 in 1993 and built the inner wing halves. The thing sat in my closet until two weeks ago. I ran across it while cleaning, started working on it again, and now have it almost ready to skin. I have found many solutions to building problems on this forum, however, a few remain. If anyone can help me out, I would appreciate it.

1) Will the CA hold up for 13 years? Everything seems straight and solid, but I’m wondering if I should hit the inner wing sections with another shot of glue. Yes, within reason, I have 30 year old airplanes that were built with Hot Stuff the firs CA.

2) I have built and flown a few gas powered planes with one piece wings. The two piece wing with the joiner box/rod makes me nervous. Does the rod have to fit very tightly in the box or is a slight wiggle OK? Is most of the strength derived from the wing bolts?
Depends on the design, slight wobble is ok.

3) Can I throw this model down a hill for trim flights? I’m fairly strong and 6’ tall, but I don’t know if I can accelerate it to a sufficient speed. Yes that is the normal way to do it, these need very little speed to fly, a gentle toss should do it.

4) Anyone live near Alachua, Fl (just north of Gainesville)? I would gladly buy someone a rib-eye at Conestoga’s if they show me how to use a hi-start. I have read a lot about hi-start launches, and I’m absolutely sure I can handle it. This is exactly how I felt about landing my first powered plane before I cart-wheeled it down the runway. The thought of watching 50 hours of work drug across the ground by a giant rubber band turns my stomach. Sorry I don't

Anyway, I’m Tom from Alachua Fl. I do biomedical research at the University of Florida. My favorite color is green…….Pleasure to meet y’all.
Welcome Tom!!!

Tom




_____________________________

Revver #125, Pico Owners Club #3
R/C Anonymous. My name is Evan and I have not flown for 14 hours.

(in reply to Jerrak)
       Post #: 3

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/8/2006 1:34:13 AM   
Jerrak


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Alachua, FL, USA
Status: offline
Thanks guys, sounds like I should be alright. No takers on the lesson for steak deal? Conestoga's usually cooks a mean rib-eye.

Thanks again,
Tom

(in reply to evan-RCU)
       Post #: 4

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/8/2006 7:53:44 AM   
Slope Flyer UK


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Leicester, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
Hi there !.

I'm from the UK.

If you are unsure, just run some fresh CA over the joints again. I would suggest using some epoxy resin around the wing joiner tube locations in the wings, as this will be a high stress point.

Always best to be safe, than sorry.....

(in reply to Jerrak)
       Post #: 5

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/14/2006 3:48:55 PM   
Jerrak


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Alachua, FL, USA
Status: offline
My spirit 100 is almost complete! I can't wait to give 'er a toss and see what happens. Another question has come up and I'm hoping someone here might have experience with vintage equipment and be able to help me. I have a Futaba 7UAF Tx that I bought in the early 90's. I'm having trouble setting up the CROW. The best I seem to be able to do is set up flaperons (ailerons on ch 1 & 7) with the ailerons deflecting upwards and tie the flaps into the dial (ch 6 I think). I would need to drop the flaps then engage the flaperons. Does anyone know how I can mix dual ailerons with the flaps so I can throw one switch to enter CROW? I am new to a lot of this terminology so please excuse me if I screwedup this post.

Thanks for any help!

Tom

(in reply to Slope Flyer UK)
       Post #: 6

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/14/2006 6:38:49 PM   
BMatthews



Posts: 9053
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
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Until you get into contest flying I wouldn't worry about any crow settings. Just use the flaps on their own and don't even bother with mixing in the ailerons for now. The Spirit airfoil is one that does not need a lot of camber changing to get the best performance like some high zoot F3B airfoils. Concentrate on staying up before you worry about coming down on demand..

Surely there must be some soaring clubs down your way? Get connected with them for some help on trimming and to get access to some launching equipment.

Good luck with your efforts.

_____________________________

Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

(in reply to Jerrak)
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RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/14/2006 8:30:44 PM   
slopemeno



Posts: 448
Joined: 5/24/2003
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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As far as your flaps go, I would try 90 degree flaps only, with some serious elevator compensation mixed in. A Spirit should just about go into reverse set up like that. I have a heavy 100" slope racer that lands at a crawl coming about 20 degrees nose down with the 90 degree flaps. Hopefully your flaps are bottom hinged, and your flap servo horns are angled rearward, which will make it easier.

(in reply to BMatthews)
       Post #: 8

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/14/2006 9:39:03 PM   
Jerrak


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Alachua, FL, USA
Status: offline
Thanks guys, I'll use flaps alone for the time being. Web search brings up a club called "Gainesville Area Soaring Society" but the link has been dead for at least two weeks (when I first checked it.) I think they may have gone belly up. I can't find anything else close. I bought a hi-start so I have this brilliant idea to stretch it out a few hundred feet, hook up my bird, and hope for the best. I have limited experience with glow-plug planes and electric gliders so I figure I have a fighting chance.

Thanks again,
Tom

(in reply to slopemeno)
       Post #: 9

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/15/2006 9:37:01 AM   
Hans Dahl Christensen


 

Posts: 81
Joined: 1/23/2006
From: Randers, DENMARK
Status: offline
Hello Jerrak.

I think you will have a lot more than a fighting chanse !!

BUT : You ougth to look into : www.gliders.dk - www.f3j.dk - www.igg-sverige.se - www.iggnorge.com - www.piotrp.dk

That might inspire you !!

KR

hld - OY-9901

(in reply to Jerrak)
       Post #: 10

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/16/2006 6:22:30 PM   
BMatthews



Posts: 9053
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
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If you've flown other models successfuly then you won't have a problem.

The only thing to add if you're going to be doing this on your own. Be sure to really HEAVE that model at the launch time. I know it's hard to separate what you're feeling with all the line pull and whatnot but it is very important to ensure that the model is leaving your hand with full flying speed. The line pull is acting like an artificially very heavy wing loading and at launch the model is very susceptable to a stall and snap into the dirt. A good strong javelin like launch effort will avoid a nasty ending.

_____________________________

Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

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RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 6/17/2006 3:10:35 AM   
Jerrak


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Alachua, FL, USA
Status: offline
The flying and landing don't concern me. The idea of generating a boatload of potential energy and releasing it on my airplane does concern me :-) I can cut a throttle. I am not sure how to turn off a hi-start once I release the glider. I'm sure I'll be fine, but It is a bit intimidating. Though, I did find a few videos of hi-start launches that made me feel much more at ease. I think I can be ready to go in a week or two. I'll post a report of how it went.

Thanks for the comments. They have been very helpful.

Tom

(in reply to Jerrak)
       Post #: 12

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 7/5/2006 7:17:32 PM   
Jerrak


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Alachua, FL, USA
Status: offline
Sorry to bump this up again, but my wife and co-workers refuse to have any more conversations with me about RC sailplanes. Anyway, the plane ended up being fairly heavy. It took 10X230 gr lead semi-wadcutter .45s to bring the CG up to the spar. This is significantly more weight than the 20 or so BBs that they show on the plans. Also took one .45 in a wing tip to balance left to right. I took the thing in my back yard and tried to run with the thing held above my head. I had to be pretty much at full speed before it felt weightless. I thought "There is no way I can accelerate this thing to a flying speed from a hand toss." I took it to a park on a slightly breezy day and tried the running thing again. I could get it to float at a brisk jog with the headwind. I finally screwed up my courage and heaved the thing forward. Ballooned up to 10' or so....dropped the nose and headed for terra firma....overcompensated with the elevator and repeated the up-down thing, but managed to skim it along the ground to a stop. Encouraged that it didn't just javelin into the ground 5' in front of me, I tried again except.......this time, I took the instructions seriously when they say to point the nose slightly down when you throw it. Amazing! I would have never guessed it could glide that far from a throw. probably 125-150'. I'm off to vacation for a week, but when I return, I'm ready to try the high-start.

Once again....sorry for the "nothing new here" nature of my post, but I had to tell someone :-)

See ya,
Tom

(in reply to Jerrak)
       Post #: 13

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 7/6/2006 7:16:14 AM   
slopemeno



Posts: 448
Joined: 5/24/2003
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Status: offline
Tom-
Everybody knows that the H&G #68 200gn semi wadcutter is the preferred noseweight....

Just kidding man. Heres the skinny on the Spirit. They were designed to be very docile. They run excessive decalage (wing -v- tail angle) and usually carry too much nose weight to compensate. You can shim up the trailing edge of the wing slightly, and remove some of that noseweight. After you get the plane trimmed start inching that CG back until its 1/8"-1/4" behind the spar. The plane will signal lift and core thermals really well set up like that. The Charles River Soaring site has a lot of tips for the Spirit.

(in reply to Jerrak)
       Post #: 14

RE: A few questions on my first sailplane - 7/6/2006 4:11:44 PM   
da Rock



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Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
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Kewl narrative...... Keep up the good/brave work. You've braved it out and done all the sensible things and discovered that what you thought would work did.

About bungee launching....... The important detail pertains to the location of the towhook. The location of it will do more to decide how stable or twitchy the launches are. It's location is relative to the CG location and since you've balanced the CG to the plans, then the plans location for the hook will be safe enough.

Most gliders will take all the force you can walk back into the rubber. That force isn't exactly what an experienced glider guider would do on the first launch however. As with everything, you have to have the right technique, and you learn that by doing. So hook up the glider and walk back some. Watch the string and the rubber. When you've got them both off the ground, ask yourself if the pull is about 3X the weight of that glider. grin..... Of course, who can feel if a horizontal pull is like 3x the vertical pull..... If you think you can pull more then do it. When you've gotten back so far that the pull scares you, then walk about 1/4 the way back to where you first made a pull estimate. Then hold the glider over your head. If it's easy to do, then you maybe need to step back just a few feet. Firm is what you're looking to feel.

Point the nose up at about a 45degree angle. Now, hold it a second and look at that beautiful airplane. Why? Because you want to look closely at the ON/OFF switch you dummy. It's dead easy to launch gliders with the RX turned off. OK? Now, About the 45degrees..... it usually won't be enough for your best launches, but right now you don't want to launch her into an instant stall. And point her too straight up and that could happen.

Now pull her back a bit so you can "throw" and "throw". If you've trimmed her on your trimming throws so she always sails without porpoising and goes a long way, she'll almost instantly turn that 45degrees into whatever is perfect for her. By the time you've got your throwing hand to the TX she will have started to CLIMB LIKE A.... A..... jeez..... A GLIDER ON A HIGHSTART (there ain't nothing else that climbs like that... so.....)

You may have to steer left or right. Try to leave the elevator alone on the first launches. Be easy, because she's going way faster than trim speed. What a glider does is convert it's weight into speed. With the highstart pulling on the towhook, a glider thinks it's suddenly gotten LOTS heavier. That all it thinks. But it then flies as fast as it would if it was 3 or 4 or 5 times heavier. And it's "heaviness" isn't coming from straight down, it's coming from the pin that's holding the highstart into the ground. So the glider will "trim" itself as if the pin was straight down. And fly a very fast arc whose center is that pin.

Watch the line and when the glider has gotten through about 70% of that arc try to judge if she's started to slow down somewhat. If she has then pull UP. If she hasn't, then I bet she's made it to 70% while you were trying to figure out if she's slowing down..... grin.... so pull some UP.

With luck, you will hear a ping and a POP. And she will probably start into a climb and stall unless you let go of that UP. And by golly..... you and she are on your way...... dang if I ain't got a tear in my eye...... remembering.....

The ping will be the parachute ring coming off the towhook. The POP will be the chute being pulled open suddenly by the remaining tension in the bungee. There aren't any sounds more beautiful than those. Good thing, because with thermal soaring, we really spend way more time listening to those two sounds than we do soaring. As soon as you hear the ping, get off the UP stick.

Hey, I wish you luck and wish I still lived near a decent thermal site. I haven't heard that ping-pop in way too long and am much the poorer for it. You are a very rich person.

BTW, I guarantee my advice. The guarantee: "If you're not entirely satisfied, there will be no additional charge."

< Message edited by darock -- 7/6/2006 4:19:25 PM >

(in reply to slopemeno)