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TL01 Setup - 12/24/2002 6:18:55 PM   
james_dean5


 

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The setup on my TL01 Lancer seems to be fine. I was wondering what esc and motor upgrades I could get for around $100. I don't want to go crazy just push the car a little harder through the staight aways. Maybe achieve 30mph with a 20T motor if it's possible. I upgraded to bearings and the tranny. That gave me about 6mph.

Thanks
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How did you measure that ? - 12/26/2002 12:01:21 AM   
Karl the Mechan


 

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Just curious

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Measurement - 12/26/2002 6:27:32 PM   
james_dean5


 

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Well I was able to keep up with several cars that race at local track here. I was also able to keep up with two nitro trucks that friends have. I lag in the cornering and long straight runs. All reports indicate the TL01 is capable of 15-17mph straight out the box. So with that in mind I used a formula that is based on the 1.25" radius of the tires and 18,000 rpm of the stock motor divided by the gear ratio times 168 and it is pretty close. It looks something like this:

This is no upgrade
18,000 X 1.25 = 22,500
7.96 X 168 = 1337.28
22,500/1337.28 = 16.82 then add 5% for the bearings

it gives you 17.6 MPH

This is an upgraded tranny
18,000 X 1.25 = 22,500
5.95 X 168 = 999.6
22,500/999.6=22.51 then add 5% for the bearings

it gives you 23.6 MPH

This is what I was told to expect with an upgraded transmission and bearings, and every article I read supports these numbers. I was wondering if anyone had any ideal of what type of performance increase I could expect from an ESC and maybe a 20T motor. 10%, 20%, 30%???

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TL01 Setup - 12/31/2002 6:11:02 AM   
Dekz


 

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well, I just put my TL01 together christmas day and so far it's awsome. But it was too slow for me =)
so on boxing day I bought me some new tires, and a used speed gem 14T motor. Just putting in the motor made it easily twice as fast it goes pretty damn fast now. And i'm still running a MSC. So after I buy another battery pack next thing on my list is ESC then my car will prolly be REALLY fast.


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TL01 Setup - 12/31/2002 6:26:50 AM   
james_dean5


 

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Deks - Try adding bearings. Tower has the complete set for under $30. I bought the speed tuned upgrade from them as well ($8.99). It gives you about 5mph right out of the box. You can also get a 23T pinion. Your top speed with a standard motor should be around 30 mph. With a 14T motor I bet you can get maybe 40 or more. Go for the radial tires as well. I have two and the one with radials is just a little faster. Slicks might do well on hot days but it rarely gets over 50 here now. Let me know how it goes.

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TL01 Setup - 12/31/2002 8:27:32 AM   
Dekz


 

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well #1 on my list is ESC, I have radials on it right now. What would the advantages and disadvantages of a 23T pnion be? bearings maybe after ESC.


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TL01 Setup - 12/31/2002 8:48:23 AM   
james_dean5


 

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Bearings usually add about 5% depending on the car. An esc is the most important. The advantage of a 23T pinion would be more top end. For track racing it gives you slower pickup on short runs, but in a long straight it gives you the most speed. The 19T without bearings and a stock motor with a msc you should be able to do about 14 or 15 mph. With a 23T pinion you should get about 17mph roughly. Add the bearings and your 14T motor along with an esc you could do 30mph easy. Buy the upgrade speed tuned tranny hop-up and you will easily go much faster.

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TL01 Setup - 12/31/2002 9:29:41 AM   
Dekz


 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by james_dean5
Buy the upgrade speed tuned tranny hop-up and you will easily go much faster. [/QUOTE]

Any more information on this? I really have no idea what u'r talkin about.

As far as pinion goes, I think I'd rather have the acceleration than the top speed.


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THAT CALCULATION IS WRONG. - 1/2/2003 7:34:47 PM   
Karl the Mechan


 

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¡§Keeping up with two nitro-trucks, except lagging in the cornering and long straight runs¡¨
Umm, if you lag in the corners AND the straights, which part of the track did you keep up with the nitro¡¦s? I may be missing a point here, keeping in mind English is only my second language ƒº

Hi there James_dean5, I can understand the need for speed and that you¡¦ve gathered information about how to estimate the car¡¦s tempo. I choose to believe you¡¦ve been misguided in the understanding of velocity and forces involved. Let¡¦s go through the numbers step by step:

THE 17,6 MPH (28,1 Km/h) CALCULATION:
Motor revs are depending on load, and we have absolutely no way of telling the revs while driving. If the motor revs 18000 at idle, it will go slower when load is applied. But let¡¦s ASSUME your motor spins at 18000:

18000 (motor-rpm) / 7,96 (std gearing) = 2261,3 (wheel-rpm). The wheel spins 2261,3 rounds per minute.
Pi (3,14) x d (wheel diametre, 65mm) = 204 mm = 20,4 cm. The wheel travels 20,4 cm per revolution.
2261,3 (wheel-rpm) x 20,4 cm = 46124,4 (cm per minute) = 0,46124 (Km per min)
0,46124 (Km/min) x 60 (min per hour) = 27,67 Km/h (17,3Mph). THEORETICAL speed.

¡§Add 5% for the bearings ???¡¨
How do you make a motor spin faster if you add bearings on the gears and wheels? The motor doesn¡¦t know that...? If bearings are to make a motor rev faster, they should be placed on the motor-shaft. To replace the metal/bronze bushings.
In real life, the gearboxes and axles causes drag. Add bearings, and they cause LESS drag. Of course the car will go faster with bearings but that also means the motor will rev faster. In your 17,6 MPH calculation it would rev at 18313.

THE 23,6 (37,7 Km/h) MPH CALCULATION:
By ¡§upgraded tranny¡¨ I take it you mean the ¡§53342 TL01 speed-tuned gear set¡¨. I had no idea what gear-change it resulted in but thanks for telling me. Here we go:

18000 (motor-rpm) / 5,96 (new gearing) = 3020,1 (wheel-rpm).
Pi (3,14) x d (65mm) = 204 mm = 20,4 cm. The wheel still travels 20,4 cm per revolution.
3020,1 x 20,4 cm = 61610,7 (cm/min) = 0, 616107 (Km/min)
0, 616107 (Km/min) x 60 (min/hour) = 36,97 Km/h (23,1Mph). Again THEORETICAL speed.


LOAD
Motor revs are depending on load.
- Gearboxes/axles rolling resistance. Which increases with increasing revs.
- Wheel rolling resistance. Rubber compound ans inserts play a role here.
- Wind resistance. Cd x A. (Resistance coefficient x fronal area) Which increases with the square of velocity.
Add all these loads.

To confuse matters further, we must take into concideration the CENTRIFUGAL FORCES.
When a wheel rotates fast, it expands. Making its diametre larger than its original 65 mm. Therefore it will travel MORE than 20,4 cm per revolution. Meaning, the car will go faster. The faster the wheel rotates, the more it expands.

SUM UP
We can calculate revs and load all day long, it will only give us theoretical figures. Even a Tamiya speed-checker doesn¡¦t give anything but theory. To find out how fast the car really goes, we need to go out and test it with a spped-trap or a laser-gun. Simple as that.

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TL01 Setup - 1/2/2003 7:47:17 PM   
james_dean5


 

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As I said in the posted reply "pretty close". The calculations are based on ideal conditions with all new parts. As batteries start to wear and so on the cars performance will decrease. As far as keeping up with nitros, this was no a race and the vehicles weighed almost twice as much as my car. On short runs I was very competitive such as corners and short straight aways. Long runs There is no way a pretty much stock electric will keep up with a gas burning engine. With the right setup however it can. I was inquiring about a motor upgrade and not boosting about the cars performance. If you have anything constructive to add please do so. I am upgrading to an esc and a dyno motor today and Sunday at the track I can give you the exact speeds from the gun. As I said if you use the formula for any car nitro or electric the numbers are "pretty close".

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"If you have anything constructive to add please d... - 1/3/2003 6:31:15 PM   
Karl the Mechan


 

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Oh but I just did. Now pay attention
Your initial question was how much speed to expect after a $100 motor/esc upgrade.

"SUM UP
We can calculate revs and load all day long, it will only give us theoretical figures. "

Meaning : No one can answer that without actually trying it out with a similar car.

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Wow that was constructive - 1/3/2003 6:33:17 PM   
james_dean5


 

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So I take you have nothing to add. Thanks anyways.

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Update - 1/10/2003 7:13:48 PM   
james_dean5


 

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I have upgraded the TL-01s I have and surprisingly enough I want more out of them. I check the numbers again and came up with this:

26,000 X 1.25 = 32,500
5.39 X 168 =906
32,500/9.06 =35.87 mph

I had a neighbor who let me run it through his radar (He works for the State Police in VA., USA). Three runs with each car we saw a top speed of 33mph. Not too far off the mark. Not too far off and you are really close to the actual number.

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       Post #: 13

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