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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/17/2007 8:27 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		Next came the shaping of the stab TE: I changed my mind on how to seal the gap, more on this later.

I used a PVC tube of appropriate OD to shape the TE to the required concave shape.

And finally I added the spacer sheet to the elevators LE.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/18/2007 10:20 AM   
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quote:

Next came the shaping of the stab TE: I changed my mind on how to seal the gap, more on this later.

Here is what I meant. The pic shows 3 different ways to seal the hinge gap:



- B is the most common and easiest to deal with since it involves simple triangle stock

- C is also used but it is more involved since it requires you to sand down the sheeting to a certain depth and it can be dangerous or at least time-consuming

- A is what I chose: instead of sanding down the already built structure I opted to use it to seal the gap.

The little concave-shaped foil will be added later on and it will probably be fiberglass.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/19/2007 6:39 AM   
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Status: offline 		Giacomo,

A little inspiration for you. These are all great videos!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDe378Ac4ao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hdWPsQ-sEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7DV11UkWws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uit-PDJ7Pk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA0OSYnL_fc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdJMMSsE5JY

Ciao!

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/19/2007 6:56 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		Yes, great videos! The first low pass is amazing!

Here are the updates of these days... basically add a block, trim it, shape it and add another block... quite boring.

Depending on the adhesive you use each block 'adding' may require a day to cure... I used GG and epoxy and this is why it took me a few days to get a few blocks in place.

I AB-used of GG when I added the spacer sheet: the results can be seen in the first pic; no problem anyway, GG sands easily but do yourself a favour and mask the sheeting!

After the trimming I drew the gudgeon slots onto the spacer sheet and cut them.

Tip: I found the DUBRO hinge tool + marker very useful to draw a perfect centerline on TEs.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/19/2007 7:02 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		Next comes the hinge line. Before that I opened the holes through the compensating tab all the way to the tip in the cleanest possible way: I opted for a sharpened threaded rod as it actually 'files' the wood.

I tack-glued the nyrod in place (ONTO the centerline please) with the rod inside to assure straightness.

Next I carved the groove channel into the LE block using my drill press and a simple jig.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/19/2007 7:08 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		The LE blocks require good old epoxy + microballons to seal down everything and fill the square groove around the circular nyrod.

Next the trimming and shaping and then the LAST block, the compensating tab LE, this time CA!!!

Finally the rounding and the cutting of the gudgeon slots through the LE.

Rod trial-fit and completed elevators (minus final filling and sanding).

Gudgeons will be done tomorrow, along with filling and final sanding = fiberglass preparation.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/20/2007 8:24 AM   
teresos



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Status: offline 		Hi Giacomo.....
Sorry for the delay, I had a H.D failure...so... , , but I'm here again.

Cockpit PART 1.

First you have to splite up (in plan ) the cockpit into 2 Level's.
1: Windshield ( lite ply )
2: Top of cockpit ( balsa ) ...foto 1...

Cut from lite ply the piece with the notch (which is the central one of the front windshield)
following the curves of the basic design .Then also cut 2 pieces for the side windows just
like Dumas desing ... foto 2-3-4-5

Of course you musten't forget that the actual dimensions of the side windshield are
in the ground plan ... foto 6

The mod you have to carry out here, is to increase the thickness of the windshield
frame from 2mm to 3-4mm . It's up to you !! ...foto 7





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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/20/2007 11:45 AM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		WOW! Wonderful! Thank you very much!

I'll finish with the stab/elevator and then I'll start it!

I was thinking about making one and use it as a plug for a composite version... we'll see.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/20/2007 1:58 PM   
Baldeagle


 

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Status: offline 		Very nice work. Rich

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/20/2007 4:52 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		Thank you Rich. Glad you stopped by!

Today I was finally able to hinge the elevators to the stab.

I made the gudgeons first and opened their slots into the stab TE next. The gudgeons you see will soon be replaced with slightly different ones, maybe G10 instead of birch ply.

The first hinging test showed something I expected: interference between the compensating tab LE and the stab. This is due to the totally different 'rotation' of the tab.

No matter, just trim it down a little more... until it clears the TE.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/20/2007 4:59 PM   
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Status: offline 		The detail pic shows why one of the gudgeon slot is wider than the other: there will be the elevator control horn, G10 custom made.

One last thing to do before filling and final sanding is to insert those tiny ply discs to support the locking pins/screws on both sides of the sheeting.

Everything is now filled and ready for final sanding... I hate it, how much is 'final'? is that really finished? is everything 'really' ok? there must be an end to things!!!

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/22/2007 1:01 PM   
teresos



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Cockpit PART 2

After you have cut the 3 pieces, you must glue them in the spots shown in ...photo 1... with a small
amount of C.A in order to be stabilised in their place . You must pay attention to the right angle
of the piece with the notch .
Now it's time for the upper part of the cockpit witch you will also divide in 3 levels...photo 2...
witch are made from scrap of balsa ,joined together . ...photo 3...
I didn't use a block of balsa because of the weight .

1 level is totally flat from side to side ...photo 4...
2 level is made with 3 pieces ...photo 5...
3 level is made with 4 pieces ...photo 6...

The pieces have the shape you see in the pictures and they are put in a specific way in order
to create the right curves of the cockpit ...photo 7...

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/22/2007 2:17 PM   
teresos



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Cockpit PART 3

After you glue the 3 levels together ,you must glue the whole construction on the notch and
the side windshields ...photo 1... ( I used epoxy ).
Finally , what you will see ,is shown in ...photo 2-3...

Now, it's time to cut the frond windows. Use one piece of cartboard to create the mould of the
first window. At the base of the window ,you must follow the curve of the fuse. Empty the cardboard
to create the frame of the window.Put the cardboard on a lite ply , cut the 1st window .Reverse the cardboard,
cut ,and you have the 2nd window ...photo 4-a-b-c ...

If you want the front windows to have better contactwith the fuse, you must take out the angle from the inner
side of the windows ...photo 5...
I added two little pieces of 2mm sheeting, following the curve of the windows ...photo 6-7-8...

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/22/2007 2:51 PM   
teresos



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Cockpit LAST PART.

Now you can take the two windows and glue them steadily in their place. ...photo 1...
After the glues are dried well, shake a little the whole cockpit to break the ends of the C.A glue .
Flip over the cockpit and glue 2 pieces of balsa in order to support the construction ...photo 2...

One last mod you must do: You must cut 2 pieces of lite ply and gluethem at the back side
of the cockpit . ...photo 3-4 ... This adds more support, and the little notches hold the
cockpit steadily in it's place ...photo 5-6-7 ...

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/22/2007 3:13 PM   
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Finally you must sand balsa to shape...(Yes...sanding...and..triming......again..),to bring
the cockpit in the desired angles ...photo 1-2-3 ...

You must not forget to put the cockpit almost 2mm higher than the fuse so when you put
the sheeting they will be in the same line. ...photo 4-5 ...

And some photos from the inside ....photo 6-7-8 ...


Good Luck .

George

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/23/2007 8:47 AM   
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Status: offline 		Wonderful!!! Many many thanks for the detailed tutorial!

I'll print it out and start working on it ASAP!

Thank you again George!!!

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/23/2007 2:17 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		I've been glassing the stab and elevator halves for the last few days and I did my best to keep things civil between me and the resin...

I did a lot of glassing but I still find it hard to deal with 3/4 oz. cloth...

The job turned out fine, today I finished off some areas like the wing tips and root rib faces.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/23/2007 3:27 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		I always forget to mention a few things I need to check with you.

First of all I discovered these 2 pages on Bernard's site just 5 seconds ago:

http://bernard.dumas.chez-alice.fr/MVM1.htm

http://bernard.dumas.chez-alice.fr/MVM2.htm

The detailed model is really gorgeous!

Second: about tail group servos: each elevator is operated by a single HS-85MG rated @ 42 oz.in and 48 oz.in (4.8V and 6.0V respectively).

I think they'll be enough, am I wrong? Original Bernard plans call for a single Graupner C5077 or so to operate both elevators.

The 85MGs were chosen because they put a little less torque than a standard servo (my reference for 'standard' is HS-425BB) AND they fit in the thin stab section while a std doesn't.

Please remember that the elev servos actuate the surface right at the middle and that there is a generous tab to help them.

Rudder: I can operate the rudder with an HS-425BB since there's plenty of room for it.

Linkages will be short and strong + the hinge line is straight and offset and the hinge gap is sealed.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/24/2007 4:31 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		Hi Giacomo,

Although this is not a 215, I thought you may be interested anyway. I live near Van Nuys airport and this is where the Super Scoopers are stationed when the Los Angeles Fire Department has them on contract to help with the wildfires we have in Los Angeles County. Since my house lies under the air traffic pattern for Van Nuys I often see this pair of CL-415's flying in for a landing.

Ciao,
-Tom

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/24/2007 10:44 AM   
teresos



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quote:

ORIGINAL: g_boxwood


Second: about tail group servos: each elevator is operated by a single HS-85MG rated @ 42 oz.in and 48 oz.in (4.8V and 6.0V respectively).

I think they'll be enough, am I wrong? Original Bernard plans call for a single Graupner C5077 or so to operate both elevators.




Don't worry..! HS-85MG have plenty of torque. it's a good choice.

I stick with Bernard's plan and the std Graupner works flawlessy....

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/25/2007 4:20 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		I had to deal with the stab TE before I could consider it finished.

I tried a new tech to create the concave-shaped TE. I wetted a single layer of 'less than' 2 oz. f/g cloth and let it cure flat.

What I got is exactly what I wanted: a f/g foil flexible enough to conform to the concave shape of the TE 'open structure'.

I used a PVC tube of appropriate OD to force the foil in place while the epoxy cured.

Same on the tab TE, only a different OD tube.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/25/2007 4:28 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		The result satisfies me a lot: the foil is so thin it doesn't interfere with the moving surface but it isn't weak at all once sticked to the open structure.

Another thing to do is the elevator control horn: I cut them from G10 and installed in place.

The 3rd pic shows HOW the control horn mounts not WHERE! The last pic shows the slot cut to accept the horn tab that protrudes past the elevator spar.

The horns are installed in the middle of the elevator, right into one of the gudgeon slots.

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< Message edited by g_boxwood -- 9/25/2007 4:46 PM >

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/26/2007 3:48 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hey Kmot, if you have a chance to go near the big yellow bird, one of the mecano who work on (Pascal Mercier) are a nice RC Modeler (and one of my best friends !!). He will start to build a 120" CL-415 from my enlarged plan (MR Aerodesign). Pascal are my contact to all the info I need on the 415 to make my plan !! I'm pretty sure if they are not too busy, he will be happy to talk RC with you !! ;0)



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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/26/2007 5:50 PM   
g_boxwood



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Status: offline 		OK, almost done with the stab & elevators!

I finished off the stab TE, I cut the new gudgeons and I trial-fitted everything once more just to be on the safe side...

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 9/26/2007 5:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		I finally epoxied all the gudgeons in place: to assure straightness I used my cradle and opted for a single hinge-rod (while epoxy cures only ): this way both elevator halves share a common hinge line and that helps with simmetry and things like that...

I then connected the linkage between the servo and the elevator horn (don't puke please, the final one will be less stubby!) just to check I control surface throws: travel is 1"+ in both direction while plans call for +3/8" and -1/2"... I could go 3D with the actual linkage !!!

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