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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/27/2008 5:49 PM   
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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/27/2008 9:19 PM   
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Great work .!!! Bravo my friend

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/27/2008 10:13 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: g_boxwood

Anyway, it shouldn't be a problem, just use the offset type of hinges that are common with jet models. And I suggest you build thick doors not fiberglass-thin ones: the thicker they are the better they seal.

Please bear in mind that the nose well doors don't need to be water-tight EVEN in case of amphibious operation: the wheel well must be water-tight but not the doors. They should not allow too much water in...

The doors should deflect the fluid away from the bulkhead: if the fluid itself hits the bulkhead it will slow the plane down and it will prevent it from getting on step and leave the water.


I find out that some commercial offset hinges must work ok. I think Sonic-Tronics is the best solution.
But, if you intend to make some water landings, what about the the openings for the offset hinges at the sides of the nose well ?
You have to find a way to seal those openings.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/28/2008 7:14 PM   
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Status: offline 		the real aircraft don't have the door sealed. Take a look to this pics. You can see the 2 big hole on the rear bulkead. This hole are ther to evacuate the water from the nose gear bay. I'm not sure if it's by suction (when aircraft move fastly for take off), or only gravity feed the water from this hole, but I know that is the purpose of this hole.. You can add just 2 small tube on your model to have the same effect !

This is what I do on my CL-415 !



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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/29/2008 11:22 AM   
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Status: offline 		You're right, I noticed those holes on the hull of some 1/72nd scale plastic models I have.

However I thought they were used to force water out in case the plane started from gorund, got into the water, retracted the gear and took-off: this way the water fills the nose well for sure...

Are you really sure that those doors don't seal the well in case of 'pure' water operation???

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/29/2008 7:41 PM   
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Status: offline 		I don't remember to see anything who can close this hole. They are always open, so the water can enter if the plan are in water and don't move. I will even ask to my friend who are mecano on the CL-415..

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/30/2008 8:00 AM   
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Status: offline 		In the meantime a dear friend from France, Phil, is taking great care in laser-cutting all the wing parts according to my plans: we have been working on it for some time now and I'm really excited about getting the wing started (not before the end of February anyway ):



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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/30/2008 9:14 PM   
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quote:

In the meantime a dear friend from France, Phil, is taking great care in laser-cutting all the wing parts according to my plans:


Is he a private laser cutter or may I submit my own projects to this nice guy ? Maybe he's not far from here

< Message edited by Strykaas -- 1/30/2008 9:15 PM >

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/31/2008 7:31 AM   
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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 1/31/2008 9:09 PM   
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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/1/2008 6:19 PM   
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Status: offline 		good evening has all and good evening Giacomo

today I have to work for the canadair here 2 photographs to show you cuttings

would be patient Giacomo its soon will be finished
Phil

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/1/2008 6:53 PM   
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Status: offline 		Wonderful job Phil!

Take it easy as I'll be busy 'till end of February...

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/13/2008 8:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hello guys, I am from Czech republic and I found a link to this forum on Bernard's pages. I am very interested in Canadair CL-x15 since I saw it live in work on holidays in Croatia. I am in quite extasy reading this pages about your masterpieces. The construction seems to be perfect.

GREAT WORK!


Now I have finished Porterfield CP-65 and I am going to start the construction of Bernard's CL-215. I think I'll start with the wing. I'm not sure but haven't you mentioned some changes in Bernard's plan? Because your ribs seems to be different to those on plan. I have started with doing a pattern for cutting and trimming ribs. I have just this one piece.

One more question:
I am not sure what to choose, if electric or classic engine. I am quite affraid of situation when one engine will suddenly cuts-off. But I know, that the sound of electric motor is not the best for a model like this... I was quite decided for electric, but when I read your posts...

Again a question:
Are you always using a classic 24h epoxy, or you also use a faster epoxy? Do you thing it will be less consistent then when a classic epoxy is used?

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/14/2008 8:13 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: prokyz
GREAT WORK!

Thank you Prokyz and welcome aboard!

quote:

I think I'll start with the wing. I'm not sure but haven't you mentioned some changes in Bernard's plan?

Well, George from Greece built the wing per plans and it is indeed fine while I designed a new one reflecting my personal building tastes. You can choose whatever you prefer: I'll support both!


quote:

I am not sure what to choose, if electric or classic engine. I am quite affraid of situation when one engine will suddenly cuts-off. But I know, that the sound of electric motor is not the best for a model like this... I was quite decided for electric, but when I read your posts...

I personally don't like electrics but I do share your concern about one-engine-out performance... the only thing I can suggest you in case you decide for twin glow engines is to invest around $150 in the TwinSync http://www.rcshowcase.com for added safety and reliability. The TS is a great piece of electronics which turns out useful in many multi-engine-peculiar flight scenarios.

It doesn't only syncs engines but it also glow their plugs under 25% throttle and couple the rudder to the engines for water steering and things like that, plus everything is user-programmable to the desidered settings. Check the manual!

As for the engines: if you want it scale go for twin RCV-60 SP and 3-bladed APC 13.3x13.4 props (the biggest you can fit) and Tru-Turn prop hubs in the 1" or 1.25" diameter range.

As already said, being the 60 SPs geared they'll require some strengthening of the firewall due to the higher torque. I still have to get there so I can't be more precise right now.

quote:

Again a question:
Are you always using a classic 24h epoxy, or you also use a faster epoxy? Do you thing it will be less consistent then when a classic epoxy is used?

It depends on what you are putting together: balsa to balsa and balsa to lite-ply go with medium CA (green ZAP) while birch to birch or harder woods go together with 30 minutes epoxy (the longer the setting time the more it will seep into the wood leading to a stronger joint). I do not use 5 minutes epoxy neither do I use longer setting epoxies (unless I'm laminating fiberglass).

Feel free to ask more questions, we'll be here!


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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/14/2008 9:58 AM   
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Status: offline 		Ok, I was able to finish my first tip-float prototypes from my own molds!

I left you with the very first pair of halves roughly cut: before proceding I molded the second pair and I then trimmed all of them a little bit more precisely.



Please note that it is not really necessary to cut them perfect since the final trimming is achieved by sanding them on a flat surface:



Note that @ this stage the PVA film hasn't been peeled off yet: you can peel it off by hand and/or wash it off with tap water and a sponge.



The same applies to the molds that are depicted here just after the parts have been removed:



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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/14/2008 10:04 AM   
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Status: offline 		Next came the weight-check: basically I averaged a 1 oz. weight per half.



Here they are once joined together:





They weight a little bit more/less than 2 oz. because of the gluing mixture (epoxy + microballoons):



Their surface finish is highly gloss and it will need some light sanding to promote paint adhesion (400-grit).

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/14/2008 10:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		I must say I learned a lot from this experience: those floats are nasty parts to be molded but I managed to get them done and it only required some patience and TIME. Not exactly *your* time while the processing time of the release agents above all: if you don't overlook this simple rule you'll get them right.

I did overlook something though: the floats are not scale at all! I cross-checked the 2 plan sets I own and they were both uncorrect! I then drew the new floats from pictures and the differences are obviuos (the lower one is the new and scale float):



So I decided to make new plugs and molds and I drew the new wooden parts for the plugs and/or the wooden floats so I could update the wing plans:



Phil is now taking care of cutting them for me as I need a precise interlocking fit of the 1.5 mm birch-ply skeleton members to achieve the desired shape.

I'll try to include some detailing as well in this new molds so I can learn something more.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/15/2008 4:01 PM   
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quote:

...because of the gluing mixture (epoxy + microballoons)


What is "microballoons"?

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/15/2008 9:54 PM   
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Status: offline 		Microbaloons are very small hollow glass balls that increase your epoxy resin volume, while only marginally increasing mass...

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/16/2008 9:55 AM   
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Status: offline 		Ok, the awful period is over so I can get back to serious matters ...

After having tried my hand at molding the tip floats I started to dream about a full fiberglass fuselage!

A fiberglass fuse features some relevant advantages over a wooden one:

1. if you want to take the project to the extreme (I'm talking about detailing) you only have to deal with it once onto the plugs

2. if the project is amphibious you can elect to 'swap the fuses' between water and land sessions instead of getting mad trying to seal one fuse for both flying scenarios

3. final products is more -industrialized- and thus it appeals to a larger number of modelers who wouldn't have or invest the time required to build a wooden fuse

4. if you crash it you can replace the fuse faster (remember that all the flying surfaces are removable)

IMHO these features are enough to further investigate mold development and this is what I did yesterday in a day-long CAD session: I basically took Bernard's plans and re-drew them to lead to a plug which could be put together easily and quickly due to its interlocking construction.

Please remember that I built my fuse from original Bernard's plans: I won't change it but I had the chance to correct some mishaps here and there.

The fuse plug needs to be split into a top and bottom halves (not into left and right): the top half will probably require a further longitudinal split if all the details are to be saved upon de-molding.

Here it is how I designed the parts for the plugs.

1. both the bottom and top halves share a common base:



2. vertical keel elements are then slid into the notches onto the respective base:



3. every single former is then slid into position:



4. stringers are added:



5. other elements complete the assembly:





6. the remaining -empty volumes- are then filled with foam and all the plug is sheeted with 1.5 mm balsa and then glassed;

7. priming and detailing takes place;

8. they are added to their parting boards and prepared.

This is what I came up with and I'll now see if I can get it done.

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/16/2008 3:44 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yes, me and my friend were also thinking about "how to build a fiberglass fuselage". We thought, that we will get the fuselage without any balsa cover, just the skelet that we'll fill with foam (polystyren) and then cover it with glass. Then we'll just pour a diluent into the sklet and the foam will loose. We will then have a fiberglass fuselage with inner (ribbon) construction for increased endurance...

Because we couldn't probably imagine simple fibreglass fuselage with no ribs in it. We thought that it couldn't be strenght enough. How many layers of glass will the one halve be of? If this fiberglass fuselage will be only for water take-off-and-land, then I can imagine a fuselage with no inner construction, just with thick glass walls

BUT, I would like to make a fuselage, which allows me to choose where to land or take off... I know, sealing the fuse will be a problem, but problems are to be solved in project like this.

Amazing work with CAD. Are somewhere plans for those scaled floats?

< Message edited by prokyz -- 2/16/2008 4:36 PM >

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/17/2008 12:08 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi again, I really wonder how amazing your projects are... I have few questions that touch posts from 1st to 10th pages as I was reading deep through it. Next questions next time... My mouth is somewhere on the floor...

1.Giacommo, can I get plans you have done, e.g. fin/rudder, floats and gear? Via e-mail or sth like that. Your CAD ART is really fantastic... And thus connected with teresos' ideas and try&fit process, the front gear is almost flawless. Only one think: Teresos use a piston that requires a hole and it will be a problem to seal that mechanism...

2.Your selected colour scheme is really awsome, I'll have to search for some another scheme even I like that standard yellow-red scheme. You now, it's better to be original a bit...

3.About the gear, are you still thinking of that from post #259/page 11? I am to work on the same scaled project so there is a chance to get one gear for mine, but I can't promise you. My budget is not inflatable... That from MRAerodesign looks good, even with shipping it's for 83$ for me, but I am not sure about the scale, what do you think?

Thanks a lot guys, this forum is really inspiring...


Later: Damned, not more colour schemes : www.seawings.co.uk...

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/18/2008 9:15 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: prokyz

Yes, me and my friend were also thinking about "how to build a fiberglass fuselage". We thought, that we will get the fuselage without any balsa cover, just the skelet that we'll fill with foam (polystyren) and then cover it with glass. Then we'll just pour a diluent into the sklet and the foam will loose. We will then have a fiberglass fuselage with inner (ribbon) construction for increased endurance...

There are many ways to get there and everyone should choose the one he is more comfortable with.

I prefer to build the plugs the way I would build their 'flying' counterpart: I do aim at simplifying the construction (weight isn't an issue for a plug) but I want to be sure that everything turns out straight, true and precise.

I don't like to shape 'by hand' so I avoid to fill large areas with foam and/or such materials. The 215 shape is fairly simple so sheeting isn't an issue: a flat surface covers a lot, so I'm happy with it.

quote:

Because we couldn't probably imagine simple fibreglass fuselage with no ribs in it. We thought that it couldn't be strenght enough. How many layers of glass will the one halve be of? If this fiberglass fuselage will be only for water take-off-and-land, then I can imagine a fuselage with no inner construction, just with thick glass walls

I do agree: a few formers would be compulsory. You could add a lot to the torsional stiffness of the fuse by laminating core materials between the fiberglass layers: AIREX is fine for the purpose and the simple section of the fuse surely helps dealing with it. I'm considering it myself.

quote:

3.About the gear, are you still thinking of that from post #259/page 11? I am to work on the same scaled project so there is a chance to get one gear for mine, but I can't promise you. My budget is not inflatable... That from MRAerodesign looks good, even with shipping it's for 83$ for me, but I am not sure about the scale, what do you think?

Unfortunately no one was interested in the unit so I thanked Darrell for his time and decided to get it machined 'by hand': this is fairly common for limited-run items since CNC setup times really add to the costs.

Do not worry, break-even point for a resonably-priced product was around 10 units and we wouldn't have never reached that goal...

I think MR Aerodesign gear may work.

Thank you for all the kudos and for your interest prokyz!

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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/19/2008 10:55 AM   
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Status: offline 		Fuselage Plans

It took me a few full-days to re-draw the fuselage plans since they were the only one missing...

I didn't include as many mods as I did with the other plans but I found it mandatory to correct quite a large number of microscopic errors that would have driven Philippe laser-cutter crazy!

Phil already has the new patterns and those patterns do work with the original Bernard's plans.

I took my time to model the fuse in 3D so I could actually get the notches 'cut' by boolean difference: one solid is subtracted to the other leaving the most precise notch.







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RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 - 2/19/2008 11:08 AM   
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Status: offline 		1. I tried to include as many notches as I could in the basic 3mm lite-ply sub-assembly: putting it together should be quickier and much more precise (still build it over the plans though)!



2. The main gear box formers C31 and C32 now features the holes for mounting the air cylinders in the new location (they still have the original holes as well but they arent' reccomended). The sides are now corrected (see the original real-world pic) and everything interlocks precisely!





3. Former C34 is now corrected!





4. Additional bottom and top stringers have been added behind the step (formers are already notched to accept them):





5. I also modeled the tail-post:



6. I extended the hull side stringers up to the nose while I didn't include other stringers in the nose section (as I did in my fuse):



Enough for now!

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