RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215

RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (Full Version)

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Turbo_jet -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (7/19/2007 7:52:08 PM)
I have a tribe with an a length of 3,5 m already,and a wing would be needed for him.

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (7/20/2007 8:16:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: teresos quote: ORIGINAL: g_boxwood I always thought the plans lacked all the required infos to easily build the cockpit! Am I missing something? Yes , it was a try & fit process , and hopefully it was successful .....I believe that the plans are not so instructional at this point of building . The result is indeed successful so I was wondering if you made any template along the way you could share with... ehm... other builders like me [;)] [;)].

teresos -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (7/20/2007 11:52:52 AM)
Sory , no templates , but I can guide you through the process . Give me some days to prepare some drawings , (and closer shots ) for you

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (7/20/2007 2:41:08 PM)
Thank you! No hurry at all! One last question: I see you realized the canopy/windshield prior to sheet the fuse, why didn't you wait to complete the fuse? No criticism, just curiosity [;)] .

F86_SABRE -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (7/23/2007 8:24:24 PM)
Hi Giacomo, I have just bumped into this thread. It is very interesting indeed especially the retract geometry. I notice that there is a lot of wood in making this plane and wonder what weight it will have at the current size. Now that you have gone through this process would you think, in your opinion, the plane would have been lighter if it was built in epoxy. Just asking [;)] Keep up the beautiful work! Reuben

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (7/24/2007 8:00:11 AM)
Hi Reuben and thank you for stopping by! Well, the fuse at this stage weights about 980 grams which is reasonable to me. Final weight will be in the 6-6.5 kg range ready for take-off. I don't know about the final weight of a glass fuse, but I know that it would require some bulkheads here and there and that they would add to the final weight dramatically. I'll invest in a glass fuse just to speed up building time. Just my 2 cents anyway [;)] . PS Unfortunately yesterday a CL-415 crashed while on duty here in Italy and the pilot lost his life.

teresos -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (7/29/2007 12:54:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: g_boxwood One last question: I see you realized the canopy/windshield prior to sheet the fuse, why didn't you wait to complete the fuse? No criticism, just curiosity [;)] . At first having studied Bernard's plans , I had made up my mind to construct the fuse to two separate parts plus the main gear one. (...not sure though , if it was the right choice...) [foto 1 & 2 ]. Because of the short length of these parts , I was able to work simultaneously , at more than one stages. I decided not to proceed with the sheeting at that point , so as to have access to the interior of the fuse during the various construction stages : - attaching the canopy/windshield on to the cabin [foto 1] - installing the door hinges as well as the front gear [ foto 3 & 4 ] ,which is exactly what i am up to this time - installing the tail/fin [ foto 5 ] I am also thinking about adding tanks for dropping water. So ,as you can see I hope , the lack of the sheeting at this point makes it easier for me to make the above alterations.

teresos -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (8/3/2007 9:13:25 PM)
It's a really hot summer here in Greece and it's time for me to have some holidays.... I hope all of you , have a nice summer too !.....[8D][:)][8D]

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (8/21/2007 11:15:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: teresos At first having studied Bernard's plans , I had made up my mind to construct the fuse to two separate parts plus the main gear one. (...not sure though , if it was the right choice...) [foto 1 & 2 ]. I preferred to build all the fuse in one piece for greater structural integrity and better overall alignment. Do not worry, you'll be able to join your 3 sections together so they will withstand operational stresses. quote: I decided not to proceed with the sheeting at that point , so as to have access to the interior of the fuse during the various construction stages : You're right, I'm waiting to sheet the fuse too, just added the hull sheeting to help with the alignment and handling of the fuse. I'm back from my holidays, will be working on my model from mid September on. No hurry at all, but will be glad to follow your steps in making the windshield. Waiting for instructions/pictures, again, no hurry 'till mid Sept.

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (8/23/2007 3:22:24 PM)
Having built the main gear mock-up gave me some satisfaction but it also showed me with little regard that making it work the way it is designed would have been a painful experience. Page 7 (scroll down to last pictures) of this 3d shows original cylinders placement: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4400160/mpage_7/key_/tm.htm I had to deal with it before committing time and patience to a non-rewarding matter: that setup isn't the best... for a number of reasons: 1. cylinders may (and they WILL) interfere with each other, their endcaps are larger than main body diameter 2. cylinders are a pain to fit in place in the finished model, they're a pain to fit even in the mock-up which was thought to ease things up a bit... 3. cylinders cannot be seen during operation = poor diagnostics of possible (if not certain) problems 4. if the cylinders are a pain to fit you can imagine how terrible it can be to fine-tune the linkage, and the tuning is a must... 5. cyllinders exit through a hole in the fuse and this compromises water sealing So we have difficult installation, almost impossible setup, invisible operation and super-tight accessibility... too many bad things not to deal with them right now. The attached pictures show what I came out with: everything is based on what I already have put together, with NO modifications to the already built fuse nor to the gear elements themselves, GIVEN the 1" stroke main cylinders that I own. Again, everything has been worked out trying not to touch anything and the simulations show that there is no interference between the gear operation and the fuselage (this is why I modeled a length of airplane cabin section). This way, which may not be the only possible way, almost all the bugs are worked out: you can see the cylinders working, you can install and remove them more easily, no more holes in the fuse sides... it sounds good to me. The only problem seems the little arm... this is forced by the 1" stroke of the cylinders, but remember that the not pictured locking/unlocking upper cylinder helps with the actuation of the entire system, especially at the endpoints (where the arm is at its smallest). Obviously every feedback and/or advise would be greatly appreciated!

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (8/23/2007 3:35:08 PM)
Oops... I didn't tell you how it works: basically the axle around which the lower leg rotates acts as a torque-rod; I designed a simple horn of appropriate geometry to connect the rod to the cylinder clevis. I still have to deal with the torque-rod/lower-gear-leg interface but it doesn't worry me too much. Feel free to ask.. I just realized it could not be clear enough... and that is not a fault of yours!

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (8/31/2007 4:19:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: g_boxwood I still have to deal with the torque-rod/lower-gear-leg interface but it doesn't worry me too much. This is what I came out with: [img]http://www.geocities.com/gb_teknik/CL-215/TORQUE_ROD.jpg[/img] 1. the rod is notched in two places to accept 2 set-screws 2. once the rod is in place and blocked the actuating horn is clamped to the rod at the correct angle given by the geometry [img]http://www.geocities.com/gb_teknik/CL-215/TORQUE_ROD02.jpg[/img] In the meanwhile I updated the physical mock-up to deal with the new main cylinder position. I also mounted everything in place to check for mishaps: at this time, I'm still not able to actuate the entire system beacuse I need full-metal parts to test proper torque trasmission... I can't do that with wooden parts! What is important to notice is that main cylinders don't stall at either endpoints and that the locking/unlocking cylinder helps a lot toward the travel extremes. Cylinders push = gear up Cylinders pull = gear down All cyls work in the same direction while they didn't in the original design.

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (8/31/2007 4:23:45 PM)
Some other pics. I also trial-fitted the gear in the fuse to see how it looked.

Kmot -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (8/31/2007 5:49:23 PM)
Wow! [:D]

bernard.dumas -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/2/2007 5:23:10 PM)
Hi Giacomo, your new location of the pneumatic cylinders is a really good idea. The acces for maintenance is enhanced. It's alway better to work in a team than alone. When you have worked to long time on the same project (based on the concept of the real plane) sometimes you have some difficulties to adapt it to a much smaller scale ! I'm happy to see the interest (devotion ?) of all the people involved in this project. Good luck for the next steps Bernard DUMAS

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/3/2007 12:18:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bernard.dumas Hi Giacomo, your new location of the pneumatic cylinders is a really good idea. I'm really glad you approve it! I'm only worried about being able to transfer the torque between the 4mm axle and the lower leg... we will see... quote: It's alway better to work in a team than alone. Yes, sure, but you did most of the job saving us a lot of time! Thanks for sharing your plans! quote: I'm happy to see the interest (devotion ?) of all the people involved in this project. It deserves it! And I want the model to fully operate its main gear! Ciao!

grinder-RCU -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/7/2007 9:58:36 PM)
Can you post a video of your gear operation on youtube.com? Excellent engineering work. I'm following your build taking notes for my CL-415 160"ws and the gear was a bit of a head scratcher. Grinder.

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/8/2007 10:12:28 AM)
I'll post a video. As I said, the gear elements Bernard designed are really true to their scale counterparts: the only problem with such a little scale (1/12th) is that they look and they actually are... well out of scale. They're too big because they need to be, otherwise structural stability issues arise. At your scale they'll look much better, provided you don't simply enlarge them. If you're interested we can manage a nice enlargement based on the Bernard design that will save both appearance and functionality. What 3D CAD/CAM application do you use?

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/12/2007 5:51:19 PM)
Horizontal Stab & Elevator I already told you about the tail surfaces structure: [img]http://www.geocities.com/gb_teknik/CL-215/SECTION.JPG[/img] Plus, rudder and stab halves are removable and feature functional scale hinging. I printed my stab & elevator plans and started working on them, taking notes and correcting bugs here and there. Building the stab is straightforward: the two halves are built together over the plans so that they'll be correctly aligned to each other once they'll be broken free. The elevator is built into the stab as well and subsequently cut free and finished. All the spars and TEs are designed so that they support the ribs flat to the building board.

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/12/2007 6:00:53 PM)
More pics. There's a big balsa filler block between ribs E1 and E2. The small balsa blocks in the red circles are the gudgeon support blocks. The hardwood block onto the aluminum sleeve is the locking pin holder. The pins lock the stab halves in place during flight (hopefully). I still have to decide what the 'pin' actually will be, it could be a simple 1/16" stell pin or a servo screw, both fit. It runs through the alu sleeve and the carbon fiber joiner tube. I tried it on some scrap pieces and it works: due to the intrinsic brittleness of the CF tube it is compulsory to fill its ends with a wooden dowel. This way it is toughened and doesn't split. CA the 1-1/2" long dowel in place. I'll get back tomorrow as I'll be sheeting the stab.

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/13/2007 5:54:58 PM)
Today I glued the top stab shheting in place with Gorilla Glue. I built a cradle that allows to apply pressure evenly on the sheeting while GG cures (overnight job). It seemed to work. In the meantime I got back to the FIN & RUDDER CAD drawings. It will take some time to finalyze them for printing though.

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/16/2007 2:24:02 PM)
I'm pretty happy with the results: GG expanded and filled any gap between the sheeting and the ribs! The cradle turned out really useful as it can be... used to support the stab upside down after the sheeting job. A lot of dust was generated in the week-end [:)] ! I installed the servo hatch mounting rails and glued the bottom sheeting. Prior to that I opened the servo hatches in the sheeting itself by transferring the hatch outlines with a dark chalk (Top Flite credits in here [;)] ).

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/16/2007 2:27:16 PM)
The cradle helps with the bottom sheeting as well: turn the stab upside-down, put it in the cradle and weight the already sheeted top surface! I placed a protector sheet between the cradle and the sheeting to prevent mutual adhesion... The foaming GG will require little or no filling at all!

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/16/2007 2:33:52 PM)
Next came the LE stock + shaping and finally the tip blocks. When sanding to shape it is better to -mask- the thin sheeting with tape to avoid any damage... Tomorrow the twin elevator halves will be finally cut free! Stay tuned!

g_boxwood -> RE: Bernard Dumas' Canadair CL-215 (9/17/2007 8:22:22 PM)
Here I am with the update. Basically: - tip blocks sanded to shape - stab halves cut free - elevator separated from the stab and trimmed

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