Clement7

Hey everyone! I just thought of sharing to you the outcome of my 4 ounce payload tests with my SAVS.

I flew the SAVS with a digital camera up to a guesstimate height of 40/50 feet. I still don't have the guts to fly beyond 50 feet with the 4 ounce payload. No guts yet. "Glory" will have to wait for now.

I shot the following pictures using the SAVS Saturday afternoon when I attended a birthday party, rural south of Manila. I offered a friend to help locate his basket ball. Can you help DORA (the EXPLORER) find the ball?

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/foundtheball.jpg]foundtheball.jpg[/link]
[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/rural2.jpg]rural2.jpg[/link]
[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/conventioncenter1.jpg]conventioncenter1.jpg[/link]

Now I can confidently shoot high-res aerials to meet my pampered clients' MEGA-expectations.

Sky High

Can you post pictures of how that camera is attached to your DF? What kind of camera is it and how did you get it to trigger remotely?

Clement7

Hi Sky! Here's my post re my SAVS+6MP experiment details.

DISCLAIMER: The user shall determine the suitability of the following experiment stated herewith for his or her intended use and shall assume all risk and liability in connection therewith. I cannot accept responsibility for injury and/or crash damage or loss of the equipment to be used in this experiment, or accessories, parts and materials that occurs during the use of your radio-controlled unit. Please take all necessary precautions and care.

Now that aside, here are the details of my SAVS+6MP experiment:

Things you need:

1 - Pentax Optio S6 Digital Camera (weight 3.2 ounces)

1 - Gentled AUTOSHUTTER (www.kapshop.com)

1 - foam big/long enough to get enough pieces to cut from to protect the digital camera (I made use of an old foam used as packaging for an external Hard Drive I bought years back.

8 - wooden toothpicks to fasten the foams together.

1 - set strip of velcro to use for fastening the foam to the base plate.

1 - box cutter

1 - drill

1 - screw (find one that fits perfectly for the tripod socket of the digital cam)\


Below please find exhibits A to F of how I was able to successfully fly the SAVS with a digital camera.

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/exhibitA.jpg]exhibitA[/link] - this is how I made a mess out of the SAVS base plate experimenting on the right hole position to attach the Pentax

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/exhibitB.jpg]exhibitB[/link] - this is how the camera will look when attached (Yes, it will be upside down. All I need to do is just use photoshop to rotate the images.)

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/exhibitC.jpg]exhibitC[/link] - the foam when assembled together. Use the cutter to cut out pieces to form a protective cage for the Pentax Optio S6. Don't forget to make a slice on the foam so the infrared sensor can pick up the signal coming from the Gentled Auto.

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/exhibitD.jpg]exhibitD[/link] - this is how everything looks when attached together. I removed the SAVS 3CCD Extreme Cam for this experiment. Notice the velcro on the side to fasten the foam to the base. I know, doesn't seem it will hold but this configuration works. In one of my flights when the the battery ran out, the FOAM absorbed the shock and saved my S6 and SAVS.. I also used velcro to attach the Gentled Auto.

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/exhibitE.jpg]exhibitE[/link] and [link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/exhibitF.jpg]exhibitF[/link] - ready for liftoff (make sure you check for the balance of the SAVS, check for correct battery placement and re-position it when necessary before attempting to fly.)

Here's a sample video of my experiment to show that even with 4-ounces of payload, I can still manage to control the SAVS.

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/SAVS6MP.mp4]SAVS6MP.mp4[/link]

ok, good luck on conducting this experiment and enjoy the new 6MP capabilities of your SAVS!

Clement7

Sky High

Well, I cannot believe my eyes! I think you are the first person to accomplish successful flight with a complete still camera onboard. Not only did you provide pictures but a demo video of it flying too. I have two suggestions. I would remove those heatsinks at least when using the camera. That is unnecessary weight. I finally took mine off and have never used them again. The next thing I would do is remove the foam and land on an open box so that it could accommodate the hanging camera. I know you also use the foam for protection for a hard landing or crash but it's extra weight too. I think it would be more efficient to use taller landing struts than to have all that foam which is a wind catcher as well. Since you were inside, you had to be flying without Ti. You are really skilled in keeping that thing level, especially with that camera hanging from below. Do you fly with or without Ti outside when flying much higher? Thanks for the detailed info.

Clement7

Hey Sky! Thanks for the compliment! Let's all help out and perfect this experiment shall we?

After a fatal crash that ruined my 3CCD Extreme Cam, I never used Ti ever again.. but after reading through several posts, I guess it wont do any harm to calibrate it before each major flight of the day to have it as LAST RESORT. I'm just now sure how effective the Ti will be with the added weight.

Re my flying, I'm just up to hovering and recovery. Tail in. That's about it. I always fly in training mode. I tried learning to fly head-in but since my purpose is for taking aerial video and stills --I'll stick it out mastering how to hover and recover when the SAVS suddenly goes crazy inflight tail-in. I haven't had a major crash ever since the fatal day when I had to replace my Extreme Cam.

Your box suggestion is a good idea.. plus the removal of the heat sinks.. I'll work on it immediately. Maybe you can give me some suggestions /pictures illustrating what you have in mind so I can try that out. Meanwhile I'll continue shooting more pictures and video of my SAVS in action with my current configuration and posts them all here.

I plan to add something under the base to serve as a bracket so I can get a bit of a downward angle to get oblique aerial shots.

In the Making of Lets Get Out MTV, I saw the DF with a styrofoam which is a real light material. The problem with that is it's messy and gets to depreciate very quickly after each use, unless you paint over a protective film on it.

OK will try to post some more pictures later.

Oh, btw, when using the Pentax Optio S6, set the sensitivity to ASA 400, Sports Mode and Focus to Infinity. This will keep the camera in focus and and force it to shoot in fast shutter speeds. This will help the camera avoid taking blurry images. The S6 does not have any manual settings for the shutter speed.

Sky High

I don't understand why you had that problem when using Ti. One thing that is not stressed enough by DFI is that when using Ti, you must be in an open area big enough for it to detect a significant temerature differential of the sky and earth or it will cause very erratic behavior such as sudden burts of power or lack of it causing it go out of control. You must also calibrate Ti on the surface that it will be predominately flying over or you will experience erratic behavior. The DF doesn't like to fly over wet grass when Ti is activated because the water cools the surface area too much and confuses the sensors. I think it is so important to fly at several different locations with different ground composition such as pavement, grass, concrete, etc. to experience how the DF reacts while flying over each one and different combinations of each. After doing this you will build a mental profile and know what to expect and how to avoid erratic behavior and most importantly, crashes.

Clement7

I too don't understand the Ti's behaviour.. Whenever I calibrate it in very open spaces I always get only one of the leds to blink (faithfully and strictly following the video instructions and what's posted in the threads here about Ti). Well I guess I fly mostly on locations that are not Ti friendly/compatible. So I guess that explains why I try my best to master hovering and lessen my dependancy on the Ti. That way, I always have full control. No surprises.

Here's another shot I took the other day when I flew my SAVS between two towers. This illustrates the contrast/AE capabilities of the S6.

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/inbetween2towers.jpg]inbetween2towers.jpg[/link]

TheHindmost

Excellent work! And great shots! I particularly liked the shot between the towers.

If you remove the heat sinks, I wonder if you'll have enough weight savings to add a video downlink, like the [link=http://www.blackwidowav.com/bwav240200digiliveUFPbasic.html]Black Widow Digi-Live[/link]? It weighs an ounce, according to their web site, and it takes the AV out from the Optio. Maybe the Optio itself can be stripped down a bit to save weight as well?

Will

TheHindmost

Since you don't like to fly with TI and seem to get by just fine without it, can you save more weight by removing the TI daughterboard?

Will

Sky High

Clement, I don't know how deep you are in between those towers but just for informational purposes Ti would definitely NOT work in there with that shade and no clear view of the horizon and especially over that pool. One other note. I don't know if the images you have posted are just tests of the mount, but I hope you plan to fly much higher with that camera to make it true aerial photography. Those shots that you have posted are great in quality but not necessarily much higher than a typical 10 foot ladder, 2nd story balcony or a hillside. My point about talking about using Ti is that I really don't think you are going to be able to get much higher than a 20 ft roof top and be able to maintain control of the DF, especially with that camera mounted below, without using Ti. There's really not much point in shooting stills or video unless you can fly at significant height that could not be achieved any other way other than an R/C or full sized helo or plane.

yvesOttawa

That's not true. I flew my DF to shoot the top of this water tower sitting at 150 feet. The original is not 6MP but 4MP and Ti wasn't used (the DF would've crashed in the tower if I wasn't at the controls and Ti was used )

Sky High

Yves, I wasn't specific but I really meant not enough control to get smooth and level stills or video at altitude without Ti. I bet that picture would have been more level using Ti. Flying and shooting while flying are two different things. How long ago did you shoot that picture? Was there much if any wind? Well, I bet you wouldn't get smooth video flying that high without Ti. Do you have a surprise demo of that too? Nice picture!

Clement7

Hello Will! Hi Sky!

Will, thanks for the suggestions! And I'm glad you like the shots between the two towers.. It was about 3 floors up from the amenities area of the condominium complex.

Since the SAVS came with an Extreme EyeCam, I was thinking of re-attaching the Extreme Cam and align the two cameras to give me a hint of what the digital camera is seeing. When I ordered the SAVS a couple of months ago, I also bought the Eyecam Eyewear. I think now I'll have use for it. Though the Extreme Cam's lenses are a bit wider, it will at least tell me that I've already reached past the rooftops..

Re removing the Ti daughter board, I might still try using the Ti again as per Sky's suggestion to be able to fly at higher altitudes...

Sky, since I admit that I have no guts yet to fly high and glory can wait for now (as per my forum signature) , I haven't had the chance to fly that high yet with the SAVS like the shots you posted in the other threads. The digital camera is just about a week old and like a new car owner, I'm not ready to go into adrenalin pumping maneuvers. My target right now are residential properties and proud home owners in exclusive villages. So the altitude that I am able to confidently fly right now is enough to feature a one to two-story houses/buildings. For real aerial shots, up to a height of 300 feet, I plan to use my 6' helium ball balloon.

Here is a sample of a shot I took for a fishing village and resort south of Manila using a helium balloon.

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/fishingvillage-lowres.jpg]fishingvillage-lowres.jpg[/link]

For marketing purposes, I offer the SAVS for low altitude shots at very reasonable prices for home owners. Now, for commercial purposes for resorts and real-estate properties, I have the helium balloon which is quite expensive to fly at about $100 per day for the helium (multiple flights, but for one location only). Thus I charge more. My resort clients still find my rates reasonable at $300 per hour, per set of three shots, one layout/location/angle (out of 36 to 50 shots taken). With the risk I take flying the balloon with an expensive Canon 300D (Rebel) and the investment I made to get a trailer for the heavy helium tank, I plan to jack-up the price as soon as I establish it as a trend with resort owners, real-estate developers and architects. I've done some researching around Manila and no one yet offers the aerial photography services I do at the ridiculously low rates. The other option available right now is to rent a full size helicopter which costs at about $1,500 per hour minimum plus pilot fees, which is too much for a client who just needs one good aerial picture for their brochure cover and web site.

The very main reason I went into this SAVS+6MP experiment is out of frustration with travelling out of town where no helium tanks are available and it will be difficult to ship one to... and how to serve my clients where I have to fly to a remote island and take some still shots there. Now I'm considering of getting a kite as recommended by KAPSHOP to serve as backup should the location be too windy for the SAVS to fly properly.

Going back to the SAVS, I take inspiration from the following web site flying low altitudes, taking videos and stills of properties:

Scott's [link=http://www.slcity.com]www.slcity.com[/link]

and have you checked [link=http://www.volovisione.com]VOLOVISIONE's[/link] web site? Though not all of the videos there were taken using the SAVS, it's still something we can try to pattern our SAVS shots after. You'll notice mixed shadows of SAVS and a RC HELI.

I'll see if I can take more shots from my SAVS+6MP experiment and show its low altitude applications. I'll post some more within the week. In regards to the Ti, I'll give it another try without any cameras attached.

Keep sending in more suggestions guys, thanks for helping me out with the SAVS+6MP experiment!

Clement7

Hi yvessOttawa!

Wow, nice shot! I haven't dared to fly with my 6MP camera that high yet.. How did you go about mounting your 4MP camera? Can you share a picture of your setup for the group please (type of camera, any foam protections, auto trigger)?

One advantage by the way of taking still shots at 4MP up is that unlike DFI's sample transmission lines video wherein you have to fly so close to the tower and lines, you can fly the SAVS at a safe distance (not that close) to take shots and just zoom into the pictures to check for details. Plus you can easily print a better image than the video grabs for reporting and documentation purposes.

Thanks in advance. Keep 'em coming!

Sky High

Clement, that picture over the trees is the height I was describing. I know exactly what your saying about flying high, especially with all of that gear but without Ti, [X(], I couldn't imagine trying that. I saw that Volovisione video a while back but I didn't think that it was a SAVS. The second video seems to show the shadows and there's no camera ball. The video was surprisingly smooth and vibration free for it not having the isolated ball though.

Below are links to quite a few demos from another DF pilot that has done some really nice aerials of real estate.

Video
http://photos.imageevent.com/gdivide...0the%20net.wmv

More Video - Links to many other aerial demo videos, etc. - flip through pages and scroll down for all demos.
www.imageevent.com/gdivideo/helicam

yvesOttawa

This is the actual one I gave my client. It was done about 2 months ago. I posted the other because it showed the intersection below a bit better. I've done standard VGA video with the DF (not using wireless) but it hasn't turned out as nice as an HD camera on my Trex. Yeah HD!

For flying around people and neighborhoods, the DF is great though. And 4MP shots is more than enough.

Unfortunately, in order to protect my business and my intellectual property, I can't post pictures of my setup. Too many prying eyes. Especially from the area. I have to say that clement has the right idea though

Yes you can fly the DF without Ti and even as high (I've gotten it as high as 250 feet). One thing though, Ti will not like the added weight of clements setup (and mine). It's going to see-saw back and forth until it flips. The auto level routine is tuned for the standard 2 oz payload and nothing more.

Cheers,

Sky High

I know that you can FLY without Ti anywhere and as high as you want if you're good enough. But flying for fun and trying keep a steady shot while framing for video without using Ti is two different things. That's why I said flying and shooting while flying are two different things. You are definitely very skilled to fly that high without Ti!

yvesOttawa

Same with you. Very nice shots and you've definitely got the right idea. I didn't want to undermine you and what you've done in any way. I basically wanted you to know you're on the right track with your ideas and especially your wanting to fly WITHOUT the assistance of Ti. Keep it up

Sky, you're right about the flying and shooting comment. How are you framing your shots? are you just relying on Ti and looking at a monitor? are you using the glasses from DFI?

Sky High

I just take off and pay close attention to where that ball is pointed and hope it's framed right and what you have seen is what I've gotten with that method. Everything I have ever shot has been guessing by that reference. Since most of what I have shot is non specific wide shots it has worked well. I tried the monitor once and realized when I looked up my eyes took too long to adjust to the sky and I couldn't see the DF. I eventually want to get that high end eyewear just as a quick framing reference while hovering but not to fly by. The problem with using monitors and eyewear is that the camera doesn't provide peripheral vision and you are actually traveling faster than the camera depicts so timing and spatial detection is way off. So, right now framing estimation is my only method.

yvesOttawa

I've seen your vids. They are fantastic. Very smooth and the quality is much improved since the first footage we've seen without the ball. Remember the ones posted on rctoys.com with the CMOS camera? Terrible!

I've personally given up on wireless. I found it too time consuming to setup and the antenna/receiver issues and signal breakup was just too damn frustrating. As you probably know already, with the progress in tapeless video cameras and their significant reduction in weight, the coming years will be very interesting for anyone doing video. Video editing software has gone a long way too.

You've done alot in trying new things and sharing your findings with others. The DF still has it's flaws though and unless you can fly without Ti, your pretty much stuck in using the wireless gear I think.

Sky High

Yes, I have been watching the technology advance with very small self-contained video cameras and it is impressive but not at the quality for broadcast use. It is still mostly using inferior CMOS technology and at maximum resolutions of 320x480. And with the advancement of the HD 16:9 aspect, neither 320x240, 640x480 or 720x480 is going to be compatible or acceptable, at least for my uses. What onboard video system have you been using with the DF and don't you at least still use a wireless feed to monitor the framing?

Yes it does, but other than weight, why can't I fly using Ti with non wireless gear?

Sky High

Has anyone thought about trying to tear down a still camera to the basic hardware to shoot an image and fit it into that SAVS camera ball? It seems logical that the DF should fly smoother with more weight hanging below the battery tray because the center of gravity is lower.

Clement7

Hi Sky, thanks for posting the link to Scot's video. I noticed he painted his rear rotor blade bright/neon orange, instead of the front. Hmmm makes sense since when you fly up high it's always the rear that you see when flying the DF/SAVS away from you. I should try that and check out the thread on painting the nylon blades.. or try coloring a pingpong ball and attach it to the rear rotor.

The height he attained was quite spectacular. There must be no wind at all to be able to smoothly fly his DF like that. I'm just wondering if he flew with the Ti ON? Since it was shot late in the afternoon (I'm guess the time it was shot, I'm assuming that all of the houses were designed to face the SUNRISE) with the sun's rays rediating like that from the left side of the screen, won't it have a drastic effect on the Ti?

Anyway, re your idea about stripping down to bare essentials.. good suggestion but when I tried it with the Pentax Optio S6, it was kindda messy having all those wires exposed and the circuit board. I would still need to configure the cam for each flight with the S6's monitor and I don't want to tinker around the wires and short circuit the electronics. The casing wasn't that too much of an issue for the weight. It's the retracting lense and the battery plus the monitor that makes up most of the S6's weight.. with this I decided that the casing stays on.

Thanks YvessOttawa! I really appreciate the encouragement.

Sky High

When I spoke to Scot a while back, he said that he did not fly without Ti. He and I are very similar with our flying protocol. We both preflight hover nose IN, we both fly with Ti and we both fly real high!

I think the sun can affect Ti only by heating objects that you fly real close to like rooftops. I have experienced some noticeable control changes when flying in shade and then in the sun. That's just one of the strange Ti characteristics you have to learn to fly with.

Clement7

Great! Thanks for clearing that out.. I'll try the Ti tomorrow when I visit a resort a few kilometers south of my place. I hope tomorrow's weather will have slight winds only.. I'll remove the cameras (EXTREME CAM and the S6) first and observe the flight characteristics of my SAVS with the Ti ON.

Oh btw, any illustrations or sample images of the box setup you suggested to replace my foam protection earlier in this thread?

I removed the heat sinks already as per your advice.

THE SETTINGS FOR THE PENTAX OPTIO S6 that I find to work very well during flight:

SPORTS MODE
DISABLE AUTO OFF
DISABLE PREVIEW
DISABLE FLASH
FOCUS SET TO LANDSCAPE /INFINITY
AE METERING TO SPOT METERING MODE
SENSITIVITY SET TO ASA 400
SET THE DRIVE FUNCTION TO REMOTE

This will keep the digital camera on, keep it focused, get the right exposure, shoot in the highest possible shutter speed to avoid camera blurs, and help the S6' battery last longer.