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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 3:07 AM   
Toker41


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Toker41





Everyone’s entitled to their opinion; and its just that an opinion and you have certainly expressed yours on many occasions. Since you are not an OEM, importer, distributor, dealer, sub-dealer and or a hobby shop it maybe difficult to fathom the reality of how things work in the corporate world of bringing products to the masses, research & development, out-sourcing and more. Apparently the number of reported problems is not alarming in the scheme of things; I honestly don't know this is my opinion. When you consider the numbers of units sold to the small number of complaints reported here it seems no worse than the atypical problems that bear fruit regardless of real world anomalies (such as component failures or assembly short-comings). Electronic devices have an anticipated failure rate; it’s the nature of the beast.

While I’m not trying to suggest modelers haven’t had problems, for some it simply is not so. There are many variables that cause and affect interference, not to mention dumb thumbs, poor installation techniques, damaged or equipment in poor repair, someone turning on the same frequency and obviously lots more. Human nature often finds fault with products or points fingers at others rather than assuming personal responsibility. It’s rather convenient to find an easy out for some IMO.

Lastly I must have missed the part where you had experience with an Optic 6 TX equipped with Spectra module that was working intermittently? Having first hand information with a product and its short-comings if any weighs very heavy with me… Anything else is hearsay in my mind. However I feel many of your thoughts and assertions are valid and bear consideration, after-all this is a discussion forum.






Here is where you suggested "poor installation technique".

You state that it's human nature to "find fault and point fingers rather than accept personal responsibility", and give a good example.

Also, do I expect to hear about a recall on the 6:00 news? No, of course not. That would be silly. I would, however, expect notification to the AMA. Since they are an insurance provider, I would think they would be more than happy to help in notifying the public about such dangers. I believe every AMA member (and you shouldn't be flying if you are not) gets a magazine from them in the mail each month or so. There are ways to notify the consumers. Excuses about lack of a way don't hold water. Hitec finds a way to notify it's target consumers when they market a new product without the help of the 6:00 news.
Has Hitec notified the AMA about the potential dangers of the Spectra from this lot? I could be wrong, but I would think they would at least be interested to know about it. An article about a fix for it sure might reach a few people.
There are ways, and there are excuses. Each is a choice.

< Message edited by Toker41 -- 10/25/2006 4:01 AM >

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 3:53 AM   
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I believe you've taken my comments out of context with regard to “poor installation techniques”. I specifically qualified my comment see below in quotes.

“There are many variables that cause and affect interference, not to mention dumb thumbs, poor installation techniques, damaged or equipment in poor repair, someone turning on the same frequency and obviously lots more.”

Lastly the second halve of the first paragraph of my comments quoted in your post above addresses the reasoning and or response in regard suggesting THE problem realized of Optics and some Spectra modules. The numbers simply do not support your assertions and or opinion… Again you’re not the OEM, just a bystander without a problematic Optic looking in.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 4:17 AM   
Toker41


 

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Status: offline 		I'm a little more than that. Regardless, as you stated, this is an open forum discussion.

That being said...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeMayberry

Hey guys,

We are very sorry for these problems.

We've been looking into this issue and it appears that the problems stem from the fit of the module in the case cavity.

We have found that the problems go away when the module is more secure in the case... this can be achieved by using electrical tape on both sides of the module preventing it from moving around.

So at this time we would suggest everyone with an Optic and spectra module should do this. However, this problem only seems to take place with Spectra modules with a date code of 7/05 or newer. You can see the date code on a little round sticker on the module... 507 = 7/05. The first digit is the year with the second two the month.

We are working on a more permanent solution and will post the info on this when it is finalized.

Mike.


I'm a bit confused here, or maybe I missed something. Clearly, and admittedly, there is a manufacturing, or design problem leading to a defect with Spectra units with date codes of 7/05 or newer. Am I wrong?


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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 4:38 AM   
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Status: offline 		While it could be construed as a defect, not everyone has issue so I believe it’s more like problematic behavior.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 7:05 AM   
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Status: offline 		Well,Im not an electronics genious,but I do have several radios;among them an old prism 7x that I bought in 1999.It has always been nothing but rock solid.I put a sprecta module in it about 3 years ago,and I havent had any problems.I like to use it for park flyers,because I can put 2 or 3 planes in my van,and just one transmitter.Apparently the problem doesnt exist with the 7x,or maybe I havent flown it enough yet.One thing,the module fits so damn tight in the 7x,that you have to take a small screwdriver,and lever back and forth on the locking tabs to get it out.Im going to take my dremel,and mark where the setting pots rest when in place,and grind the ridge of the module cavity so I can set the frequency without removing the module.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 8:10 AM   
mglavin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: richie68

Well,Im not an electronics genious,but I do have several radios;among them an old prism 7x that I bought in 1999.It has always been nothing but rock solid.I put a sprecta module in it about 3 years ago,and I havent had any problems.I like to use it for park flyers,because I can put 2 or 3 planes in my van,and just one transmitter.Apparently the problem doesnt exist with the 7x,or maybe I havent flown it enough yet.One thing,the module fits so damn tight in the 7x,that you have to take a small screwdriver,and lever back and forth on the locking tabs to get it out.Im going to take my dremel,and mark where the setting pots rest when in place,and grind the ridge of the module cavity so I can set the frequency without removing the module.


Or you could send the Spectra module to Hitec for a free check-up and request a smaller case be fitted to your components, no charge of course...

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 11:52 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

While it could be construed as a defect, not everyone has issue so I believe it’s more like problematic behavior.


I've been following this discussion with interest (and more than a little bit of a smile).

I've got a Spectra that alternates between my Eclipse 7 and my Optic 6 and has never been anything other than rock-solid -- so I personally have no complaints.

However, I can't really say that your passing off an obvious defect as "problematic behavior" is a reasonable presentation of the facts.

If there is a known problem with newer Spectra modules in Optic 6 cases that can (and often does) cause glitching with the very real potential for this to result in a crash (possibly involving damage to property or person) -- then Hitec ought not to be downplaying and calling it "problematic behavior".

I don't think any of the major auto-makers would get away with defining "occasional break failure" as merely being "problematic behavior". Likewise, suggesting that they perform their own repairs by taping up a known-leaky hydraulic line would probably not be seen as the ethical thing to do.

One of the things that Hitec has developed a very enviable and highly respected reputation for is its support and service. In this area (to date) Hitec can proudly hold its head up high and feel justified in claiming to be "the best" in the industry.

However, the attitudes I'm seeing here to what is a very real flaw that is clearly affecting a number of people, is less than "first class" and seems atypical for Hitec.

If the scale of the problem is really as small as claimed, it would cost Hitec very little to repair or replace all the faulty units by way of a recall. That this doesn't seem to be the case leaves one wondering just a little whether the true scale and magnitude of the problem is perhaps being understated.

I wonder this because I was told that the Optic 6 AAAA problem was *tiny* and affected only a very small percentage of the first Optic 6's ever made. So what were the chances that *my* Optic 6 would suffer this fate. Well perhaps I'm just *very* unlucky -- but it did -- and the freight cost involved in returning it to the USA (from where it was purchased) made it virtually uneconomic to bother with the free firmware update. Wipe one Optic 6.

I also wonder what the odds were that *my* QPCM receiver would be one of those very few that suffered from poor resolution and decidedly "steppy" output. Well guess what -- bad luck for me again.

What chance also that one of my four HS5925 servos would be all stiff and slow for some unknown reason?

I guess I should bundle all this stuff up and send it back for repair -- but the cost of postage and the hassle involved is significant -- so it sits here under my bench gathering dust -- but that's the risk you take when you buy over the Net from US sources but live at the bottom of the world so I accept it.

I do know however, that if I did send this stuff back, Hitec would fix it up for what would likely be just a nominal amount -- and that's why I keep buying Hitec gear and generally I'm pretty pleased with it.

To now discover that you're passing off a known and acknowledged manufacturing defect as nothing more than "problematic behavior" gets me a little worried -- for your own good reputation that is.

Don't do yourself a disservice. Hitec's gear is pretty good stuff, great value and has (to date) been backed up by levels of suppor the rest can only aspire to. Don't mess that up.

By the way, I *was* lucky enough not to buy one of the first batch of Fusion 9 receivers -- you know, the ones that seem to have been quietly recalled due to a faulty component. Just dodged that bullet eh? :-) I'd hate to add to that growing pile of "broken from new" Hitec stuff under my bench.

I have to point out that, despite all the "bad out of the box" Hitec stuff I've accumulated, by purchasing form the USA through the Net I've still saved about 35% over the price of buying the same stuff through the local distributor and his dealers (even taking int account the money lost on that "never did work right from new" equipment).

Now if Hitec would just allow me (by way of providing spares/tech-info) to fix/update my own stuff (and that of other Kiwis buying Hitec gear direct from the USA) then I (and many other NZers) would be totally happy.


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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 11:43 PM   
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Status: offline 		XJet,

It is not my intention to cause one to believe I'm down playing the admitted intermittent glitching issue of some Spectra modules fitted to Optic TX’s…Nothing less I have tried to put the real world behavior into perspective. Our extensive testing has revealed the problem is momentarily intermittent at best, not a sustained loss of control issue. We publicly acknowledge the problem via website forums such as this and via communication directly with Hitec Service.

Yes, the tape solution was/is crude, but works in most cases. A permanent FIX has been affected and is offered to all Hitec customers free of charge.

The Fusion RX has not had any component updates or known failure modes to date. Nor was it “quietly recalled”. Hitec USA runs quality control checks on all products that move through our distribution center. Some of the Fusion RX’s were shipped and then returned due to not having been scrutinized by Q.C. inspections. After all this was a new product and we diligently attempt to make sure no issues exist. We have had two Fusion returned to Service of the 500 originally let complaining of vibration related issues, one was found to have a problem.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/26/2006 12:04 AM   
still4given



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

XJet,

It is not my intention to cause one to believe I'm down playing the admitted intermittent glitching issue of some Spectra modules fitted to Optic TX’s…Nothing less I have tried to put the real world behavior into perspective. Our extensive testing has revealed the problem is momentarily intermittent at best, not a sustained loss of control issue. We publicly acknowledge the problem via website forums such as this and via communication directly with Hitec Service.



mglavin,

I believe that calling it "momentarily intermittent at best" is certainly downplaying it. Two of the models I lost had no control for at least 20 seconds. One of my planes, an
Exceleron 50, lost control but fortunately it was in such an attitude that it did two huge outside loops before I gained control again and was able to land it. That took at least 15 to 20 seconds. These are not momentarily intermittent but complete lose of control for quite a few seconds at a time.

So, I have two Optic 6 transmitters with Spectra modules, which I sent in about three months ago. They were sent back to me with what appears to be two different, used modules and the sheet with them stated "intermittent" for the modules. I have been afraid to use them in any planes for fear they will begin exhibiting the same problems as before. What is this permanent fix that you have now come up with and if it really works, how do I go about getting it done on my transmitters so that I can begin using them again with confidence.


Thanks, Terry

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/26/2006 12:57 AM   
mglavin



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Status: offline 		Terry,

Hitec Service has observed or realized nothing but momentary intermittent glitches with customer’s equipment as evidenced by test equipment monitoring same...

The modules provided by Service were likely returned with your components in original used Spectra housings. Rest assured the combination was tested, evaluated and deemed air worthy prior to being returned to you. If you have the original Spectra module cases, the need to update the Optic rear case halve is moot.

That said, all anyone has to do is simply return there Optic TX and Spectra modules to Hitec Service with a note requesting the updated Optic rear case halve... And yes it works!

< Message edited by mglavin -- 10/27/2006 7:23 AM >

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/26/2006 2:49 AM   
Volante24


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin
That said, all anyone has to do is simply return there Optic TX and Spectra modules to Hitec Service with a note requesting the updated Optic rear case halve... And yes it works!


I am probably very naive, yet to be sure: is there any chance to simplify this procedure (on the case by case basis) if Hitec simply sends me the new half and I replace it myself? I can return the old one later. I can do such things, and since I will be doing this for myself and for my son, I am sure I would not do this worse than the Hitec pros, even if it may take me five times longer.

Nick

P.S. By the way, I bought both at Tower Hobbies and am not sure I keep their "invoices". I checked the other day that their records on their site still list both purchases -- but would this be sufficient for Hitec Service ?

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/26/2006 3:37 AM   
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Status: offline 		Nick,

The purchase receipt is likely not a problem in this case. We've been known to ship warranty parts out, no guarantees, I'll inquire.

On the other hand you may not have issue, if you'll recall your modules are the same size as my original units, 37.5mm.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/27/2006 9:43 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

XJet,
The Fusion RX has not had any component updates or known failure modes to date. Nor was it “quietly recalled”. Hitec USA runs quality control checks on all products that move through our distribution center.


Michael, you really ought to ask Hitec to keep you in the loop. What about this admission? which seems to contradict you.

quote:


Some of the Fusion RX’s were shipped and then returned due to not having been scrutinized by Q.C. inspections. After all this was a new product and we diligently attempt to make sure no issues exist. We have had two Fusion returned to Service of the 500 originally let complaining of vibration related issues, one was found to have a problem.


Hmmmm, which story do we believe? :-)


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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/27/2006 11:24 PM   
XJet


 

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Status: offline 		By the way, is the Fusion 9 based on the Multiplex synth design? If so, I would really like to buy one. When are they due back in the stores?

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/27/2006 11:28 PM   
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Status: offline 		X-Jet- I'm not sure why you felt the need to call Michael out here but he is correct as well. The first batch of Fusions were not quietly recalled but the second batch in which only a few shipped were as they were not all QC'd and it turned out there was a wrong component installed which caused a problem. We expect the Fusions to ship within a couple of weeks.

Okay?!?!?

Mike.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/30/2006 11:41 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin
Nick,

The purchase receipt is likely not a problem in this case. We've been known to ship warranty parts out, no guarantees, I'll inquire.

On the other hand you may not have issue, if you'll recall your modules are the same size as my original units, 37.5mm.


An update on dimensions. I looked closely at our `older' Spectra with the code
503. Its width is generally 37.5mm, varying though from as low as
37.1mm to 37.5mm along the side -- can be expected from a plastic
part.

Nevertheless, there was some clear lateral clearance between the
module and the walls of the housing. It looked more on one side than
on another, but that might depend on how the module is
positioned. Eventually I CAed a piece of 0.5mm thick plastic strip to
the wall (a single) of the TX cavity, not to the module, and put two layers of
scotch on the module on the opposite side. After that the module fit
perfectly, inserted without noticeable friction and yet no visible
clearance. Still to be seen how this may change under varying
temperature, however I don't think I'll be tempted to ever remove the
module, until it is really necessary.

So, the clearance even in the earlier produced Optic seems larger than discussed, at
least 0.5mm+.

So far no more information regarding the newer Optic with a 510 coded
Spectra, it is still a couple of thousands miles away from me.

Nick

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/31/2006 7:57 AM   
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Status: online 		Today I went into Hobby People in Rancho Cucamonga, CA. I needed some servos. During our conversation Optic 6 radios came up and I mentioned that I had had a problem with mine. One of the guys working in the store said he had had nothing but problems with his as well. As a matter of fact there had been 6 customers before me who had reported the exact same problems. I asked if they had heard anything from Hitec about the problem and they said no. I even asked the manager, who happened to be there, and she said Hitec had not mentioned any problems with the Optic 6 transmitters or the Spectra modules. So just who is it that Hitec is warning about this problem? I am going to visit all of the hobby stores that are within my drive to and from work (100 miles each way) and ask if Hitec has made them aware that there is a problem with the Optic 6 radio and Spectra modules. I'm also going to ask how many customers have reported glitch problems with them. I will report back here when I'm done. Let's see just how minimal this problem is.

Terry

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/1/2006 9:56 PM   
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Status: offline 		Terry- The radios currently being sold have been QC'd 100% and do not show any problems as the modules have added material to help seat them more securely.

You have voiced your concerns here many times, in fact the only posts you have made on RCU in the last month have been in this thread. No, we did not contact every dealer in the US and Canada so let me save you the trouble of visiting every hobby shop in your route.

Mike.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/1/2006 10:40 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeMayberry

Terry- The radios currently being sold have been QC'd 100% and do not show any problems as the modules have added material to help seat them more securely.

You have voiced your concerns here many times, in fact the only posts you have made on RCU in the last month have been in this thread. No, we did not contact every dealer in the US and Canada so let me save you the trouble of visiting every hobby shop in your route.

Mike.


Hi Mike,

Yes, you are correct. This is the only thread I have posted to on RCU. It is the only thread I follow on RCU. I am sent an email every time someone posts to this thread and I come and read what is the latest news from Hitec about this problem. This happens to be an issue I care deeply about since it affected my wallet and concerns the safety of everyone in the vicinity of anyone using an Optic 6/Spectra radio. I belong to an RC flyers club and there are a few fellows who are afraid to use their Optic 6 radios and are awaiting news that Hitec has a permanent fix. As long as I keep reading here that folks are still having the same problems, even after getting their transmitters back from Hitec, then I can't in good conscience, recommend to them that they send theirs in for repair. You guys continue to report that this is an intermittent problem and very rare and yet the more folks I ask, the more I hear the same stories. Maybe folks just figure that it is not worth dealing with and shelf their Optic 6 transmitters and just buy something else. Whatever the reason, Hitec must not be hearing from all of them, because believe me, there are many guys who have had these glitching problems. I shutter to think how many planes have gone in with the poor owner standing there wondering what happened, because he didn't know about this thread on RCU, and so, doesn't even know about this problem.

You're statement that the radios currently being sold should probably read, "currently leaving your factories", because you have no way of knowing how old the radios in the hobby stores are. There could still be many of the bad ones sitting on shelves in the Hobby stores waiting to be sold. It seems that the responsible thing to do would be for Hitec to notify the stores and have them look at the date codes on the Spectra modules in their stock, so they can send back the ones that are susceptible so you can do the mod to them before they get out into the public and cause more crashes.

I'm glad you had time to do a search of my posting record on this forum. Is there anything else you would like to know about me?

Blessings, Terry


< Message edited by still4given -- 11/1/2006 10:41 PM >

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/2/2006 12:01 AM   
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What he said.
Ralph

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/2/2006 1:28 AM   
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Status: offline 		I'm sure there are some people that spend time on these types of sites, but I'm sure there are a lot more people that fly RC that DO NOT spend time reading online forums, or even know they exist. In fact, out of the 7 friends that I fly regularly with, I am the only one that has ever been to this site, or ANY online forum. They get all their info from the LHS, or related magazines. If voicing ones concerns, or open discussion is frowned upon, there will be less.


< Message edited by Toker41 -- 11/2/2006 2:00 AM >

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/4/2006 6:06 PM   
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Last Login: 2/22/2013
From: Left of Center, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I talked to the pilot that collided with my plane. He says he has narrowed it down to a glitch on the Optic6 and Spectra. Says "wiggling the spectra seems to bring it on". He also told me he is just going to put it aside for now, as he has other TX's, and the season grows short. He does not spend time on the forums, and had no idea about the known issue with this unit. This now confirms that I am an innocent victim of this defect. Not a "non Optic owner looking in from the outside" but rather a bystander affected by this known, and unresolved issue.

_____________________________

There are 2 kinds of planes. Those that have crashed, and those that will...

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(in reply to Toker41)
       Post #: 172

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/4/2006 8:36 PM   
aramsdell


 

Posts: 95
Score: 100
Joined: 9/25/2006
Last Login: 4/16/2012
From: Sanford, ME, USA
Status: offline 		I would swear that my Optic 6 has been the problem lately. I've had several TREX -450 crashes. Under the closest scrutiny I find that I've had 2 bad receivers of dif. brands. Both rec.'s had had minor crashes into grass but I guess they were.t so minor after all.
The Optic 6 range tests fine with 1/2 the antenna coiled on a straw and the rest tied out to the tail skid. I checked those receivers with a brand new Eclipse 7 that I bought recently , with spectra module, They jittered just as bad with the new TX.
The E-7 is running in QPCM and I have range tested with the 1/2 coiled antenna and motor spinning slow to 300 feet no loss of control with antenna collapsed.
I'm sorry a lot of you are having trouble but I guess Mine hasn't been part of that overall problem.

HOWEVERIf the spectra glitches at all ( I will be using it in ppm also) I'll be back. Good luck Al




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       Post #: 173

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/7/2006 5:20 AM   
rdrude


 

Posts: 59
Score: 100
Joined: 11/16/2005
Last Login: 6/7/2012
From: Spring, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, when you have a glow plane at a certain altitude, or in a specific attitude, a momentary loss of signal can be a lifetime. A momentary loss of signal at 3 mistakes high is normally a recoverable situation. However, we can not predict when this momentary loss of signal will occur.

I lost 2 planes to this glitching issue, and the tone of Michael from Hitec speaks volumes to me. I am sure that some instances of loss of control can be expalined by dumb thumbs and other things. However, those of us who do not live on these forums were not aware of the problem, and would not have immediately thought to blame the Spectra unit. Plus, all of the accounts of this problem by members of this board all sound similar to me...

I appreciate that Hitec is willing to look over our units and take care of the problem. But for me it is too late. I lost 2 planes and shelved my Optic 6. I purchased a 7CAP and have not looked back.

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       Post #: 174

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 11/8/2006 7:38 PM   
chestercopperpot


 

Posts: 125
Score: 100
Joined: 9/7/2006
Last Login: 12/15/2006
From: Huntington Beach, CA, CHRISTMAS ISLANDS
Status: offline 		Why do I always end up buying cr@p? All my life, recently I got a Falcon 3d which decided to burn up on account of a pos Chinese ES, I then got a nice new optic 6 so that I wouldn't have any radio problems. I have had no problems so far but I don't want to chance it. I was planing on unloading this on ebay but I may do the Spektrum mod. Does the Spektrum mod change nothing but the final output signal from the tx?

Mike, this makes Hitec and you look very bad. This cost saving attempt on your end of making the customer send in the tx on their own dime with no real assurance that the problem is fixed and your own personal comments here have probably stooped me from ever buying another hitec product. This is why my local hobby dealer doesn't carry this radio, it's just to bad that I found this out after I purchased mine from Hobby Lobby.

P.S. You should thank Terry for caring enough to try and fix your companys problems for them.

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(in reply to rdrude)
       Post #: 175

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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros >> Radio Manufacturer Direct Support >> Hitec/MultiPlex Radios- Ask Hitec Customer Service >> RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching
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