MikeMayberry

My Feedback: (1)

Hey guys,

We are very sorry for these problems.

We've been looking into this issue and it appears that the problems stem from the fit of the module in the case cavity.

We have found that the problems go away when the module is more secure in the case... this can be achieved by using electrical tape on both sides of the module preventing it from moving around.

So at this time we would suggest everyone with an Optic and spectra module should do this. However, this problem only seems to take place with Spectra modules with a date code of 7/05 or newer. You can see the date code on a little round sticker on the module... 507 = 7/05. The first digit is the year with the second two the month.

We are working on a more permanent solution and will post the info on this when it is finalized.

Mike.

still4given

How do you get 7/05 out of 507? Why would somone intentionally reverse the numbers and what year/month does 507 stand for? July, 2005? May, 1997? I don't get it. Please explain. I will pick up some electrical tape and try it. Unfortunately, I may not know if it truely worked until I get my plane in the air. It doesn't glitch all of the time and only sometimes does it lose total signal. What happens if this band-aid fix doesn't work as it should and another one of my planes hits the dirt? Why is it that the Spectra module loses contact when it only moves a fraction of an inch. The pins go into the module almost 1/2".



Thanks, Terry

MikeMayberry

My Feedback: (1)

I explained that the first digit is the year and the second two are the month; that's just how they do it Korea. Not everywhere in the world do they list the month first.

It is advisable to do an extensive range check and test to the extent that you are comfortable before flying. Our tests show this solved the issue in 100% of the units we tested.

Mike.

still4given

Hi Mike,

Well, it didn't solve the issue in mine. I put the tape on the side of the Spectra modules. It is difficult to slide in and out now because of it but the one radio still has a dead spot where there is no signal being transmitted If you pull the module out a bit and work it in and out you can get it to transmit but the plane still glitches. My other one doesn't loses signal completely but the plane will glitch sometimes. I had to pull the module out and reinstall it a couple of times to get the glitching to stop. I did this at a field where no one else was at. If I turned off the transmitter off, the plane was completely calm. It only glitched when the transmitter was on. This is not a good thing. We have to be able to trust that our radios will work properly. There is great danger when a plane loses signal while flying.

Neither of my two Optic 6 transmitters have ever been dropped. Like I said, I do pull the modules several time a day while flying since I have several planes and they are all on different frequencies. That is what attracted me to his radio in the first place. I couldn't find my receipt for the first one I bought but I have a receipt for the Trainer I bought for my son the same day. It was Jan 14, 2006, so the transmitter is just over 6 months old. Can I get Hitec to warrant the work on this radio without a receipt? Surely you should be able to tell how old it is by the serial numbers or something. Please let me know. I may be able to get Hobby People to give me some sort of print-out for the day I bought it, but I'm not sure.

Thanks, Terry

MasterAlex

Mike,

Any progress that you can report??

*JCB*

My Feedback: (9)

my spectra module has a date of 12-04, should i be ok? i lost a plane to a glitch/radio hit just a couple of weeks ago and after reading this, i am VERY leary about continuing to fly with this radio.

thanks!

still4given

Hi Guys,

Ok, I wanted to report on what has transpired with my transmitters. I sent both in and received them back in about 1 1/2 weeks. The paper with them stated !QUOT!no problem found!QUOT! for both transmitters and !QUOT!intermittent!QUOT! for both Spectra modules. Hitec sent the transmitters back with replacement modules in them. I just tested them with a couple of planes and didn't see any glitches with either transmitters so for now, I'll assume that it was just the modules. I am still a bit leery of using them and will do some further testing before I try flying them again. I have converted most of my planes over to spread spectrum at this point. I may just wait to use these optic 6's until Hitec comes out with their version of the 2.4ghz.

Blessings, Terry

Flying-Preacher

Don't pull the train off the tracks right now; this issue is NOT restricted to the Optic line of transmitters!! I'm an Eclipse 7-channel owner having this problem. I just wrote a fairly detailed missive to the Tech Support guys at Hitec concerning symptoms in my Eclipse 7-channel transmitter that mirror your experiences. Something stinks here, and its not the truckload of pigs that just drove by.

My Eclipse 7-channel was purchased in October 2005, and performed in what I would characterize as a flawless manner until late February/early March this year. Since then, I have lost one nice Fancyfoam SU-29, and severely damaged a 10-300 Bipe by the same guys. I initially assumed that I'd experienced RFI or some other inexplicable phenomena, but over the last couple of months I zeroed in on the transmitter by: (1) purchasing a brand new Electron 6-channel receiver; (2) installing a relatively brand new Airtronics 92777Z receiver from another bird in my library.

The symptoms remained the same - wild fluttering of the control surfaces, servo hum, and the motor cannot be made to stop completely. I further noted that ANY subtle pressures on the Spectra module will cause extreme fluctuations and engine transitions. But even worse, you don't even have to be holding the transmitter for wild and crazy movements of the surfaces to occur!! At other times, there appears to be no signal at all coming from the transmitter, and then with a touch the signal reappears.

I wrote to Hitec this morning to ask questions about repairs, but NOW I see this is a broadening concern among the community of users who purchased their product. The trickle of complaints will soon become a flood. This is NOT an issue of repair ... a modification is in order.

To the guys at Hitec: Stop, Look and Listen!! Your customers are bringing YOU an issue that demands your most serious attention. I'm talking about your reputation in the marketplace, and (because we DO like your product) we're trying to get you to step to the front and give us some world-class customer support. Otherwise, we vote with our feet, and we won't be back!! A reputation for quality products and world-class customer service is priceless, and no amount of advertising dollars can or will redeem you if this BROADENING and GROWING issue is not quickly addressed to our satisfaction.

I speak from a long and extensive background in customer service, and I know that this thing is not going to just go away. You must take the positive and agressive steps to demonstrate to your customers that you care about their experience with your product. Listen, I believe you are apologetic for what I'm experiencing ... that's nice; but I have an issue that must be resolved, and I need a bit more than apologies ... I need a long-term solution.

Grace and peace,

The Flying-Preacher.

MikeMayberry

My Feedback: (1)

If you are still having problems, we suggest you send the radio and module in as there may be other issues other than the fit.

We are working for a more permenent solution but adjusting the fit with the tape has soved 90+% of the problems.

Please don't think we are sitting around hoping this problem will go away... As indicated we do offer World Class customer support and we are no way turning our backs on our customers that are having problems. Again, if you are still having any problems send your radio in and we will make sure it works the way it should before sending it back for you to use.

Mike.

still4given

Hi Mike,

Please don't think that we don't appreciate your involvement here. We do. I know that you feel that adding a piece of tape to the side of these modules is some kind of solution but it really appears that this is a time issued and not a fit issue. Both of my transmitters worked great when I first received them. It was only after a short period of time that they began to digress. Once it started though, it went south quickly. Losing a plane to radio problems is the most helpless feeling I can think of, not to mention dangerous. By the way, Your tech department replaced my modules with what apprear to be not new units. Perhaps they are rebuilt but the cases have scratches on them. If the fix is to add tape to them, why didn't your tech department do that? There is no tape on these modules.I still don't understand how side to side movement the thickness of one piece of tape is causing failure to these when the pins go into the module at least 1/4". This seems more like some kind of degradation to me.

Blessings, Terry

buzzard bait

Mike, if Hitec has identified a date of manufacture after which there are problems then the obvious response should be a recall. Otherwise what do we do, wait until one of our planes crashes? And it's not just the property loss, these things weigh several pounds, go 60 mph, and spin fibreglass knives at 14,000 rpm. A recall is what other manufacturers do when they produce something hazardous. Isn't Hitec worried about liability issues arising from a known hazardous defect? I certainly am.

I just bought one of these and didn't even intend to get a Spectra module. ServoCity was taking forever to get my frequency module so they finally sent me a Spectra module at no extra cost. A nice upgrade, till I saw this thread. Now I'm stuck with it.

In the meantime, it sounds to me like the only safe thing to do is to buy a regular frequency module. Isn't that correct? That's an expense we shouldn't have to incur. But waiting for Hitec to come up with a solution does not sound like a good option.


Jim

glenclif

I totally understand the frustration with the Optic 6. I wish I had seen this thread before I shipped my Optic 6 today. This sounds like the same problem I'm having, and fortunately I haven't crashed anything because I woudn't dare take a chance flying with this radio again.

I'm flying electrics and when I plug in the battery, the servos begin to jitter severly and swing to full throw, and the motor begins to turn on and off erracticaly. That would make sense if the TX wasn't transmitting a signal. I did not try jiggling the Spectra to see if it solved the problem.

Mine is already on the way to Hitec service for the 2nd time in less than 8 months for the same problem. If it is truly the Spectra module, then I would rather just have a fixed frequency replacement radio, as it's not worth losing a custom built plane over having the ability to change channels.

On the other hand, my Flash 5 has worked flawlessly for going on 5 years. Never a glitch or problem other than a new battery.

Hitec service has been outstanding in the past and I have no reason at this point to think otherwise....... but I now have spent $22.80 on shipping to Poway ($11.40 x 2 ) which no longer makes this radio a good buy.


Mike,

My radio is already on the way, please keep it as long as necessary to find the correct repair as it is useless with these problems. Feel free to throw in a couple of HS55's on the return trip to make up for the shipping I've had to pay to get the radio back to California two times.

Glenn

Flying-Preacher

8/7/2006 Update: After venting my frustrations at the "solution" of electrical tape, I thought to myself, "go ahead and give it a try." And try I did! I wrapped the Spectra module with electrical tape on (one layer only) on both ends, and I managed to "squeeze" it back into the cavity by incrementally pushing it in and pulling it out until the tape was depressed enough to allow the module to fully seat, while being able to remove it without breaking the tabs securing the module. I actually enjoyed ONE flight on one of my birds before "WHAMMO, ZAP, JITTER" and the previously mentioned uncharacteristic symptoms returned with a vengeance. So, today in humility, I've bundled up my precious toy and shipped it off to Hitec Customer Service.

At the end of the day, the only recourse left is to trust Hitec to find and repair this issue or chuck the Spectra module for a fixed frequency and HOPE against hope that there's nothing else wrong with the basic transmitter beyond that. You see, our discussions to this point have focused on the performance of the Spectra module, but it occurs to me that the symptoms I've experienced for all practical purposes could also be in the transmitter circuitry somewhere, giving the appearance of an issue with the Spectra module.

A good control test would be to insert a basic frequency module into the cavity and see how the system performs; unfortunately, I don't have a fixed frequency module at my disposal. Can anybody speak to the matter of "life after the Spectra module?" In other words, has anybody canned the Spectra module and found that the performance issues vaporized?

Now, we wait. "Wait, I say on the Lord."

Pastor Mike

glenclif

Pastor Mike,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks there is more of a problem than the Spectra Module. I shipped mine last week for repair.

Fortunately I did not loose a plane as others have, when this radio started acting up again, I used my Flash 5.

I too would be happy to have an Optic 6 that works properly, even if I have to ditch the Spectra and use a fixed frequency crystal.

I'm sure Hitec knows there are other issues besides a loose Spectra, and I suggest you send yours in for repair as I did. Hitec has a good service reputation and I'm sure they will solve this issue.

( A little prayer for the technicians woudn't hurt either )

Glenn

Flying-Preacher

Glenn: I did bundle it up today, and I sent it by Priority Mail to Hitec's Customer Service. I don't have an objection to the technicians looking the entire system over; I think what I was really objecting to was the suggestion that "electrical tape" around the module would resolve the issue. I didn't trot out (or hold up to brag about) my nearly 20 years of maintaining highly complex Air Force space-ground communications systems along with various radar transmitter/receiver systems, and main-frame computer systems, but I can tell you from the perspective of those years of experience that throwing a little electrical tape around that Spectra module sounds very much akin to the old "Throw a little Duct tape" on some malfunction. It doesn't pass a certain test of reason for the fact that the pins on the connector block inside the cavity where the Spectra module resides are nearly .5" long. They protrude up into the female pins at LEAST that much. So, what does a little electrical tape around the edges of the module do for the electrical connection? NADA!! ... ZILCH!

I'm simply asking the folks at Hitec to give us a little credit for being able to see the obvious - these wild and crazy jitters, this inconsistency of the transmitted signal, this corruption of the data link in a digitally encoded link suggest strongly there's a component malfunction at some point. Given the technician's troubleshooting guides/calibration manuals and the appropriate test, measurement, and diagnostic equipment, I could diagnose the issue and be able to present a technically sound analysis of this problem, but those tools and data sources are beyond my reach.

As you've indicated, prayer for the technicians is definitely in order. Please bear with me in expressing that prayer right here: Father in heaven I do ask your grace, wisdom and peace in the lives of the Hitec technicians who are working diligently to resolve this issue. I pray that you will lead them to an expeditious resolution for all of us who are experiencing this particular difficulty. I ask this grace and blessing in the name of Jesus Christ my Lord. (I do recognize and respect that not every reader holds the same view of Him as I; I therefore claim full ownership and responsibility for using THAT name here. The view expressed by ME does not represent the views or opinions of Hitec RCD, the moderators of this forum, or any other user of this forum) How's that for a disclaimer?

Pastor Mike

glenclif

Amen.

I agree that maybe some of the radios are having a Spectra Module problem, but when I sent mine in last time, they replaced the main board. It worked fine again for a few months and then started the exact same set of problems as before.



Mike Mayberry,

We haven't heard from you in a while on this forum. Any new developments with this issue?

Flying-Preacher

Glenn: Without knowing or seeing the exact components or circuitry involved, here’s my speculation regarding these transmitter glitches. I’ll try to minimize the technical jargon.

First, all of the switches, control sticks, buttons, or knobs on the external of the transmitter are “analog� devices – meaning that they send all or some portion of a voltage through the device based on actuation of the switch, stick, button, or knob. For example, a voltage is present at a potentiometer i.e. a trim control, and any adjustment of that control sends a bit more or less of that voltage into an analog to digital conversion circuit. Even a so-called “digital� trim performs this function; though what happens in that case is a bump on the trim switch digitally increments an IC chip/amplifier to output a digital set of pulses representing the desired directional adjustment. This principle remains the same for all of the external switches, knobs, or buttons.

How the internal amplifiers respond to movements of major control inputs (i.e. rudder, elevator, and aileron) is determined by special circuits (exponential, proportional, or logarithmic) that calibrate the signal from the control sticks by some algorithm. When I first got into the hobby everything was “proportional� but now we have options for how the amplifier circuits respond.

Second, all of those various inputs from the external switches, etc. are used to create “modulating� pulses for the transmitted signal. Basically, in any transmitter/receiver system (AM, FM, PCM, QPCM, etc.) the “information� that is needed at the receiver to provide control signals to the servo motors onboard the aircraft is impressed onto the radio frequency carrier for the “channel� on which the transmitter is operating. Without going further into that concept, the transmitted output on each “channel� is a basic radio frequency (RF) carrier signal that has been modified with discrete “information bits� that the onboard receiver must decode and properly distribute to the servos or other devices in the aircraft. This is the basic RF modulation/demodulation theory, whether we’re discussing digital or analog transmitter/receiver links.

With the Eclipse and Optic systems (we’re talking about Hitec transmitters, but the same principle applies for Futaba or JR products with the synthesizer capability) we have the capability of dialing up a “channel� on the Spectra module. When we’re selecting a channel, all we’re doing is tuning a frequency network inside the RF module to use a particular output frequency as its base carrier signal to be modulated with the “information� we intend to transmit.

When we experience what we laypeople call a “glitch� we can narrow the possible root causes of the problem to the transmitter if the onboard receiver or servos are isolated/eliminated by obvious things like changing receivers, eliminating crossover caused by wiring, problems with the onboard battery, solder joints, breaks in wiring, or onboard servo-amplifier problems. We also can narrow the possible root cause to the transmitter by ensuring there are no environmental problems of other transmitters creating interference by direct transmissions on our selected channels or what is called “Third Order Inter-modulation.� Third order inter-modulation (also known as harmonic distortion) has not been a problem for us since the introduction of the so-called “narrow band� transmitter/receiver systems.

If the onboard equipment (including the receiver) and the environment are eliminated as root causes of the “glitch� then this leaves us a very narrow community of possibilities for the sporadic servo transitions, inconsistent output signal, and apparent “deadness� of the channel that some of us are experiencing.

Let’s take them in order: sporadic transitions on one and only one function e.g. ailerons is a different creature from wild and crazy transitions of ALL functions. I’m experiencing sporadic transitions on ALL functions. In my mind’s eye, this represents an “encoding� problem – something inside the transmitter is causing the RF signal to be “modulated� sporadically, erratically, and absolutely independent of the switches, knobs, or buttons on the external case of the transmitter.

Unless ALL of the analog to digital and amplifier circuits are populated inside the Spectra module, this points to a board inside the transmitter rather than the frequency module.

Inconsistent output signal can be caused by an inconsistency in the physical signal path to the antenna – maybe a loose wire or a crack in a track on a circuit card. It could be caused by the RF cavity/oscillator/crystal being unstable. It could be caused by antenna problems at the transmitter or onboard the aircraft.

“Deadness� of the output is the tricky part of this discussion because what may appear as deadness, or absence, of the modulated output signal could really mean the base carrier frequency is NOT being modulated by any “information� inside the transmitter. The net result is the symptom witnessed would be that the aircraft does not respond to any stick, button or knob adjustments on the transmitter. The only way to know if there is absolutely NO output radiated from the antenna is to use a field strength meter to sample the environment; or a person could use an RF spectrometer to visually graph transmissions in the selected portion of the RF spectrum. One real benefit of a spectrometer is that you’d also have a visual on the purity/quality of the radiated signal.

Okay, now why did I object to the “electrical tape� solution? I objected because there is nothing in that solution that makes sense from a technician’s perspective. The module is secured by lock tabs so that physical movements are virtually nil. Second, the pins on the connector block inside the Spectra cavity penetrate nearly .5� into the module; there’s no problem of physical connections there. If the issue is a crack in a track on a circuit card, stabilizing the module is NOT a solution because it does not correct the real problem. Taping the module will not fix an overheating problem or an issue with a component that has unstable operation. If there are conditions inside the transmitter creating spurious signals that are modulating the RF signal erratically/sporadically, tape on the module is not a solution.

Now that I’ve written this book, I rest my case. As indicated, I have already dispatched my transmitter to Hitec Customer Service, and (on your suggestion) I’ve prayed for the technicians. I promise not to beat this horse anymore.

PS: I don’t personally beat horses, I don’t know anybody who has or does beat horses, and I neither condone nor endorse the beating thereof.

Pastor Mike

glenclif

Pastor,

That was longer than last Sundays sermon

glenclif

Update

I received my radio back today.... the turn around time was good. From Florida to California and back in 16 days. The service ticket says no problem found with the TX, Spectra Module intermittant, Replaced Module. Wow.... I just realized the new module has a date code of 507.

I hope this was my last shipment to service with this radio, time will tell.

Glenn

Flying-Preacher

Glenn: Miracles DO happen!
I shipped my Eclipse to Hitec and received Delivery confirmation on 8/9/2006. Now, I'm waiting for the return. My Spectra module was in that exact same batch as the one you received on return. Since that's the series that Hitec acknowledges as problematic, I can only hope that the answer back is not "no problem found."

Grace and peace,

Pastor Mike

glenclif

I'll just be happy if it works with out glitching. The module that Hitec replaced mine with, is one that has been well used. The little arrows that point to the channel numbers are almost completely worn out. I actually had to use a magnifying glass to see where the arrow is pointing to set my frequency. Hopefully it's been rebuilt, or checked out by Hitec. The Spectra still sits loose in the TX case and is subject to jiggles. I guess I'll try the electrical tape fix to secure the module in the TX, and see if it works. I never change channels anyway, I wish I had bought a fixed frequency module in the first place. I like the radio and it's features and up to this point I've always been completely satisfied with Hitec products, warranty, and their service department. I hope this last repair doesn't change my mind.

I'll report back after trying the radio out.

Glenn

still4given

When I got mine back, the report was the same. No problem found in TX, Module intermittent. The modules they replace in mine also looked well used but not as bad as those reported here. One has a date code of 408 and the other 412. I did try them with a couple different planes which were on different frequencies. I didn't see any glitches but am still leery of trying to fly using them. They will sit in their cases until for some reason I NEED to use them. I have switched over most of my planes to Spektrum DX6 radios. I haven't seen a glitch since. I'm hoping that Hitec comes out with their versions of spread spectrum soon. I will likely buy the modules for those. I prefer the features of the Optic 6 to the Spektrum.

It is also comforting to know that you had the same problems as I and you didn't use several frequencies. I was afraid that it was caused by pulling and replacing the module numerous times. I guess you have proved that not to be the case.

Blessings, Terry

Flying-Preacher

Glenn:
I wrote "miracles DO happen" in response to hearing of the phenomenal turnaround time you experienced with Hitec in the transport of your transmitter from and back to Florida; well let's just "ditto" that for me as well because my "miracle" was sitting at my front door when I arrived home late last evening. I know from the postal service delivery confirmation that Hitec Customer service received my Eclipse 7-channel on 8/9/06. This calculates to an 8-day turnaround including a weekend and transport time - that is "world-class" in my mind. Kudos to Hitec!!

Like a kid on Christmas morning, I eagerly opened the package to see what "gift" would be inside, and like others have reported, I too received a "No problem" report on the transmitter. The annotation indicated that the Spectra module was "fixed." However, on close examination I found it was simply replaced with another. The replacement is NOT a new module, but rather is one that someone has modified per Michael's electrical tape fix. It is unclear whether or not this is a new module modified by a Hitec technician or one returned by another customer, checked out by the techs, and now reissued to me.

This module is absent the round sticker identifying the year/month that the batch was manufactured; therefore I henceforth will have no sense of how old it is. One observation concerning this issue is the problematic batch(es) appear to have begun predominantly with the "507" group; though owners of modules beyond that period experienced this "glitching" problem we've been discussing.

I did plug everything in and turn it on for my FancyFoam 10-300, and there were no unusual motor transitions or control surface movements experienced. Nor did I hear the servos humming as previously described. I intend to keep all models grounded for the next several days and run an extended series of on/off exercises with various receivers on different channels. Afterwards, I'll chance flying the birds. Prudence says to proceed with extreme caution before launching any of my aircraft, for obvious reasons.

I'll report back to this forum after executing this strategy.

Grace and peace,

Pastor Mike

Toker41

I was SO close to buying this radio. Now, not so much. I need something dependable. I don't see Hitec offering to reimburse for any planes lost, and I have over $500 in my plane so far. I wouldn't really expect that from any company, except for the fact that this is a very large, and very KNOWN problem. Sorry, but the "try this" thing just doesn't work. I have to agree with the post that called for a RECALL. Someone could get seriously hurt, or even killed. Telling us to "put tape on it" just doesn't cut it, not to mention only opens the door further for lawsuits when things go (God forbid) really bad. Also, when I send in a NEW radio for repair (which is bad enough on it's own), I certainly should NOT expect it to come back with USED parts.

Just wondering...what is the ratio between the people having problems, and people that have had no problems at all. Are these problems more so in the Optic 6, or are they just as common in the Eclipse 7?

Either way, I think I'm going with the Futaba 9c and synth mod. Just can't take the chance. Shame, I was very interested in this unit.

glenclif

Update

I tried my Optic 6 over the weekend. Only one short flight with a plane that was glitching wildly before. The airplane behaved as it should without the glitching problems. Note that I did the electrical tape fix before flying, as the Spectra module was loose in the TX cavity and is much tighter with the tape now.

So far, mine seems to be working properly, with only one flight under it's belt. If the problem doesn't return in a few months like it did before, then I'll put my trust in this radio again.

I still like Hitec products, and their warranty, and will continue to remain a loyal customer, unless this issue starts again.

Glenn