RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching
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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros >> Radio Manufacturer Direct Support >> Hitec/MultiPlex Radios- Ask Hitec Customer Service >> RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 12:07:22 AM

Toker41

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Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Marlton, NJ, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toker41

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion; and its just that an opinion and you have certainly expressed yours on many occasions. Since you are not an OEM, importer, distributor, dealer, sub-dealer and or a hobby shop it maybe difficult to fathom the reality of how things work in the corporate world of bringing products to the masses, research & development, out-sourcing and more. Apparently the number of reported problems is not alarming in the scheme of things; I honestly don't know this is my opinion. When you consider the numbers of units sold to the small number of complaints reported here it seems no worse than the atypical problems that bear fruit regardless of real world anomalies (such as component failures or assembly short-comings). Electronic devices have an anticipated failure rate; it’s the nature of the beast.

While I’m not trying to suggest modelers haven’t had problems, for some it simply is not so. There are many variables that cause and affect interference, not to mention dumb thumbs, poor installation techniques, damaged or equipment in poor repair, someone turning on the same frequency and obviously lots more. Human nature often finds fault with products or points fingers at others rather than assuming personal responsibility. It’s rather convenient to find an easy out for some IMO.

Lastly I must have missed the part where you had experience with an Optic 6 TX equipped with Spectra module that was working intermittently? Having first hand information with a product and its short-comings if any weighs very heavy with me… Anything else is hearsay in my mind. However I feel many of your thoughts and assertions are valid and bear consideration, after-all this is a discussion forum.

Here is where you suggested "poor installation technique".

You state that it's human nature to "find fault and point fingers rather than accept personal responsibility", and give a good example.

Also, do I expect to hear about a recall on the 6:00 news? No, of course not. That would be silly. I would, however, expect notification to the AMA. Since they are an insurance provider, I would think they would be more than happy to help in notifying the public about such dangers. I believe every AMA member (and you shouldn't be flying if you are not) gets a magazine from them in the mail each month or so. There are ways to notify the consumers. Excuses about lack of a way don't hold water. Hitec finds a way to notify it's target consumers when they market a new product without the help of the 6:00 news.
Has Hitec notified the AMA about the potential dangers of the Spectra from this lot? I could be wrong, but I would think they would at least be interested to know about it. An article about a fix for it sure might reach a few people.
There are ways, and there are excuses. Each is a choice.

< Message edited by Toker41 -- 10/25/2006 1:01:46 AM >

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Post #: 151

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 12:53:40 AM

mglavin

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From: Elverta, CA, USA
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Toker41,

I believe you've taken my comments out of context with regard to “poor installation techniques”. I specifically qualified my comment see below in quotes.

“There are many variables that cause and affect interference, not to mention dumb thumbs, poor installation techniques, damaged or equipment in poor repair, someone turning on the same frequency and obviously lots more.”

Lastly the second halve of the first paragraph of my comments quoted in your post above addresses the reasoning and or response in regard suggesting THE problem realized of Optics and some Spectra modules. The numbers simply do not support your assertions and or opinion… Again you’re not the OEM, just a bystander without a problematic Optic looking in.

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Post #: 152

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 1:17:05 AM

Toker41

Posts: 309
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Marlton, NJ, USA
Status: offline

I'm a little more than that. Regardless, as you stated, this is an open forum discussion.

That being said...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeMayberry

Hey guys,

We are very sorry for these problems.

We've been looking into this issue and it appears that the problems stem from the fit of the module in the case cavity.

We have found that the problems go away when the module is more secure in the case... this can be achieved by using electrical tape on both sides of the module preventing it from moving around.

So at this time we would suggest everyone with an Optic and spectra module should do this. However, this problem only seems to take place with Spectra modules with a date code of 7/05 or newer. You can see the date code on a little round sticker on the module... 507 = 7/05. The first digit is the year with the second two the month.

We are working on a more permanent solution and will post the info on this when it is finalized.

Mike.

I'm a bit confused here, or maybe I missed something. Clearly, and admittedly, there is a manufacturing, or design problem leading to a defect with Spectra units with date codes of 7/05 or newer. Am I wrong?

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Post #: 153

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 1:38:12 AM

mglavin

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From: Elverta, CA, USA
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While it could be construed as a defect, not everyone has issue so I believe it’s more like problematic behavior.

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Post #: 154

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 4:05:06 AM

richie68

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: Marion, OH, USA
Status: offline

Well,Im not an electronics genious,but I do have several radios;among them an old prism 7x that I bought in 1999.It has always been nothing but rock solid.I put a sprecta module in it about 3 years ago,and I havent had any problems.I like to use it for park flyers,because I can put 2 or 3 planes in my van,and just one transmitter.Apparently the problem doesnt exist with the 7x,or maybe I havent flown it enough yet.One thing,the module fits so damn tight in the 7x,that you have to take a small screwdriver,and lever back and forth on the locking tabs to get it out.Im going to take my dremel,and mark where the setting pots rest when in place,and grind the ridge of the module cavity so I can set the frequency without removing the module.

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Post #: 155

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 5:10:15 AM

mglavin

Posts: 5203
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From: Elverta, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: richie68

Well,Im not an electronics genious,but I do have several radios;among them an old prism 7x that I bought in 1999.It has always been nothing but rock solid.I put a sprecta module in it about 3 years ago,and I havent had any problems.I like to use it for park flyers,because I can put 2 or 3 planes in my van,and just one transmitter.Apparently the problem doesnt exist with the 7x,or maybe I havent flown it enough yet.One thing,the module fits so damn tight in the 7x,that you have to take a small screwdriver,and lever back and forth on the locking tabs to get it out.Im going to take my dremel,and mark where the setting pots rest when in place,and grind the ridge of the module cavity so I can set the frequency without removing the module.

Or you could send the Spectra module to Hitec for a free check-up and request a smaller case be fitted to your components, no charge of course...

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Post #: 156

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 8:52:46 AM

XJet

Posts: 3463
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

While it could be construed as a defect, not everyone has issue so I believe it’s more like problematic behavior.

I've been following this discussion with interest (and more than a little bit of a smile).

I've got a Spectra that alternates between my Eclipse 7 and my Optic 6 and has never been anything other than rock-solid -- so I personally have no complaints.

However, I can't really say that your passing off an obvious defect as "problematic behavior" is a reasonable presentation of the facts.

If there is a known problem with newer Spectra modules in Optic 6 cases that can (and often does) cause glitching with the very real potential for this to result in a crash (possibly involving damage to property or person) -- then Hitec ought not to be downplaying and calling it "problematic behavior".

I don't think any of the major auto-makers would get away with defining "occasional break failure" as merely being "problematic behavior". Likewise, suggesting that they perform their own repairs by taping up a known-leaky hydraulic line would probably not be seen as the ethical thing to do.

One of the things that Hitec has developed a very enviable and highly respected reputation for is its support and service. In this area (to date) Hitec can proudly hold its head up high and feel justified in claiming to be "the best" in the industry.

However, the attitudes I'm seeing here to what is a very real flaw that is clearly affecting a number of people, is less than "first class" and seems atypical for Hitec.

If the scale of the problem is really as small as claimed, it would cost Hitec very little to repair or replace all the faulty units by way of a recall. That this doesn't seem to be the case leaves one wondering just a little whether the true scale and magnitude of the problem is perhaps being understated.

I wonder this because I was told that the Optic 6 AAAA problem was *tiny* and affected only a very small percentage of the first Optic 6's ever made. So what were the chances that *my* Optic 6 would suffer this fate. Well perhaps I'm just *very* unlucky -- but it did -- and the freight cost involved in returning it to the USA (from where it was purchased) made it virtually uneconomic to bother with the free firmware update. Wipe one Optic 6.

I also wonder what the odds were that *my* QPCM receiver would be one of those very few that suffered from poor resolution and decidedly "steppy" output. Well guess what -- bad luck for me again.

What chance also that one of my four HS5925 servos would be all stiff and slow for some unknown reason?

I guess I should bundle all this stuff up and send it back for repair -- but the cost of postage and the hassle involved is significant -- so it sits here under my bench gathering dust -- but that's the risk you take when you buy over the Net from US sources but live at the bottom of the world so I accept it.

I do know however, that if I did send this stuff back, Hitec would fix it up for what would likely be just a nominal amount -- and that's why I keep buying Hitec gear and generally I'm pretty pleased with it.

To now discover that you're passing off a known and acknowledged manufacturing defect as nothing more than "problematic behavior" gets me a little worried -- for your own good reputation that is.

Don't do yourself a disservice. Hitec's gear is pretty good stuff, great value and has (to date) been backed up by levels of suppor the rest can only aspire to. Don't mess that up.

By the way, I *was* lucky enough not to buy one of the first batch of Fusion 9 receivers -- you know, the ones that seem to have been quietly recalled due to a faulty component. Just dodged that bullet eh? :-) I'd hate to add to that growing pile of "broken from new" Hitec stuff under my bench.

I have to point out that, despite all the "bad out of the box" Hitec stuff I've accumulated, by purchasing form the USA through the Net I've still saved about 35% over the price of buying the same stuff through the local distributor and his dealers (even taking int account the money lost on that "never did work right from new" equipment).

Now if Hitec would just allow me (by way of providing spares/tech-info) to fix/update my own stuff (and that of other Kiwis buying Hitec gear direct from the USA) then I (and many other NZers) would be totally happy.

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 8:43:34 PM

mglavin

Posts: 5203
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From: Elverta, CA, USA
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XJet,

It is not my intention to cause one to believe I'm down playing the admitted intermittent glitching issue of some Spectra modules fitted to Optic TX’s…Nothing less I have tried to put the real world behavior into perspective. Our extensive testing has revealed the problem is momentarily intermittent at best, not a sustained loss of control issue. We publicly acknowledge the problem via website forums such as this and via communication directly with Hitec Service.

Yes, the tape solution was/is crude, but works in most cases. A permanent FIX has been affected and is offered to all Hitec customers free of charge.

The Fusion RX has not had any component updates or known failure modes to date. Nor was it “quietly recalled”. Hitec USA runs quality control checks on all products that move through our distribution center. Some of the Fusion RX’s were shipped and then returned due to not having been scrutinized by Q.C. inspections. After all this was a new product and we diligently attempt to make sure no issues exist. We have had two Fusion returned to Service of the 500 originally let complaining of vibration related issues, one was found to have a problem.

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Post #: 158

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 9:04:04 PM

still4given

Posts: 463
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Victorville, CA, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

XJet,

It is not my intention to cause one to believe I'm down playing the admitted intermittent glitching issue of some Spectra modules fitted to Optic TX’s…Nothing less I have tried to put the real world behavior into perspective. Our extensive testing has revealed the problem is momentarily intermittent at best, not a sustained loss of control issue. We publicly acknowledge the problem via website forums such as this and via communication directly with Hitec Service.

mglavin,

I believe that calling it "momentarily intermittent at best" is certainly downplaying it. Two of the models I lost had no control for at least 20 seconds. One of my planes, an
Exceleron 50, lost control but fortunately it was in such an attitude that it did two huge outside loops before I gained control again and was able to land it. That took at least 15 to 20 seconds. These are not momentarily intermittent but complete lose of control for quite a few seconds at a time.

So, I have two Optic 6 transmitters with Spectra modules, which I sent in about three months ago. They were sent back to me with what appears to be two different, used modules and the sheet with them stated "intermittent" for the modules. I have been afraid to use them in any planes for fear they will begin exhibiting the same problems as before. What is this permanent fix that you have now come up with and if it really works, how do I go about getting it done on my transmitters so that I can begin using them again with confidence.

Thanks, Terry

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Post #: 159

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 9:57:25 PM

mglavin

Posts: 5203
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From: Elverta, CA, USA
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Terry,

Hitec Service has observed or realized nothing but momentary intermittent glitches with customer’s equipment as evidenced by test equipment monitoring same...

The modules provided by Service were likely returned with your components in original used Spectra housings. Rest assured the combination was tested, evaluated and deemed air worthy prior to being returned to you. If you have the original Spectra module cases, the need to update the Optic rear case halve is moot.

That said, all anyone has to do is simply return there Optic TX and Spectra modules to Hitec Service with a note requesting the updated Optic rear case halve... And yes it works!

< Message edited by mglavin -- 10/27/2006 4:23:28 AM >

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RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/25/2006 11:49:52 PM

Volante24

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From: Notre Dame, IN, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin
That said, all anyone has to do is simply return there Optic TX and Spectra modules to Hitec Service with a note requesting the updated Optic rear case halve... And yes it works!

I am probably very naive, yet to be sure: is there any chance to simplify this procedure (on the case by case basis) if Hitec simply sends me the new half and I replace it myself? I can return the old one later. I can do such things, and since I will be doing this for myself and for my son, I am sure I would not do this worse than the Hitec pros, even if it may take me five times longer.

Nick

P.S. By the way, I bought both at Tower Hobbies and am not sure I keep their "invoices". I checked the other day that their records on their site still list both purchases -- but would this be sufficient for Hitec Service ?

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Post #: 161

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/26/2006 12:37:46 AM

mglavin

Posts: 5203
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From: Elverta, CA, USA
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Nick,

The purchase receipt is likely not a problem in this case. We've been known to ship warranty parts out, no guarantees, I'll inquire.

On the other hand you may not have issue, if you'll recall your modules are the same size as my original units, 37.5mm.

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Post #: 162

RE: Optic/Spectra Glitching - 10/27/2006 6:43:59 AM

XJet

Posts: 3463
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

XJet,
The Fusion RX has not had any component updates or known failure modes to date. Nor was it “quietly recalled”. Hitec USA runs quality control checks on all products that move through our distribution center.

Michael, you really ought to ask Hitec to keep you in the loop. What about this admission? which seems to contradict you.

quote:

Some of the Fusion RX’s were shipped and then returned due to not having been scrutinized by Q.C. inspections. After all this was a new product and we diligently attempt to make sure no issues exist. We have had two Fusion returned to Service of the 500 originally let complaining of vibration related issues, one was found to have a problem.

Hmmmm, which story do we believe? :-)

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Post #: 163