RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!!  
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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/13/2009 3:00 AM   
gabe_tuft


 

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Status: offline 		Well, it sounds like you have some of the same issues I have been experiencing.

First, as far as the "spinning like a top" problem, check all of your shaft gears and the gear set on the tail box. You may have a stripped shaft and it may be spinning while the nylon gear sits there without moving.

The servo binding is really frustrating for me. Mine was doing the same thing. I adjusted the location of the servo on the boom so that I have almost no issues trimming the yaw. However, the servo still binds when I push the stick to the extreme right. I use a Tower Pro 9g servo, so it doesn't bind, it actually causes the whole boom to deflect. I just ordered a digital servo from Xheli in hopes that might solve the problem. That should be here in a few days and I will let ya know then. Personally, I think the gyro is a piece of poop, and the TX has something to be desired.

Also, watch where you hold the transmitter (TX). The crystal is on the back of the transmitter in the top middle. If you push on it with your fingers while you are plugged in, you will get glitching.

Hope this helps.

Gabe

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/13/2009 3:04 AM   
gabe_tuft


 

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Status: offline 		Michael,

Thanks for all your help bro. I think I got it all figured out. I just had to go tinker and fly the bi$ch for a while. I got it dialed in now in 3d all the time. I really enjoy flying it.

Thanks again!

Gabe

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/14/2009 2:43 PM   
jnich



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Status: offline 		If any of you are close to Deerfield Beach, Florida I have a once flown (by my experienced neighbor - checkout flight) Falcon 3D and some upgrade metal parts and some spare parts never installed that I will never fly that I will let go for 75% of current cost. PM me.

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/15/2009 9:13 AM   
wlemay08


 

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Status: offline 		I don't see any missing teeth on any of the gears or anything like that, and I wouldn't expect it anyway because the spinning happened before the mini-crash (which was the first crash, since it was only the fifth flight!).

I'm waiting for new blade grips (the one part I forgot to order in my "crash kit"...pretty basic), and thinking about getting a new gyro and tail servo while I am at it. Any suggestions, anyone?

Thanks,

W

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/15/2009 12:46 PM   
gabe_tuft


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys,

I finally went to set up/ check my pitch curve and I noticed that I'm only getting +6 to -6 in both normal and 3d mode. I've exhausted moving the PLT and PIT knobs around and I've also noticed that my pitch arm is maxed out in the positive direction.

Any ideas?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/15/2009 3:44 PM   
Michael211


 

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quote:

This heli is driving me nuts. Sometimes it spins like a top when I pick it up off the ground, and sometimes it flies just fine. At times the rudder servo seems to bind in normal throw, and at times not. I have adjusted the horn four or five times, only to find myself adjusting it back. I've checked all the connections, gyro, all that of course.
...
Any thoughts anyone? Bad gyro or servo maybe? I am thinking of upgrading both just in case, but I am on a budget. Has anyone heard of the 9G EXI Digital Metal Gear Servo d213F or the MKS GY-292 Pro Heading Lock gyro? Or any other suggestions?


Ok let me get this straight... without you changing anything at all, sometimes the rudder servo binds against the tail, and other times it seems just fine? Either you actually did change something, or else you have some flakey electronics somewhere (and it could be the radio system, the gyro, or possibly the rudder servo even; don't ask me which because I have no way of knowing!).

Try unplugging the gain lead to the gyro from Channel 5 on the rx and then get your rudder servo set exactly so, so that it does not bind AT ALL in either direction. Unplugging the Channel 5 lead on the rx puts the gyro into Normal or Rate mode (depending on the terms you prefer; it's no longer HeadLocked). With Channel 5 plugged back in, the gyro goes back to HeadLock mode. Be sure to plug Channel 5 back in before you try flying it again! You WANT the gyro in HeadLock mode when you're flying it.

The spinning around sounds to me like the tail is losing authority (ie. stops spinning fast enough for the tailblades pitch to counteract the torque the main motor is putting on the heli). With the heli disarmed, hold the head with your right hand, then with your left hand gently but firmly (don't force it hard!) try to turn the tail rotor.... it should resist being turned. But, if you can turn the tail rotor while holding the head still, then you have something slipping somewhere! It may not be slipping all the time (ie. in a stable hover the tail is spinning at the right speed, but in forward flight with you initiating a turn it may put just enough load on the tail rotor that it starts to slip... or, that binding rudder servo might be causing the gears to seperate when it binds against the pitch mechanism, pushing the tail boom slightly to 1 side).

Regards!

- Michael


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/15/2009 3:49 PM   
Michael211


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gabe_tuft

Hey guys,

I finally went to set up/ check my pitch curve and I noticed that I'm only getting +6 to -6 in both normal and 3d mode. I've exhausted moving the PLT and PIT knobs around and I've also noticed that my pitch arm is maxed out in the positive direction.

Any ideas?


You should be getting +10 to -10 pitch (you probably already know that though). Is the pushrod on the pitch servo on the outer most hole of it's control horn? There is plenty of pitch available (mechanically speaking) in the Falcon's setup, mine easily goes from +10 to -10 and always has. However I never checked the pitch range back when I was using my original Art-Tech transmitter, I just went with the 10 and 2 o'clock dial positions and it flew fine with plenty of collective "pop" available.

Gabe are you saying that turning the right-side knob does not appear to affect the maximum pitch range at all? That's all that knob does, is set the maximum limit of the pitch... if it's not changing something, then your transmitter is broke.

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/15/2009 8:29 PM   
gabe_tuft


 

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Status: offline 		The PLT knob only affects the maximum pitch range in normal mode. I was under the impression it is supposed to have some adjustment in 3D mode.

As far as the pitch servo goes, no the pushrod is in the center of the horn. BUT, I noticed that the actual pitch arm wont extend any further and even though the servo can throw further, it won't affect the pitch. Weird, right?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/16/2009 11:13 AM   
wlemay08


 

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Status: offline 		Michael,

The tail losing authority is a good idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'll twist the tail rotor while holding the head like you said.

As for the servo, it's not that it's binding against the boom. I've only seen this once or twice, but it sounds like it's binding internally. It still moves, but there's a sort of "clacking" sound. This combined with the fact that it can't seem to decide where center is, like I was saying before, meaning I keep trimming it and adjusting the servo horn position.

I think I am just going to replace the servo, and maybe the gyro. I'm not doing any fancy 3D, I just want something that works!

One thing, does anyone know where I can get a new simulator cable?! Art-tech doesn't have them on the site, and I can't find anyone selling just that on ebay and such. I really need to get some simulator time in, especially with an unpredictable heli! I would but a cheapo one like the Esky on xheli, but I assume with a 4 CH you can't practice inverted, right?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/16/2009 1:24 PM   
gerry01



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From: CordobaCordoba, ARGENTINA
Status: offline 		You can fly inverted on the simulator with a 4-channel radio. It behaves as if the heli is in 3D mode, the motor has constant RPM and you control blade pitch. I've done it with my Esky Comanche radio. If you use Aerofly, try the Eco8 brushless model; you won't need to touch any settings, it will flight ok.

On the other side, I could not get the Art-tech 6-channel RC radio work like a 6 channel joystick (I think you just can't on windows), ¿Anyone has done this? ¿you need some specific drivers for windows?


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/16/2009 5:26 PM   
Michael211


 

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quote:

I think I am just going to replace the servo


Yeah, sounds like a good idea! But replace the servo 1st and see if that doesn't solve the problem... it's more likely that the servo has some bad teeth inside than the gyro being bad. The gyro is all solid-state electronics (no moving parts!), while the servo is full of tiny gears and a motor and all.

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/16/2009 5:34 PM   
Michael211


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gabe_tuft
As far as the pitch servo goes, no the pushrod is in the center of the horn. BUT, I noticed that the actual pitch arm wont extend any further and even though the servo can throw further, it won't affect the pitch. Weird, right?


Gabe, I think you may have mis-assembled something... loosen the set screws holding the pitch control rod (the wire inside the main shaft) to that pitch lever that the servo moves. Now the pitch control rod can move to full travel either way without the servo having to move... check with your pitch guage, can the pitch on the blades make it to +10 and -10? It should be able to easily. If that is ok then next use your pitch guage to set the blades at 0 degrees pitch and (with your motor unplugged so as not to power up the blades) turn your radio on and put the left stick at exactly half-stick and then tighten those set screws back down. You want your blades to be at 0 degrees pitch at exactly mid-stick. Now re-check your pitch range again and see if it isn't able to get +10 to -10.

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/16/2009 6:45 PM   
gabe_tuft


 

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Status: offline 		Got it!

Everything is good now.

New issue though. When I use my new 1800 maH 15C battery, I get wag and lots of it. If I put the stock 1300maH in there, no issues.

Any ideas? CG is good, I moved the RX.

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/17/2009 1:55 AM   
Michael211


 

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Status: offline 		Gabe, bad battery. It's not got enough power to get the headspeed up all the way, so the tail is running slower too and not as exact. Get another battery.

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/17/2009 5:17 AM   
gabe_tuft


 

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Status: offline 		Ok. Thanks Michael!

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 4/17/2009 5:18 AM   
gabe_tuft


 

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Status: offline 		Ok. Thanks Michael!

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/22/2009 6:07 PM   
tsteege



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Status: offline 		Anyone still flying the Falcon3D?  Hello out there......



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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/22/2009 6:37 PM   
Michael211


 

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Status: offline 		Yes, I was until just a few weeks ago at a late night club meeting at our flying field. I finally had another cyclic servo lock-up in flight and over to the right she rolled and into the ground. (sigh!) I probably had 150 or more flights on it with that servo before it locked, but this was the 2nd time to lose a cyclic servo and crash destroying my night-blades.

Last time I lost the cyclic servo I decided to purchase a stronger/faster Hitec servo for the rudder and moved the original Art-Tech rudder servo up to cyclic duty... this time, I just went ahead and purchased 2 new Hitec 65HB servos and will put them both on cyclic duty. That'll leave only the collective running an Art-Tech original servo, at least for now. I haven't been able to find a replacement set of night blades for it yet at a reasonable price though... I think I paid like $36 for that last pair (sans charger, which I already had on hand of course from the previous crash last summer when cyclic servo died). I can't remember where I bought them for that price though and can't find the receipt or e-mail receipt even darn'it. All my glowire survived the crash no problemo and the tail (and tube) appear untouched so I should be good to go there.

Anyhows, I still have to replace the cyclic servos, landing gear (broke one finally!), main shaft and possibly the tail shaft too. I got the parts in last week, but haven't had time to mess with it yet. I hope to get it back together and get some evening test flights in by next weekend.... then find those darned night-blades at whatever cost I guess so I can fly at night on the 4th of July! 

Also I just bought a 2nd Falcon 3d V2 (from looks of the head) off Ebay this morning for $55... either the ESC or the golden motor is messed up on it seller says, as it will run but then cuts out at hovering speeds. I'll check it out when it comes in, maybe swap parts with my Night Falcon 3D to determine where the fault lies, then fix and make the new one a day flier most likely. For $55 the price was just too right to pass up! 

How've you been doing? Still flying yours? 

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/22/2009 6:48 PM   
tsteege



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Status: offline 		Hey Michael,

Doing great thanks for asking.  Let me know if you need any parts, I have a ton for the Falcon.

I do still fly mine, I mainly use one I have for my son to train on, and the other I try out 3D stuff high up before I try it on my Trex600.  I would love to see some of your pics of your night bird, do you have any?  If so I have unlimited space on my website and you can post as many as you want to share.

Take care,

Terry


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/22/2009 7:12 PM   
Michael211


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Terry... I posted pics on this thread Spring 2007 (or 2008, I forget now) when I 1st got all the glowire stuff applied to my Falcon 3D for night flying. The camera did a lousy job in the dark though... I have a new much better digital camera now, so when I get it all back together again I'll try taking new pics and see if they come out better this time.

I'm also considering re-doing some of my glowire, make the canopy windshield yellow glowire (it's currently all in blue) and put some orange on the boom struts instead. So the canopy will be traced out in blue glowire, the windshield in yellow, the boom struts in orange and the boom spiral wrapped in red with both fins traced out in blue. Should look very nice in the night sky! 

After all, it's not a crash... it's a mandatory upgrade! Might as well make as many improvements as I can while she's down for "upgrades". LOL! 

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/27/2009 5:45 PM   
Michael211


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys... I received that new (used) Falcon I bought off Ebay. I've put it back together (the guy had removed the motor and ESC and most of the servo wiring was dangling loose) and checked it all out. Now, I bought it knowing that either the motor (original Art-Tech golden inrunner motor) or ESC (clear shrink wrapped version) was probably bad.... I did some playing around with the motor wires, and I can't get it to run counter-clockwise without alot of starting and stopping and clicking sounds. I can switch the wires around though and get it to run clockwise up to a fairly good speed with only some slight clicking and occassionally halting. When powered down, the motor pinion can be rotated and it turns smoothly. So what is this a sign of, bad motor or bad ESC? I was under the impression that when an ESC "goes" it "goes" all the way and is totally dead.... I'm of the opinion that the motor is most likely bad. I could use a 2nd opinion though.....

Last night I finally tore into my Night Falcon 3D and started replacing parts on it... I replaced both cyclic servos with new HiTec 65HB servos, replaced the broken skid (reattaching the light tube to the replacement skid with Goop), and started rebuilding the original V1 head as a V2 head (to eliminate those pesky z-bend links). I still haven't located the 290mm night-blades I need for it though.... but I hope to at least be able to test-hover it with day blades sometime this weekend.

Thanks!

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/29/2009 4:38 AM   
Michael211


 

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Status: offline 		Well, I didn't get to test-hover the Night Falcon 3D, but I did finally finish fixing it and setting up the pitch curves on it. Night fell before I was done with everything and I don't have another set of LED Night Blades for it yet... so all it's got is glowire on the heli's canopy and frame.

I had a Walker 36 CNC head on it, but the last crash (cyclic servo locked up) bent the blade axle and prior to that even I was considering switching back to my original Art-Tech V1 head to see if that CNC head had anything to do with the odd wobble the heli was doing... so, now seemed like as good a time as any to switch back to the original V1 head. However, I decided to 1st rebuild the V1 head as a V2 to get rid of the blasted z-bend links in it... pretty time consuming, maybe 3 hours total to get everything just right, but it's oh sooo much tighter than it was previously! Nice!

As far as I can tell I can't buy individual parts for the Walkera CNC head, so I may try to take the blade axle out and straighten it with a small finishing hammer I have... I've been successful before, straightening original Art-Tech blade axles (as long as they aren't too badly bend, you can usually tap them back to straightness with a very small finishing hammer and a hard straight surface (like a smooth brick... I use my fireplace for it, LOL!).

I spooled it up, with CF day blades on it, and nothing flew loose and the blades were very close to being in track... 2 screws out on the low blade brought it up to the level of the master blade. Sounded good and was pretty smooth, so guess I'll try a test hover with it in the morning.

Wish me luck!

ps. I ordered another 3200KV brushless outrunner motor for the day Falcon 3D... it'll be in in about 10 days or so. Even if the motor isn't the problem, these little outrunner motor's run so much cooler and have more pep to them so it'll still be worth it though I do hope a new motor is all it needs!

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/29/2009 8:57 PM   
critterz



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Status: offline 		Michael,

Good to hear you're still getting fun out of your Falcons. Mines has been sitting around doing nothing for the longest. I've got a lot of parts sitting around but needs new motor and batteries.

Your new bird issues does sound like the motor to me also. I would take it apart to see if there was some binding but it really doesn't' matter because you've got a new one coming. Keep in mind that the bad motor(if it's the motor) was putting a bit of stress on that ESC while it was trying to run so keep an eye on that esc.

Keep up the good work!

Leo

< Message edited by critterz -- 6/29/2009 8:58 PM >


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/29/2009 9:26 PM   
Michael211


 

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Status: offline 		Excellant brushless outrunner motor => KA450H Outrunner

Gives very good "pop" when you punch it, doesn't exceed the ratings of the Art-Tech 18amp ESC. Run's oh so much cooler than the gold Art-Tech motor, and can be had for around $20 USD w/s&h.

Pull the pinion off your gold Art-Tech motor, clean and sand the end of the outrunner motor's shaft, then mix up a little JB Weld and using a toothpick stick some inside the pinion then tap it onto the outrunner's shaft... holds strong!

Anybody know where I can get a set of 290mm LED CF main blades? Now that I finally have her ready to light up the night sky again, everybody it seems is out of stock on the 290 Tri-Light blades.

- Michael

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 6/30/2009 12:39 AM   
Michael211


 

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Status: offline 		Well test hover completed and it went really well after getting the tail trimmed out. Also, my chronic wobble is now gone! At 3 feet off the deck she hover's like a rock! WooHoo! [>:]

Now I just need those Tri-Light Night blades so I can go back to flying it late at night again.

- Michael

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