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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 2:43 PM   
a68fan


 

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Status: offline 		YIPEE!!!

It flys!!!! What a blast!!!!

BUT.....

I have a moderate vibration..... Main & tail rotor blades are balanced, main shaft is true, fly bar equal. All "seems" to be balanced & true... I did notice the very small dia. "wire" shaft protruding from under the gears bent a little... Straightened it up, no real effect...

Any suggestions??

Allen

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 3:51 PM   
Gary Morris



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Status: offline 		Some vibrations is to be expected with any helicopter, severe vibration is another story. If you hear what sounds like buzzing at speed then that's to much. As far as the pitch wire running through the center of the main shaft being bent that's normal as well and is no problem. You could recheck your balance on the blades and be sure they balance both span wise and CG wise. This takes a little more time but is worth the effort. The tail blades should also be balanced since they can cause vibrations. If it files ok and the gyro isn't effected by the vibration then you should be ok. Here's a webpage on how to balance the blades correctly. http://www.dream-models.com/eco/Blade_balancing.html As and after thought be sure your main blades are not too tight or too loose, if you hold your helicopter on it's side and shake it the blades should not move. If they are too tight this can cause vibrations since they won't be pulled out correctly when turning. Same goes for the tail blades they should be loose enough that you can move them with slight finger pressure.

Gary


< Message edited by Gary Morris -- 8/24/2006 3:56 PM >

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 4:37 PM   
poiyt


 

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Status: offline 		Gary, thanks again for the great info!! Quick question, another subject: I've seen in other posts that the Revo CP main blades will fit/work ok on the Falcon-
The Revo blades (part # NPS3002) are $17 and the OEM Falcon blades (ATS6016) are a bit higher at $24 per pair... do you have any thoughts/comments on this?
thanks again for the good info!


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 4:54 PM   
SkyUp



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Status: offline 		Hi Poiyt,

I purchased the Revo blades as a set to learn on (I wanted to save my original Falcon Blades for when I get a little better on the heli).
I found the Revo blades fit fine, the ones I got were a little thicker than the stock Falcon blades but not enough to cause any problems. I would guess they were about 1/64" thicker at the grip. The Revo blades are also about 1/2" shorter than the stock blades, but I have noticed no problem with lift what-so-ever.

I find them a good (less expensive) option and think they are great for getting aquanted with your new heli. I would imagine that it makes very little difference in hovering and ff, however, if I ever get to the point of wanting to do some 3D, I will likely use the stock blades or a CF blade.

Hope this helps.


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 5:17 PM   
poiyt


 

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Status: offline 		Skyup thanks and yes that helps!! I wanted to order an extra pair of blades when my F3D ships; just didn't want to be penny-wise/pound foolish etc.. but hey, 7 bucks is 7 bucks!
As to an extra battery, do you run the stock lipo? If so what kind of flt times are you getting? Since I'm a "less-weight-vs-longer-duration" kinda pilot on my BCP (which is very sensitive to weight) I was looking at ordering a 2nd stock batt also... but at 45 bucks a pop, there may be cheaper/less expensive alternatives out there (I'd like to stay around 1300 mAh to keep the weight down & performance up)... I've been using commonsense-rc lipos (3 now) and have been pleased with their cost/value ratio



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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 5:59 PM   
SkyUp



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Status: offline 		Poiyt,

I went for a 2200mAh 15C lipo ... I ordered it before I had my Falcon, so I didn't know that it wasn't going to fit. So my spare is way too big, but I've been practicing with it anyway ... strapped on below the battery shelf.

I have heard that the TP 2100 fits (barely), but it's a bit more than I wanted to spend right off.
I think there is 1.25" height clearance for whatever battery you use. Other than the height I would look at weight but not be overly concerned about the weight, as the Falcon has a lot of lift and actually needs quite a bit of weight up front to balance front to back.

I think the 1350mAh that comes stock is probably the most efficient weight/capacity ratio, I get the feeling that this heli has been pretty well thought out and I wouldn't be surprised at that. I also think that the flight time is probably about right using the stock battery since it's best to let the motor and ESC cool down after extended hovering. I've heard that the Falcon is actually much more efficient in 3D mode when the motor is at peak efficiency and higher RPM. You may therefor get longer flight times when flying around than in just hovering.

Just my thoughts.




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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 6:10 PM   
bjett80


 

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Status: offline 		As I sit here waiting for my new Falcon to ship, I wonder if I could ask any of you 'old timers' about 3d mode.

I understand the idle up/pitch conversion for 3d mode, but from a practical standpoint when do you normally
turn 3d mode on and when do you return to normal mode ?

Can you go to 3d mode from a low hover (with throttle at 70%) ?

Do you land in 3d mode and then switch 3d mode off ?

I need to 'study up' ... the new shipment arrives tomorrow at HL !

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 6:14 PM   
poiyt


 

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Status: offline 		Again, SkyUp, thanks!! That's what I'll do, then...just order another stock Art-tech lipo...since personally, I usually can't go for more that 6-9 minutes of fairly hard flying, because after that my nerves are usually shot! So I'll set her down, cool her off, and take a little break before the next battery! btw, did you mention about how many minutes you got on the stock batt? did you fly the stock lipo?
thanks


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 6:19 PM   
crxef9


 

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Status: offline 		does anyone know if hobby lobby actually test out each heli before shipping them out?

seems like there are some lemon out there?

anyone? and is everyone still flying with the stock parts included in the kit?

no videos?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 6:32 PM   
poiyt


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjett80

As I sit here waiting for my new Falcon to ship, I wonder if I could ask any of you 'old timers' about 3d mode.

I understand the idle up/pitch conversion for 3d mode, but from a practical standpoint when do you normally
turn 3d mode on and when do you return to normal mode ?

Can you go to 3d mode from a low hover (with throttle at 70%) ?

Do you land in 3d mode and then switch 3d mode off ?

I need to 'study up' ... the new shipment arrives tomorrow at HL !



bjett80, on my Blade CP (which I'm flying while waiting for my Falcon) I fly in idle-up 99% of the time (once I went idle-up, I never went back- man what a difference!!), and I'll usually hit the switch when Im on the ground spooled up to about 70% or so (just as she gets light on the skids).. however when landing, I usually come off idle-up at about 10 feet (or so) up; that way (for me anyway) she comes down for a softer landing... btw, Gary & others, is this the "3D" mode referred to on the Falcon?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 7:02 PM   
a68fan


 

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Makin' progress... rebalanced my blades, no real change..... loosened my grips a bit, seemed to help.... Model is easier to hover than my CP. gaining a more confidence. I like larger size.... This thing's a HOOT!!!

Much thanks all around!!!!

Allen


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 7:26 PM   
bjett80


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Poiyt !

That's what I needed to know.

I can tell you that '3d mode' on the Falcon is their term for 'idle up'.

I didn't realize that 70% throttle on the Falcon still had you sitting on the ground .... but I've had all
of about 5 minutes on mine before the ESC quit working.

It will be some time before I have the courage to flip that switch !

Barry

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 8:06 PM   
poiyt


 

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Status: offline 		Allen I'm TOO envious!!!! Hoping HL comes thru tomorrow!! thx for the update

-Jeff

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 8:21 PM   
evoIX


 

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Status: offline 		what do you mean the esc quit working?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 8:52 PM   
poiyt


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjett80

Thanks Poiyt !

That's what I needed to know.

I can tell you that '3d mode' on the Falcon is their term for 'idle up'.

I didn't realize that 70% throttle on the Falcon still had you sitting on the ground .... but I've had all
of about 5 minutes on mine before the ESC quit working.

It will be some time before I have the courage to flip that switch !

Barry



Barry, actually, it's like: "WHOA!!" a super thrill!! what many new pilots may not realize is that it's easier to do "normal" flying in I-U vs normal throttle, as the head speed becomes a) higher and b) constant (i.e., you control altitude by blade pitch iso by throttle).. this has the effect of making the BCP much smoother & stable (mine, anyway) and thus, easier to control... the main thing ya gotta remember about I-U is that when you want to descend, you CANNOT chop the throttle!! it'll slam the heli into the ground as the blades go into full reverse pitch..on the other hand, when you need to descend quickly (say, high winds, etc), you can ...but the way I got used to I-U was to simply secure the heli to the workbench, crank 'er up, then hit the I-U switch & observe what happens (important: in I-U, your blades have to have a perfectly neutral pitch... you should not feel moving air either over nor below the blades) ...but overall, once you go idle-up, you'll never go back... it's a blast!!

-Jeff



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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 8:54 PM   
poiyt


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: evoIX

what do you mean the esc quit working?




evoIX... I missed that... ESC quit??

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 11:23 PM   
Gary Morris



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Status: offline 		If your a rank beginner I would not think about switching to idle up or 3D mode!!!!! I can't stress this enough, if you do you will probably regret it as your picking up all the tiny pieces. If on the other hand you have soloed and can fly a CP helicopter you can switch to 3D mode as soon as you spool up and are at least at 50% throttle. If you switch to 3D mode the helicopter will probably spin around very fast and before you can recover you will loose it! Here is what I do, I spool up in normal, hover briefly to make sure all is well then as I start to climb out I switch to 3D mode. When I land I land either in 3D mode or switch to normal mode 10 ft up and gently reduce throttle and land. If it's windy and you switch to normal it will generally climb and when you reduce throttle it will be harder to control since the rotor speed will be reduced. If you have training gear on you might get away with switching to 3D while hovering but it will become much more sensitive and if you reduce throttle fast you will come down hard and fast. In most radios they have a normal, idle 1,2,3 and so on. Normal is generally used to spool up the rotors without causing too much strain on the gears. If you were to just switch to 3D mode from a stand still you will most likely crash and possibly strip the gears on the main shaft. The Falcon does not, repeat does not have a soft start feature like some speed controllers do, i.e., Kontronics, Align, etc. This is the reason for using normal mode and getting the rotors up to speed!

Gary


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/24/2006 11:51 PM   
poiyt


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Morris

If your a rank beginner I would not think about switching to idle up or 3D mode!!!!! I can't stress this enough, if you do you will probably regret it as your picking up all the tiny pieces. If on the other hand you have soloed and can fly a CP helicopter you can switch to 3D mode as soon as you spool up and are at least at 50% throttle. If you switch to 3D mode the helicopter will probably spin around very fast and before you can recover you will loose it! Here is what I do, I spool up in normal, hover briefly to make sure all is well then as I start to climb out I switch to 3D mode. When I land I land either in 3D mode or switch to normal mode 10 ft up and gently reduce throttle and land. If it's windy and you switch to normal it will generally climb and when you reduce throttle it will be harder to control since the rotor speed will be reduced. If you have training gear on you might get away with switching to 3D while hovering but it will become much more sensitive and if you reduce throttle fast you will come down hard and fast. In most radios they have a normal, idle 1,2,3 and so on. Normal is generally used to spool up the rotors without causing too much strain on the gears. If you were to just switch to 3D mode from a stand still you will most likely crash and possibly strip the gears on the main shaft. The Falcon does not, repeat does not have a soft start feature like some speed controllers do, i.e., Kontronics, Align, etc. This is the reason for using normal mode and getting the rotors up to speed!

Gary




Gary as usual you have a more eloquent way of saying it than I did... but I agree and will reiterate: new pilots should ONLY learn idleup AFTER they are comfortable with the machine and a fairly!! And obviously, while still on the pad, never go idleup until at least 50% throttle, and never, ever hit idleup from a blades-stop ...one thing I do now & then (that's kind of fun) is to spool up while on the pad, go idleup; and if everything looks good after a second or two, give her strong collective on a power climb-out.. she'll take off like a rocket!! (usually have to input a lot of left rudder though, something I hope I won't have to do on the Falcon) cheers, Jeff

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/25/2006 12:05 AM   
evoIX


 

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Status: offline 		erm bjett80 said he flew his heli until his esc quit working for him.... so i was asking did any of your esc screw up or blew up as well?

well i took the plunge and placed an order but god knows when it will arrive.

so guys no new pictures or videos of you hovering/flying etc?

and are you guys still on stock parts and tx? hows the tail holding up?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/25/2006 1:55 PM   
bjett80


 

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Status: offline 		Happy Birthday Choppersrule !

Here's hoping Hobby Lobby has a 'present' on it's way to you !

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/25/2006 2:13 PM   
bjett80


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: evoIX

what do you mean the esc quit working?


evoIX... I missed that... ESC quit??



The second day (and third hover) of my new Falcon was normal the first 30 seconds.

I poped it up about 1/2 a meter into a stable hover .... everything looked good .... and then it
just dropped back down.

When I returned to idle and then brought the throttle back up the heli would jump and grind. Further
throttle caused the motor to shut off completely.

Hand rotation of all gears showed no evidence of any mechanical binding. Occasionally I could give
the Falcon full throttle and it would spool up ... but anything other than full would cause the motor to
shut down again.

I'm speaking from ignorance here .... but I'm guessing the 'brushless' motor is a 3 phase motor with
the ESC providing the waveform sync for each phase. I'm thinking the jump and grinding action is the
result of one or more of the phases not getting it's proper 120 degree 'pulse' from the ESC.

It could be a motor failure .... but I'm thinking the loss of a stator winding would give the same symptoms
throughout the range of the throttle.


In any event, I put the Falcon in the mail Friday back to Hobby Lobby. Monday I received an email from
them giving shipping status on my replacement Falcon....(backordered ... but I appreciate them letting me
know ).

Maybe today will be the big day !


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/25/2006 2:25 PM   
evoIX


 

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Status: offline 		so did it fail because of bad product or did it fail because of your ignorance to check it or something? or some way u flew it that blew the thing?

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/25/2006 2:28 PM   
a68fan


 

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Status: offline 		Good day all!!!

Just a quick note to all you "Falconeers"..... I noticed last night that my ESC wires to the battery were HOT!! Fut=rther inspection revealed a cold, corroded solder joint @ the Deans plug. Furthe investigation shwed corrosion in the wires... After intensive cleaning, I was able to get a good solder joint, and after a test flight, wires were only warm....

Something you guys may want to check....

Allen

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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/25/2006 2:57 PM   
bjett80


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: evoIX

so did it fail because of bad product or did it fail because of your ignorance to check it or something? or some way u flew it that blew the thing?



evoIX,

I'm a newby with a couple of months on a HB FP. The pinnacle of exciting flying on the Falcon was to hover it 1/2 meter up .... and it failed
on the second battery .... probably 3 minutes total flight time.

So I'm guessing the way I flew it wasn't a factor.

If it failed because of my ignorance to check something, then it's going to fail again ... I'm sure you can disconnect a ESC, hook it up to a dummy load and scope it, but other than that I don't see any way to check it except to spin up the motor.

I think the odds point to a bad product in this case.


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RE: New Mini Electric is here the Falcon 3D!! - 8/25/2006 3:27 PM   
poiyt


 

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Status: offline 		sheesh guys, you're scaring me!! I have a Falcon on order (backordered AGAIN until 01 Sep, but who knows??) and seeing of these problems it makes me wonder (new model; have the bugs been worked out; Art-Tech trying to rush production to fill orders; a gear-driven tail vs beltdrive, etc) if I should be looking at a more tried-and-true equivalent model such as a Walkera 60 (all metal) or HB King.. any thoughts, guys??

thx
Jeff

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