Down in flames! (Full Version)

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Wez -> Down in flames! (6/30/2006 11:15:49 AM)

Just got my first helicopter (Walkera DF4) and it flew just great until it, on my third flight during a nice and stabile hover, suddenly lost power and dropped to the ground from about 1 meter. I tried to figure out why it died, but I could not find any problems so I gently gave some throttle, and it seemed very powerless. I checked everything once more and tried to start the engine again. Then I noticed some smoke coming out of the electronics box. Before I managed to unplug the battery, thick smoke came out of the box. The motors and servos were jittering and when I got the battery disconnected I noticed the total disaster.. the electronics box was totally destroyed... and so was my day. I am quite experienced in e-flight (have had some 12 e-planes) and I have never seen a piece of brand new equipment going up in smoke without any apparent reason on the first day. I have contacted the store from where I bought it, but I haven´t any hopes of getting a replacement since it is abroad. Does anyone know what could have caused this disaster?

Andreas



soneebee -> RE: Down in flames! (6/30/2006 11:27:42 AM)

try to get the 4-1 to get replaced.. it might be a problem with the box.. or the motors might be shorted frying the FET on the 4 -1 smoked it...



Wez -> RE: Down in flames! (6/30/2006 12:57:50 PM)

I just ordered a separate gyro since I have all the other equipment needed to build the electronics of standard parts. This will enable me to upgrade the helicopter (brushless?) more easily. But if I am lucky I will get the 4-1 replaced... it really worked fine until it caught on fire. I´ll have to put my depron Extra 300 project on hold for a moment... [&o] .

Andreas



Wez -> RE: Down in flames! (6/30/2006 3:17:42 PM)

Hi again,

I have tried to find some info on separate elecric heli setup and installation (reciever+2xesc+gyro) , but I can´t find any good sources of information.
Could anyone point me to some good sites or threads about this issue?

Andreas



credence -> RE: Down in flames! (6/30/2006 5:01:11 PM)

Hi wez, you'll need also either a computer radio with revo mixing (if you're using a cheap rate gyro) or a seperate mixer.


Otherwise, if you're using a heading hold gyro then you got no worries :).

As for setup, see this:
http://www.helihobby.com/html/separate_electronics.html



james199 -> RE: Down in flames! (6/30/2006 9:49:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wez

Hi again,

I have tried to find some info on separate elecric heli setup and installation (reciever+2xesc+gyro) , but I can´t find any good sources of information.
Could anyone point me to some good sites or threads about this issue?

Andreas



try the walkera 4 thread there is lots of info and help on hop up's [:D]



ultraviolet -> RE: Down in flames! (7/1/2006 6:37:28 AM)

My Walkera ESC on my 36 went up in smoke on the second day in the living room.

Root cause - Walkera helis are the worst made lowest quality heli available..... PERIOD.
( nicer than a Blade CP though..... lol )
I upgraded to a T Rex and have had a big smile on my face ever since.




Tyro - One who sets house on fire with chinese helicopter. [;)]



soneebee -> RE: Down in flames! (7/1/2006 6:46:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ultraviolet

My Walkera ESC on my 36 went up in smoke on the second day in the living room.

Root cause - Walkera helis are the worst made lowest quality heli available..... PERIOD.
( nicer than a Blade CP though..... lol )
I upgraded to a T Rex and have had a big smile on my face ever since.




Tyro - One who sets house on fire with chinese helicopter. [;)]



I guess your T-rex was set-up correctly



Wez -> RE: Down in flames! (7/1/2006 11:16:12 AM)

Hi,

Thanks for your replies.
I have a Hitec Eclipse 7 and from what I have read I believe that it will handle a separate setup. I have to study the topic some more.
I can´t understand why I haven´t begun flying helicopters before... the 15 minutes I got from the helicopter were great fun. I agree that Walkeras electronics aren´t that great and I hope that they will put some more effort in developing better quality and more failure tolerant electronics. As I said before I was very happy with the functionallity of the whole package, but that not comforting me right now when I learned that the warranty isn´t valid after using the helicopter... I could just as well have bought an empty DF4 frame and assembled the electronics myself...
BTW... if anyone have a broken 4-ch Walkera transmitter, channel 64 (35.040Mhz), I have one for sale :)

Andreas



ultraviolet -> RE: Down in flames! (7/1/2006 5:42:00 PM)

Soneebe, Yes the T - Rex is setup great....... lol.

Walkera products do allow a great deal of people to enjoy the pleasure
of helicopter flight. I simply believe that the products look a whole lot better
than they actually are. This is a very deceptive way of marketing a product.
They hint at performance and functionality, but they deliver flaming electronics,
random shutdowns, and flying parts.

Not much of a deal when you think about it...............quite the opposite. [;)]



ScratchBuild -> RE: Down in flames! (7/1/2006 8:33:42 PM)

Hi all,

I just do not understand why you all complain so much about the electronics on the walkera. If it is so bad, why do you guys not oreder the barebone kit and fit your own electronics. I surfed this site quite a while and my first conclusion from reading the df36 and df4 thread was that I should buy a DF36 barebone kit and fit my own electronics. According to the threads the walkera bodies are as good as they can get, it is just the electronics that is the problem. Fortunately I cannot even speak out about the walkera electronics because I have the following setup on my 36 at this stage:

Hitec Eclipse 7 (A great radio for its value)
JR RC610M reciever
2 * Bluebird BMS 371 servo's (Would not recommend, their gears strip for nothing)
2 * E-flite S75 servo's
Telebee HH Gyro with remote gain(This is te Gyro Align sells with their Heli's just rebranded)
Yes, I do have some walkera electronics[:D] the brushless and ESC is both walkera.

I am sure I am going to have years of glitch free flying, if I don't crash[:)]. I just wish I knew it when I bought my DF4.

Regards

Nic



ultraviolet -> RE: Down in flames! (7/2/2006 7:14:10 PM)

Scratchbuild, The Walkera helis are an excellent introduction to RC heli flight. They also are a
cheap way for a nitro flyer to experience E - Helis.

That said........

If you do an honest unbiased comparison of the Walkera helis VS T -Rex or MX 400 taking into
consideration several factors like :

Purchase price

QUALITY

performance

avg cost per crash

quality of upgrades available

serviceability / tunability

precision

durability


By the end of the comparison you will come to the conclusion that Walkera heli's are
probably not a good choice either electrically, mechanically, or value wise.

2c

I respect the individuals who, after accumulating numerous Walkera parts, have decided to
keep flying Walkera ' s . I however realized early on that the maintenance cost on a Walkera
is the same as a T - Rex. The so called package deals that Walkera offer are no deal at all.
Why buy just a Walkera airframe ? why not a T -Rex airframe ? The plastic sideframes for a
T -Rex sell for $ 17. All the Rex plastic parts are cheap but very high quality.

NO NEED FOR ALUMINUM PARTS !!!

Fly whatever suits your tastes. As long as your happy at the end of a flying day then thats
all that counts. [:D]



ScratchBuild -> RE: Down in flames! (7/3/2006 6:46:32 AM)

Hi ultraviolet,

I did not try to compare a T-Rex with the DF36. I merely cannot understand why everybody complains about the walkera electronics, and they still keep on buying them. Personally I would love to own a T-Rex 450SE, which I think is going to be my Christmas present to myself this year[:D]

I am glad you made the comparison of the total cost of flying between the two Heli's, so that I know I can go to the T-Rex and not nescessarily spend much more on the spares. But then again I think the SE's spares is much more expence than for example the HDE kit's spare parts.

Regards

Nic



soneebee -> RE: Down in flames! (7/3/2006 1:21:44 PM)

I agree ultraviolet.. the TREX is really a great heli and has parts that are cost wise cheaper than the nitros .. so on the electric heli standpoint its a very good investment.. The TREX is also easier to manuver and fly around.. the design and parts are also of good quality.. but parts cost 12- 25% more than the walkera's.. I know that on the quality of parts compared to walkera plastics the Align are almost the same.. I have compared them with ARK's and the plastics are almost of same material.and with the same quality of make... . it also breaks on bad landings and rough hits.. The only thing I find the Align to be ahead with the walkera helis kits are the availbility of after market upgrades.. alot of the companies invest on this heli heavily.. all CNC parts are made on the align's favor.. so I find this great and advantageous for the align..

of all kits the I find around that are of good quality make and design are the japanese made ones.. You can simply see it on the way they mold the parts.. it is of very high quality even the slightest curves are perfected without any of the strech marking of bad molding...



Wez -> RE: Down in flames! (7/5/2006 12:41:00 AM)

Hi again,

I have now converted my DF 4 to separate setup, I´m only waiting for the gyro. I couldn´t resist checking if my GWS300 motor would be powerful enough, so I had to try a few jumps without gyro... difficult, but not totally impossible and the motor seems to be enough for hovering at least.
I tested the original motor by connecting the battery directly to the motor, without load. The motor caughed a few times and stopped. Within a few seconds I could feel the battery connector getting hot (!) so I am 99,99999...% sure that the total meltdown started from a shorted main motor. However, I don´t understand how the motor got shorted, I dismantled the motor and couldn´t find any signs of damage which is strange considering the mayhem in the 4-1.
So to all of you with original DF 4´s out there: take the time to solder some fuses for the motors, this would have saved my helicopter!

Andreas



ScratchBuild -> RE: Down in flames! (7/5/2006 10:01:37 AM)

Hi wez

I had sort of the same thing this morning when I tested my motor directly from the battery. I had some advice from someone a while ago to run the motors in, in a cup of paraffin by coupling the battery direct to the motor and then let it run for about 5 minutes in the paraffin, let it dry out and then apply a drop of oil to the bushes as the paraffin dries these out. Boy, let me tell you I could not believe all the gunk that came out of that almost new motor and how smooth it was after that exersize.

With the second motor I also had the connecter heating up on me, I could not see any short but resoldered the wires to it. No problems after resoldering, luckily I took the battery off before any damage. I now have two very smooth running motors after the excersize.

I would recommend every body doing it, to improve the functioning of their motors.

Regards

Nic



ScratchBuild -> RE: Down in flames! (7/5/2006 5:54:46 PM)

Oh, yes I believe you do not know what Paraffin is, well it is similar to Kerosene which you use in a hurricane lamp.

Regards

Nic



Wez -> RE: Down in flames! (7/5/2006 10:26:23 PM)

Hello Nic,

Have never heard of using paraffin for running motors in. However, I have heard about running motors with low voltage for several hours, running the motor with a low voltage in water and also in water mixed with soap. I did this (the first of the three versions) to a Graupner 600 motor, but I couldn´t say if it had any effect. I should probably try the paraffin with my new motors if I don´t upgrade to a brushless... I have started to use brushless in my e-planes and I doubt that I will buy another brushed motor for a plane. The brushless motors are simply superior, half the weight, better efficiency and longer lifespan. And today a brushless package isn´t that much more expensive than a brushed.

BTW, I got the gyro today so now my separates setup is installed:

Hitec Eclipse 7
Jeti 5 channel reciever
Schulze 10/15 A controller for the main motor
GWS 5A controller for the tail motor
MS-024 gyro
GWS 300 main motor
Original tail motor

I tried it quickly today and noticed that I have some tuning to do, it was far from stabile.
What settings are you using with your Eclipse? I have tried RVMX +100 / +80 which kind of worked without the gyro...
I will continue tunig tomorrow...

Anyway... all the talk about T-REX and DF36 have made me consider spending my tax refund (in December) on a bigger helicopter with a brushless motor, but for now I will continue practicing with my DF4.

Andreas



Wez -> RE: Down in flames! (7/5/2006 11:38:59 PM)

Oh.. I noticed that you are using a HH gyro... then you probably won´t need to bother about revo settings?

Andreas



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