RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers  
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RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 6/28/2007 3:36:27 AM   
ServoShack


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 6/24/2007
From: Oviedo, FL, USA
Status: offline 		What's the difference between the blender and the inverted flat spin?

(in reply to AeroDave)
       Post #: 276

RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 6/28/2007 3:46:42 AM   
diamondave



Posts: 1673
Joined: 9/2/2004
From: marana, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		i believe a blender is a nose down more violent spin, kinda like snap rolling as you spin, where as a inverted spin has the ailerons neutralized and can be more graceful looking, and more flat, i could be wrong but thats my impression

(in reply to ServoShack)
       Post #: 277

RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 6/28/2007 3:57:28 AM   
israelg48


 

Posts: 191
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: woodbury, MN, USA
Status: offline 		the blender actually ends in an inverted flat spin. for a blender, point the plane down and start with left aileron (just for example's sake). so the plane is pointed down, rolling left, whenever you want to snap into a blender--and I say snap because that's what the fingers do, sort of snap around)--you start by giving a bit of right rudder so that the plane is now barrel rolling toward the ground, then finish up by snapping full right rudder (while adding power) and going from full left aileron to down elevator (and a bit of left aileron) in a semi-circle. in other words, you roll your thumb from full left aileron to almost full down elevator. I say almost because you will need some left aileron to control the flat spin. so what the plane will do a roll, then barrel roll, then snap into an inverted flat spin, whose circumference is up to you. Its not as hard as i might have made it sound . . .

(in reply to diamondave)
       Post #: 278

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 6/28/2007 4:03:53 AM   
ServoShack


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 6/24/2007
From: Oviedo, FL, USA
Status: offline 		thanks i think i got it now !

(in reply to israelg48)
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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 6/28/2007 1:23:09 PM   
diamondave



Posts: 1673
Joined: 9/2/2004
From: marana, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		ive been doing that for a long time and never thought it was a blender, but i snap into my flat spins like that cause it kinda helps get in nicely, even if a plane doenst want to do spins very well, if you snap them in i can usually get a nice one out of it, guess i have been doing blenders ad not knowing it

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       Post #: 280

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 6/28/2007 2:09:35 PM   
wifpwcf



Posts: 1160
Joined: 1/4/2006
From: sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pliebo

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same manuever. the one I saw was kinda like a wall, but pop up intp a knife edge from level flight. then it slides sideways from momentum in a hover attitude. I wish I could do it better, and I would submit a video. I could be wrong and it's a variation of a suicide slide I'm thinkin of.

hi mate here is my plane doing what you are talking about i think.the pic is right in the midel of level flight into a knife edge wall.its scarey & i only do it at flyins .
this is at a speed of around 40mph into a hover from a knife edge wall.
cheers glen

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/3/2007 7:04:52 AM   
mithrandir



Posts: 680
Joined: 7/16/2003
From: adelanto, CA, USA
Status: offline
I would suggest you work on several 3D maneuvers... spend part of each flight spending a little time on each..
First.. practice regular upright and inverted harriers... try not to get better at one then the other... give equal attention to upright AND inverted... you will likely discover that inverted is easier for the plane to do.. fairly typical... The next maneuver would be rollers... straight line and circles... practice both directions and left and right rolls... once you are comfortable doing harriers.... use that to transition to a hover and then a torque roll....
Entering a TR/Hover from a harrier is better then entering from a wall... this is because YOU have time to gradually transition from flying to hovering.... initially, TR'ing will be awkward... but... keep just a little bit of forward movement in a very steep Harrier, and it will resist torking around....once you are hand with hovering, transition to a TR. this can be done gradually if when you pull out vertically from a hover, you intentionally roll left as you climb out... over time, roll slower and pul out slower until you are crawling out of the hover and the plane rolls of its own accord. After all this... you are ready to bring it all together for rolling harriers....
One way to learn rolling harriers is to simply do rolling circles and pull back on the throttle. You may want low rate aileron.. or mid rate aileron as a fast roll while learning rolling harriers is harder... and slow rolling hariers look better to me anyway....

But... before all of this.... get two of these.....
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Brooks

Ok, I have now read this thread from beginning to end. Lots of good stuff in there.

Right now I just want to take a step back: Can someone suggest a progression of manouveres to start with? At the moment I can do the usual loops, hammerheads, snaps, spins, inverted, knife edge, etc. Where to from here? I was thinking slow rolls next. Is it worth learing rolling circles at flight speed before harriers etc? Would you recommend harriers before hovering etc?

I'm sure I'll figure it out anyway but just wondered if people had any advice.

Thanks

David



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       Post #: 282

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/5/2007 12:38:04 AM   
parkguy



Posts: 36
Joined: 10/29/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I just got into 3D again and I have been practicing on the sims I also have a couple 3D planes im using to learn on but want to master the moves on a sim first this thread is full of great information!

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(in reply to bubbagates)
       Post #: 283

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/5/2007 2:53:22 AM   
diamondave



Posts: 1673
Joined: 9/2/2004
From: marana, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		thats why i love this site

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/5/2007 12:49:13 PM   
chuck993


 

Posts: 343
Joined: 1/17/2007
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I've been looking thru this thread for awhile, is there any info on how to do the basic Knife Edge? I am using a Ultra Stick 60, with flaps and aielerons and mixing.

(in reply to matt3D)
       Post #: 285

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/11/2007 11:28:23 PM   
DLEVETT


 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: GUELPH, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Bubbagates, thanks for putting this thread together. I,m an old guy and find myself really itching to get out and try this type of flying. Ya just gotta love the internet and forums like RCUniverse for getting this kind of info out to the masses.

thx Dave

(in reply to chuck993)
       Post #: 286

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2007 12:22:37 AM   
diamondave



Posts: 1673
Joined: 9/2/2004
From: marana, AZ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chuck993

I've been looking thru this thread for awhile, is there any info on how to do the basic Knife Edge? I am using a Ultra Stick 60, with flaps and aielerons and mixing.


i dont use mixing for my knife edge, you can but it would be ele, and some ail to hold the correct position, you dont want to use flaps or anything like that, i roll to one side, i go left from a right to left pattern, it feels more comfortable to me that way, you can do it either way, having the canopy towards you is more comfortable, you can go the other way if you like, once you get it down i have done big figure eights in a knife edge, kinda cool looking but tricky to hold it in as you go around a cirlce, anyway, roll to one side and stop it there, feed in opposite rudder, if you roll left, you will need right rudder to hold the plane level, the more rudder you give the more it will pull either towards the gear or canopy, planes are different, mine goes to the gear with more rudder, so i add up ele to keep it from tucking, you also may need to give a little left aileron because the rudder may roll it back to level, maybe someone else can explain it better, i am not sure about the ultra stick for doing it either, it may be a difficult plane to learn it on, your rudder may not be enough and it may really want to level out with rudder input...try it on a sim if you have one

(in reply to chuck993)
       Post #: 287

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2007 3:17:21 AM   
bubbagates



Posts: 8162
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Elizabethtown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Folks,

Since I'm not much of a 3D person (yes I know I started the thread but only because I thought it was pretty worth while) and I just had a suggestion via email I think is pretty good so I'll share it with everyone in hopes we can supply this info as well

Please post anything you do to your plane to trim it for the best 3d flight it can possibly do. Ideas would be along the lines of control throw surface deflection, KE mixing, Geometery and things like that. As far as I know there is not really much actual triming to do but anything would be worth while that you may do to help you fly 3D

Thanks....

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2007 3:47:33 AM   
AirWizard



Posts: 982
Joined: 4/23/2004
From: Coffeyville, KS,
Status: offline 		I think one of the most important trimming issues is to trim for neutral when inverted, in other words when flying inverted the plane should fly hands off.

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2007 4:05:37 AM   
diamondave



Posts: 1673
Joined: 9/2/2004
From: marana, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		i agree with that, it sets the cg just back far enough to do 3d well and still be managable for landings and things like that, as far as throw, alot of people say all you can get, realistically you can get away with less until you get into serious slow high alpha flight, i hardly ever have my sticks maxed out for most flying, in fact i found out early on when learning how to hover and troll, i was over correcting, once i started making less movements and let the plane do more on its own, it got easier imo, so maxed out throws arent always a good thing, you can try moves and if you think you need more, than adjust either radio or arm length, and expo is a good thing when you do have alot of throw, keeps it feeling softer around center, that way you dont get too crazy with movements when you dont want to, another thing for some reason almost all of my planes needed more right thrust, could be a personal thing, but if you are hovering and find you are putting alot of right rudder in, check it out, because it keeps you from trolling if you are always giving lots of rudder input, try and do some strait up vertical lines and see if it tracks, once i added right thrust it helped alot in hovers, trolls, and therefor many other any manuevers

(in reply to AirWizard)