RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers  
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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2006 6:27:55 AM   
boosted180


 

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i have a quick question about the wall. when i pull full up elevator, one wing always drops and i'd always have to quickly correct with rudder. i cannot get my edge 540 to do a "clean" wall manuver. why does it do this? i dont think it's a lateral balance problem or a problem of unmatched elevator halves, b/c sometimes it'll drop the right wing other times it'll drop the left wing.

i have the same problem doing the waterfall. basically any manuver that requires hard full elevator, the plane will not stay "straight" and would require lots of rudder correction. and it just doesnt look "clean".

any suggestions?

thanks.

(in reply to whaturi)
       Post #: 51

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2006 9:45:12 AM   
xtdsm


 

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I am at the same boat, but mine is GP Yak

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2006 12:28:39 PM   
bubbagates



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quote:

ORIGINAL: boosted180

i have a quick question about the wall. when i pull full up elevator, one wing always drops and i'd always have to quickly correct with rudder. i cannot get my edge 540 to do a "clean" wall manuver. why does it do this? i dont think it's a lateral balance problem or a problem of unmatched elevator halves, b/c sometimes it'll drop the right wing other times it'll drop the left wing.

i have the same problem doing the waterfall. basically any manuver that requires hard full elevator, the plane will not stay "straight" and would require lots of rudder correction. and it just doesnt look "clean".

any suggestions?

thanks.

Make sure the elevators are moving exactly the same amount at exactly the same time.

An easy way to see this is get to spring type clothes pins and 2 very straight pieces of balsa sticks roughly 20 inches long. Now glue the sticks to the clothes pins. Clip the clothes pins to each elevator and angle them so they meet right behind the rudder. It's important that you clip the pins to the same spot on each elevator halve.

Now slowly move the elevators from full down to full up and watch the sticks. They should remain lined up the whole way through the travel.

If they do then verify lateral balance is OK and if both of those are fine then it could be you have too little throw. Too little throw will not allow the wing to get past the stall point quickly. CG can also effect this to a degree. You could be too nose heavy. The GP Yak seems to have this issue when set to the book CG. Check over in the big CG Yak forum, they did discuss it in there.

Another thing I have seen is entering the wall with the wings not level, huge amounts of aileron or rudder trim or even engine thrust.

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       Post #: 53

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2006 1:48:02 PM   
shakes268



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Waterfalls are going to do that to some extent, because you're goosing the throttle at a stalled position. The engine torque is taking over and you definitely have to correct the tail quite a bit as well as some aileron.

quote:

ORIGINAL: boosted180

i have a quick question about the wall. when i pull full up elevator, one wing always drops and i'd always have to quickly correct with rudder. i cannot get my edge 540 to do a "clean" wall manuver. why does it do this? i dont think it's a lateral balance problem or a problem of unmatched elevator halves, b/c sometimes it'll drop the right wing other times it'll drop the left wing.

i have the same problem doing the waterfall. basically any manuver that requires hard full elevator, the plane will not stay "straight" and would require lots of rudder correction. and it just doesnt look "clean".

any suggestions?

thanks.


(in reply to boosted180)
       Post #: 54

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/12/2006 1:51:54 PM   
bubbagates



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shakes is correct. I saw the post but did not read it all the way through so excuse my earlier post about checking stuff,

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/19/2006 4:17:18 AM   
mr.scale



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exellent thread guys I was waiting for something like this for a long time!!! now can anyone tell me on how to do a basic hover (set up,cg,and stuff)
I'm currently fying a Ultra R/c Giles202 29% and yes its a awesome plane for me but i like to learn a lot more on these manouvers.
thanks
fernando

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/22/2006 7:43:37 AM   
akschu



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There is one thing I'm trying to do that I can't quite figure out. I don't know the name, but it is a spin where the plane is on it's side, wings are near vertical, but it's falling with the tail rotating around the fuse on the throttle. Anyone know what that is called?

(in reply to mr.scale)
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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/22/2006 8:10:30 AM   
akschu



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Nevermind, I see how to do it now, full down elevator with left aileron and rudder, or full up elevator with left aileron and right rudder. Seems like the better the entry to the spin is, the better the spin looks.

So doing that to blender, to flat spin, to hover would look cool. I'll work on that.....

(in reply to akschu)
       Post #: 58

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/22/2006 12:32:58 PM   
MikeEast



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AKSCHU,
Sounds like you are talking about a knife edge spin. I think its posted earlier in the thread.


Mr. Scale,
Hovering is something you really can't "teach". You just stand the plane up on its tail and do it.. I will give you some tips ( in my simple minded terms) though.
1. You need the plane a little on the tailheavy side, not much, just a little. If the plane is constantly wanting to fall forward or back then you probably need to move the cg back some or tweek the engine thrust. However, you have to compromise on whether you want the plane to "fly" well or hover well.
2. You need a LOT of throw, especially if you are a beginner,,, 45° ++. The less experienced you are the more elevator and rudder throw you will need to get yourself out of trouble. As you improve you need less throw because you make fewer mistakes that require big corrections.
3. Max Aileron throw and ailerons that come in as close to the wing root as possible are key. You need LOTS of throw to stop the plane from torque rolling. You need to ailerons in close to the root so they get the maximum amount of prop was across them. If your ailerons are not in the prop wash they wont be effective in a hover. This holds true for most all 3D maneuvers since the plane is stalled in most 3D manuevers so you are always relying on thrust and propwash to fly.
4. You need enough power to pull out of a hover with significant authority. You should be able to hover the plane at 1/2 throttle or less. If you are at more than 1/2 throttle you may not have enough reserve power to yank the plane back upright if you get in trouble. This is critical to being able to safely learn to hover. If you are underpowered and get the plane into an awkward attitude and cannot pull out, you run a significant risk of losing control and crashing.
5. If the airplane is belly in, I personally key on the tail. TO rudder correct with the belly facing you, you simply push the rudder stick in the direction you want the tail to go. IF the canopys facing you its obvious what you do with the rudder, just correct normally.
6. To keep the plane from torque rolling, do not stand the plane straight up, leave the nose slightly less than vertical. Maybe 80 degrees or so. As soon as the plane stands up vertically it is going to want to torque roll. To stop this you need big aileron throws as mentioned above. Biplanes are going to torque roll easier and since they have a shorter wingspan relative to their size, they will torque roll really fast almost immediately.

< Message edited by MikeEast -- 7/22/2006 2:03:56 PM >


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(in reply to akschu)
       Post #: 59

RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/22/2006 12:42:41 PM   
bubbagates



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quote:

Biplanes are going to torque roll easier and since they have a shorter wingspan relative to their size, they will torque roll really fast almost immediately.


You are dead on as usual on this one. My Ultimate if I stand it straight up with TQ instantly and since an Ultimate does everything that is gyroscopic it gets haulin around

To me there is nothing like a big bipe sitting on it's tail slowly TQ'ing around. It's the view that 2 wings give that I like so much .

I think we have enough information in here to create a Word document and PDF file. Once I get back from flying, I'm leaving right now, I start assembling this thread into those files and put them in a place for all to get to.

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Bill James
Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/27/2006 3:42:46 AM   
mr.scale



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thanks mikeEast I will try it this weekend
Fernando

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/28/2006 9:07:58 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Another entry for the KE spin, but it works better for the larger planes with more tail areas.

Go vertical into a hammerhead. Carry just a touch of throttle so you won't make a full stop at the top. Just before the stall at the top go to max high rate rudder either direction. As the plane rotates to the horizontal on the rudder input, reverse the rudder to the top, add full up or down high rate elevator, depending on the desired direction of rotation. Hold the top rudder and max elevator, maintain neutral ailerons and throw power at it to get the rotation going. Use ailerons to counter roll coupling.

Bubba, just found this thread for the first time, what a great idea!!

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/28/2006 2:53:59 PM   
AeroDave



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Right. I find I have to really be on the ailerons to keep the wings vertical. This entry looks really clean and controlled.


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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/29/2006 4:32:53 AM   
mr.scale



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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 7/29/2006 8:07:08 AM   
patzane