RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (Full Version)

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Tired Old Man -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 6:02:26 PM)

Mike,

I think the reason there are less "higher up" posts in here at the moment is because you are doing a great job. The folks are asking questions and you're answering them with useful and understandable information that helps them translate the info into actions. That probably leaves you a little busier than you want, but the price of success does come a little high sometimes[;)]

Another reason is because this thread gets buried back in the pages quite often and gets brushed by when someone is quickly scanning the first page. I'm as bad as many in that I don't "bookmark" the page to make it easier to locate. Until it becomes a "sticky" bookmarking will be the fastest way to return to this thread. It's a great thread and contains extreme amounts of good and useful information for those interested in 3D.

BTW, you can 3D better than I can anyway[:D] Keep up the great work!

Pat



bubbagates -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 6:36:39 PM)

I just got the approval for the sticky so now it is [:D]



bubbagates -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 6:44:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silversurfer

Mike,

I think the reason there are less "higher up" posts in here at the moment is because you are doing a great job. The folks are asking questions and you're answering them with useful and understandable information that helps them translate the info into actions. That probably leaves you a little busier than you want, but the price of success does come a little high sometimes[;)]

Another reason is because this thread gets buried back in the pages quite often and gets brushed by when someone is quickly scanning the first page. I'm as bad as many in that I don't "bookmark" the page to make it easier to locate. Until it becomes a "sticky" bookmarking will be the fastest way to return to this thread. It's a great thread and contains extreme amounts of good and useful information for those interested in 3D.

BTW, you can 3D better than I can anyway[:D] Keep up the great work!

Pat


Pat,

I could not have said it better...very well put as usual



closetguy -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 6:44:42 PM)

great thread,never could do a knife edge spin, but after reading a few post's in here, i can do it everytime with the double vision, nothing looks better than a big bipe in a knife edge spin.
this thead should have it's own fourm, so it does not get buried.keep a good thing going.
ENJOY!



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 7:05:48 PM)

EXCELLENT! I am glad it is finally going to stick to the top!!

Here is a little video I put together on AFPD last night trying to learn how to use the FRAPS video capture software. Its a pretty decent video, but the actual video quality I can improve a good bit. My intentions now that I have figured out how to capture sim video is to put a little clip of each maneuver in the different postings here to demonstrate how it should look. I guess you saw this video on the other site silversurfer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvHGhjW8CHo

We are working on getting some good quality real life video footage as well, but good vid cameras are not cheap. Eventually I will get it, I have to have it for some reviews I will be doing anyway. The sim is a good representation but its really not as comfortable as doing it in 3 dimensions where depth perception helps to judge what the plane is doing.

Look back at the maneuver descriptions. I will be adding some of those clips shortly.[8D]



Ernie Misner -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 10:55:22 PM)

When doing a rolling harrier, how in the world do you get the throttle blips in while going so fast between all the other movements? Is this a timing thing that can be practiced? (like "right rudder & throttle blip, down ele, left rudder & throttle blip", up ele)

Thanks again,

Ernie



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 10:56:33 PM)

THERE ARE NOW VIDEO CLIPS INCLUDED WITH ALL OF THE MANEUVER DESCRIPTIONS!!!

PLEASE GO BACK AND CHECK EM OUT!!!!!



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 11:19:38 PM)

Ernie, its really something that just takes a ridiculous amount of practice and feel. If you are doing the maneuver correctly the throttle is controlling the altitude of the planes path. If you are in a true harrier, the plane will noe glide but will immediately begin to sink if you get out of the throttle. The trick is to get a feel for what the plane is doing so that you can put the plane where you want it. One of the hardest things in an already incredibly challengine maneuver to perfect is getting a controlled sink. I like to get the plane coming straight down the runway and then pulse the throttle so that it sinks, and I catch it, sinks a little more and I catch it,,, until it isjust a few feet off the ground rolling directly in front of me as close as I dare to bring it in.. I dont really think about it while I am flying but I would say that I am bumping the throttle either when the plane is inverted or upright. But its happening so fast that its really hard to say exactly. You just have to feel it.

There are no shortcuts for learning the rolling harrier. I sat in front of the TV for WEEKS just trying to get the Roll right and hold... Left Rudder, Down Elevator, Right Rudder, Up Elevator... over and over and over...
Its tough, but MAN it feels great when you get it mastered. WELL worth the effort to learn. It will take all of your skills to a new level if you can figure it out. The rudder mystery will no longer be a mystery. Looks really cool too!![8D]



diamondave -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 11:55:54 PM)

the rolling harrier is the move i want to do, i can do harrier circles i guess you call em, and i can adjust throttle and bring them down low for a pass, i found the more throttle, the less ele, and visa versa, inverted are easier, less wing rock, i have been trying to start one way, inverted say, go for a bit, then flip it over to upright harrier for a bit, then back, and so on, just cant continue the move, i need to stay one way or the other for a bit...i am trying though, i heard maybe adjusting the aileron so you can hold it all the way and not have it roll too fast, thats one less adjustment to make i guess, ever try that mike?



Ernie Misner -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/26/2006 11:58:07 PM)

>>> There are no shortcuts for learning the rolling harrier. I sat in front of the TV for WEEKS just trying to get the Roll right and hold... Left Rudder, Down Elevator, Right Rudder, Up Elevator... over and over and over... >>>

I notice that you are thinking in terms of "knife edge to knife edge" (first input is rudder) instead of upright to inverted where the first input might be up ele.

Thanks,

Ernie




bubbagates -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/27/2006 12:09:14 AM)

Mike,

If I remember correctly, I think you can have AFPD display the radio. This might be helpful for the aspiring 3D pilot so that they can see the stick positions.

Again, I may be wrong on getting the radio to display though.

Once again you have come through with the videos, very well done.



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/27/2006 12:09:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

>>> There are no shortcuts for learning the rolling harrier. I sat in front of the TV for WEEKS just trying to get the Roll right and hold... Left Rudder, Down Elevator, Right Rudder, Up Elevator... over and over and over... >>>

I notice that you are thinking in terms of "knife edge to knife edge" (first input is rudder) instead of upright to inverted where the first input might be up ele.

Thanks,

Ernie





Oh definitely. If you are starting a rolling harrier from a harrier (upright or inverted) then the 1st input as you initiate the roll will be rudder. I have found that its better to start with the nose up at a high angle and wait until the plane is right on knife edge to input the rudder initially. If you input rudder too early you are going to snap somewhat. You want to transition from one input to the other with VERY little overlap. There is a little but its not much. This is critical, especially when you get a big plane down low. You cannot afford to make mistakes. Once you get the thing rolling there is nothing to it. But the entry needs to be right or you are going to flounder around a lot on the 1st rotation.

It wont be long and you will look back and wonder why it was so hard to figure out. Once you get it its easy to do,,,, ONCE you get it.[;)]



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/27/2006 12:11:29 AM)

Bill,
I have not figured that out yet. You are right I am going to be MAD that I did not find it before I did all that work!!!![:@]

It took me about 4 hours to put those clips together!! UGH!!

If its there I will go back and redo them one at a time. Might take a couple of days.

Also, The video quality is "OK" but not great I realize, but its a start. If I figure out a way to capture in a higher resolution I will again replace all of the clips.

Mike



bubbagates -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/27/2006 12:21:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeEast

Bill,
I have not figured that out yet. You are right I am going to be MAD that I did not find it before I did all that work!!!![:@]

It took me about 4 hours to put those clips together!! UGH!!

If its there I will go back and redo them one at a time. Might take a couple of days.

Also, The video quality is "OK" but not great I realize, but its a start. If I figure out a way to capture in a higher resolution I will again replace all of the clips.

Mike



Again, I could be wrong. I replced my PC recently and have not re-installed AFPD yet so. It's really no big deal but I just thought it would be a little easier on those, like me, who are using yours and everyone elses tips....



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/27/2006 2:30:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbagates


quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeEast

Bill,
I have not figured that out yet. You are right I am going to be MAD that I did not find it before I did all that work!!!![:@]

It took me about 4 hours to put those clips together!! UGH!!

If its there I will go back and redo them one at a time. Might take a couple of days.

Also, The video quality is "OK" but not great I realize, but its a start. If I figure out a way to capture in a higher resolution I will again replace all of the clips.

Mike





Again, I could be wrong. I replced my PC recently and have not re-installed AFPD yet so. It's really no big deal but I just thought it would be a little easier on those, like me, who are using yours and everyone elses tips....


I took another look and even read the manual and it is not there. I am going to see if there is a downloadable upgrade function that will allow it. I know that G3 has that feature.



paul7194 -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/27/2006 1:25:08 PM)

Hey, thanks for the video clips. I went back and viewed all of them and they are going to help me a lot toward leaning 3D. I love this thread.




Tired Old Man -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/29/2006 7:05:02 AM)

It's great to see that this thread has become a "sticky". Wonderful news.

I'd like to add something about the Rolling Harrier that's pretty useful and goes a few steps beyond the simulator. Get a 3D Foamy and beat it up in real Rolling Harrier flying practice!! No, it's not the same as that larger gasser or glow plane that you fly but the moves are the same. Plus you develop a better feel of "depth" and altitude than you do with a sim. When it hits the ground, and it will, a little foam safe CA and you're back in the air practicing again in a few minutes

It doesn't have to be expensive or flamboyant. A simple Tribute or Fancy Foam whatever can get you going the right direction with the right moves. Practice for a week or two a little every day with a foamy and then go out to the field and you won't believe how much better your timing will be with your regular plane. I promise!



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/29/2006 10:51:06 AM)

You are SO right! I learned to rolling harrier with a fancy foam biplane and on the sim! I tore up about 10 of them learning to hover and do the RH. Nice thing is, they cost about $400 to build RTF initially. But if you destroy the plane its a $35 investment to replace the entire airframe and you can be back in the air in just a few hours of re assemble. And that is only after you have reglued the arframe back together so many times with odorless CA or Gorilla Glue that it is too heavy to fly correctly anymore. I actually had a buddy that called his foamy "gluey"!![:D]



wildchild45177 -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/30/2006 2:42:51 AM)

I can do a loop, and I can do a roll. I can do knife edge, and a snap. Now thanks to reading this thread, and with alot of practice I'll be doing more tricks soon.

Thanks Bob



wildchild45177 -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/30/2006 2:48:55 AM)

Silversurfer, Sounds like a plan. I think I'll get a foamy for practice, sure would hate to plant my 1/4 scale.

Bob



matt3D -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/31/2006 4:23:00 AM)

AFPD does not have the option where you can show the radio in the game. [;)]



Misspeld -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/31/2006 7:14:53 AM)

This is a great thread. It seems like alot of you are flying bigger planes and I hear they are better for 3D. I hope I can afford an 80in. 50cc plane soon. However, I've managed to learn to hover, harrier, and TR with a 40 size GP Dazzler. It's not pretty, but it's what I have.
My tip for the new hoverer is to just fly straight up with the canopy to you. Then do it slower. Then slower. When it's starts to get hard to keep it straight, your getting down to stall speed and starting to hover. You'll notice you have to start useing right aileron at this point, and alot of rudder. Then it's just practice, practice, practice. Before long you'll stop gaining altitude. Then you get brave and low, then you repair you're plane and do it some more. At least thats the way I did it.

P.S. I enlarged the rudder on my Dazzler, that really helped it alot, but the twist is much easyer to hover, the u-can-do is even easyer, and the flip 3D is down right easy.(after learning on the Dazzler)
I've got an OMP Kat V2 to tryout this weekend so maby i can start to learn rolling harriers.

Later,
Dave



Ernie Misner -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (8/31/2006 9:42:47 PM)

Cool advise Dave, thanks. Let us know how you like the V2 Kat. My friend loves the origional Kats and still buys them from ebay.

Ernie



MikeEast -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (9/1/2006 3:47:13 AM)

I just added a new Snap Roll video on page one. It has some closeup slow motion video so that you can see the inputs pretty clearly. I captured this video at a higher resolution so it is a little clearer than the others. Its also a different aspect ratio whuch seemed to help. See what you think!?

Also, before i get hammered,[:D] I really did not technically enter the inverted negative snap correctly on the slow motion view. I accidentally lead with the ailerons just a split second before elevator and rudder. None the less, for beginners purposes it was simultaneous and the plane did exhibit a negative snap condition so it gets the point across. It was a lot of work to get the video done and I didnt catch it until after I had posted the video[8|]



Chrispeace -> RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers (9/1/2006 3:04:11 PM)

I'm so enjoying this thread Mike. There will be a religion named after you soon! Slightly different tack. would you have a gander at the thread link below and perhaps offer your opinion.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4530826/anchors_4696852/mpage_3/key_/anchor/tm.htm#4696852

Thanks once again, I fly alone (not from choice - just lucky!) and really appreciate the great support you are giving us all here.

Chris



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